- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: Delete all except Category:Buddhism and Islam. Timrollpickering (Talk) 19:56, 27 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
- Propose deleting Category:European-American people by religion
- Propose deleting Category:Native American Judaism
- Propose deleting Category:Hispanic and Latino Islam
- Propose deleting Category:Buddhism and Islam
- Propose deleting Category:African-American Buddhism
- Propose deleting Category:Asian-American people by religion
- Additions:
- Propose deleting Category:African-American Buddhists
- Propose deleting Category:Asian-American Muslims
- Propose deleting Category:Hispanic and Latino Muslims
- Propose deleting Category:Native American Jews
Editor RainbowSilver2ndBackup is on a category creating spree for the past month. These are a few of the remaining categories with an intersection of race, religion, ethnicity and nationality. I advised the editor about categorization policy, including WP:EGRS, and asked that she/he slow down but he/she has moved on to other category areas that are probably due for some investigation from experienced editors (look at some creative film genres--Category:Legal horror films and Category:Religious horror comedy films?). There are no corresponding articles for these combinations of race and religion and some categories (like Category:European-American Christians and Category:Asian-American Buddhists) might involve tagging every biography with a category regarding religion. And there is not even an ethnicity called "European-American" which to me is just a code term for "white".
Also I also advocating deleting the redirects Category:White American Muslims, Category:Hispanic and Latino Christians, Category:African-American Orthodox Christians, Category:African-American Orthodox Christianity.
Just so you can see what a problem this has become, here are some categories that have already been tagged as empty categories and are on their way to being deleted. Since some have already been deleted and recreated, I think we need to get this editor involved in discussion at CfD so that they can understand how categorization and deletion works at Wikipedia: Category:European-American Roman Catholics Category:European-American Christians, Category:European American Christianity, Category:European-American Eastern Orthodox Christians, Category:European-American Eastern Orthodoxy, Category:European Americans and religion Category:European-American Muslims, Category:White American Islam, Category:African-American Eastern Orthodox Christians, Category:African-American Eastern Orthodoxy, Category:Native American Islam, Category:Native American Muslims, Category:Hispanic and Latino American Roman Catholics, Category:Hispanic and Latino Amercian Roman Catholicism, Category:Hispanic and Latino American Christians, Category:Hispanic and Latino American Christianity, Category:Hispanic and Latino Roman Catholics, Category:Hispanic and Latino Roman Catholicism, Category:Hispanic and Latino American Muslims, Category:Asian-American Buddhism, Category:Asian-American Buddhists and Category:Asian-American Catholics.
To be honest, I don't know if I have listed every category combining race and religion but it's late and I got tired chasing down all of their category contributions. There are quite a lot of them. Personally, I wouldn't mind if some of the CfD regulars vote to keep some of these categories, I'm more concerned with slowing RainbowSilver2ndBackup down. We've had other prolific category creators in the 5 years I've been here who have ended up requiring a lot of clean-up. Liz Read! Talk! 04:21, 20 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
- Question @Liz: do you also consider the following subcategories to be part of this nomination? Category:Native American Jews, which you tagged, Category:African-American Buddhists, Category:Asian-American Muslims and Category:Hispanic and Latino Muslims, which I tagged? Place Clichy (talk) 06:01, 20 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
- I'm on a phone right now which makes editing a challenge so I will check this out when I get back to my computer. Liz Read! Talk! 20:55, 20 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks, Place Clichy, for tagging those other categories. I've added them to the list. I also really appreciate you fixing the tag links to this discussion. Apparently my laptop clock logged them in on Dec. 19, not the 20th. I had terrible problems with Twinkle and this nomination, all kinds of error messages. Thanks for the help. Liz Read! Talk! 23:10, 20 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete all per nom except Category:Buddhism and Islam per Marcocapelle below. These are intersections of ethnicity and religion, for which the guideline at WP:OCEGRS is clear: these
subcategories should only be created where that combination is itself recognized as a distinct and unique cultural topic in its own right
. Unless proven otherwise, I don't see any category listed here that passes the test. I am also concerned about Category:Asian-American Christianity, which may be nominated as well. A reverse example of an eligible category is for instance African-American Islam, which is clearly recognized as a field of study in its own right. Place Clichy (talk) 05:51, 20 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep Category:Buddhism and Islam as part of an established series, delete the others per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:05, 20 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep Category:Buddhism and Islam, as part of an established series on relationships between religions. I am far from certain if the other categories have enough articles to be populated. Dimadick (talk) 14:44, 20 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
- Statement @Liz: I created these categories for a good reason. In my personal experience, I wanted to show respect to their race and their religions. I'm not trying to offend anyone, I just trying to respect them. There are organizations that are dedicated to their race. I also check their biography for who they are and what religion they worshiped. In off topic, these genres such as religious horror comedy exist from what the films can describe themselves. As for the term "European Americans", that term is still used in some occasions. Once again, I created this articles just for the sake of respect. RainbowSilver2ndBackup (talk) 23:36, 20 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
- @RainbowSilver2ndBackup: please may I urge you to read WP:Categorization. As you will see there, "The central goal of the category system is to provide navigational links to Wikipedia pages in a hierarchy of categories which readers, knowing essential—defining—characteristics of a topic, can browse and quickly find sets of pages on topics that are defined by those characteristics."
- Or, condensed: Categories are for navigation. Defining characteristics only (see WP:DEFINING).
- Notions of "respect" are admirable, but are nothing to do with categorisation. This is an NPOV encyclopedia, so we write article and build categories for all our readers, whether they love a topic, hate it, or whatever.
- There are several other principles of categorisation which have been developed and tested over many years, so it's important to read those guidelines too, e.g. WP:Overcategorization.
- In this case, we are looking at a series of categories for the intersection of ethnicity and religion. The relevant section of WP:Overcategorization is WP:OCEGRS, which says "should only be created where that combination is itself recognized as a distinct and unique cultural topic in its own right. If a substantial and encyclopedic head article (not just a list) cannot be written for such a category, then the category should not be created. Please note that this does not mean that the head article must already exist before a category may be created, but that it must at least be reasonable to create one.".
- So in this case, the questions we have to ask about for example Category:African-American Buddhism or Category:Native American Judaism is whether that is actually a "distinct and unique cultural topic in its own right". I agree with the nominator and other editors that these do not appear to be the case. If you have some evidence that they really are encyclopedic topics, then please present it. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 19:45, 25 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete. Some of these are really stretching the bounds of utility. For example, "Native American Judaism" is not a thing — while there do happen to be a number of people who happen to have both Native American and Jewish ancestry through different genealogical lines, "Native American Jews" aren't a defined group in the sense that's relevant to the category system. We do not create categories for every possible "people who happen to be both X and Y" combination of attributes that happens to fit two or more people, we create categories for defining characteristics that get studied and analyzed as things. We also have a practice of not categorizing people by religion unless religion is central to their notability in some way — frex, people would be categorized by religion if they were notable specifically as clergy or for writing religious texts, but not if they were notable as politicians or businesspeople who kept their religious beliefs private and personal. Similarly, many CFDs have kiboshed the idea of categorizing American people for whiteness, because EGRS categorization isn't well-served by categorizing for the majoritarian grouping, but categorizing American people for the Europeanness of their heritage is just a whiteness proxy and not a useful new point of categorization. Further, the creator has also engaged in other violations of categorization policy not covered here, such as arbitrarily depopulating Category:Télé-Québec network shows out of process by creating a new category for Category:Télé-Québec shows and moving all the articles to it without seeking any actual consensus that the category needed to be renamed at all. This is crossing the line into disruption. Bearcat (talk) 17:26, 21 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
- Deleted all except Category:Buddhism and Islam, per Marcocapelle. The rest are non-notable intersections. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 19:47, 25 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.