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August 30

Category:Arminian Christians

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: keep. MER-C 08:21, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: This is a recently created category, presumably to complement Category:Calvinist and Reformed Christians. The problem is, almost all of these are unsourced and so there are lots of BLP violations. Delete with all subcats. StAnselm (talk) 19:57, 29 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Two issues - one was that I didn't particularly want to do fifty reversions. But the other is that it is ambiguous what it means anyway - the word is used differently with respect to 17th century people (who are correctly categorised in Category:Remonstrants) and 21st-century people. StAnselm (talk) 18:39, 30 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed. StAnselm (talk) 18:43, 30 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Exactly my point - this should be obvious from the name of the category "Armenian Christians" is - to most people - going to the listing those Christians from Armenia. Very badly thoughtout category naming, scheme and with no reference articles indicated to give explanation. :: Kevinalewis : (Talk Page)/(Desk) 14:48, 31 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Okay I admit delete was too harsh - The categories should be renamed too to enable the naming to reflect the seemed intention of the category group - something that included either the term 'Armenianism' or 'Armenianist' perhaps - Armenian Christians is just so naturally 'Christians from/of Armenia. :: Kevinalewis : (Talk Page)/(Desk) 09:45, 1 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Please note that we are talking about Arminian Christians, not Armenian. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:21, 1 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Wonderfully confusing isn't it! :: Kevinalewis : (Talk Page)/(Desk) 08:27, 2 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Just looking at your table, the first entry with a quote is Adam Clarke, of whom the article says "preferring instead the Wesleyan-Arminian positions regarding predestination..." But that;s because he was a Methodist, and is appropriately categorised under Category:Methodist theologians. StAnselm (talk) 18:51, 30 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@StAnselm:completely agree with you on that fact. But the purpose of the list is to list those who hold to arminianism whatever the denomination. For instance : There are people who hold to arminian doctrine within the methodists... and there are people who hold to a calvinist doctrine within the methodists. (this is because of Methodism historical development)------- Telikalive (talk) 20:43, 30 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@StAnselm:, I just suppressed the tag denomination in the 2 categories that I'm supporting. I hope it makes more sense now. Again the need is to provide a information related to people doctrine, not denomination. Arminianism is an inter-denominational doctrine, as well as calvinism. Category:Arminianism already mentions correctly the denominations that partially hold to "arminianism", no need to add denominational information here. There is a need to classify the protestant ministers and theologians not only by century, denomination, or nationality (as done Category:Protestant_theologians and Category:Protestant religious leaders where I would place actually the 2 "arminian cat.") but also by doctrine. This information is not less relevant than the 3 others, for instance I found on a calvinist forum, this question : "who are some of the big names Arminians?. The relevant answer is a list of people, not a list of denominations who lean to arminianism. --------- Telikalive (talk) 08:29, 31 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
However, note that "Remonstrants" is usually used only of 17th-century people (though there is a surviving denomination in the Netherlands). StAnselm (talk) 18:46, 30 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Marcocapelle:@StAnselm:, That's the point : Arminianism is a doctrine, that is mainly present in methodists, baptists, and pentecostals. However there is an historical denomination called the Remonstrants. This community the mainly present in Holland (and count 10000 people). So Remonstrants (but clearly not all) have an arminian doctrine. On the other hand pentecostal have (but clearly not all) an arminian doctrine. But pentecostal are not Remonstrants!!! ----------- Telikalive (talk) 20:43, 30 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Marcocapelle: @StAnselm: On the Pentecostalism article you will find this sentence : "Classical Pentecostal soteriology is generally Arminian rather than Calvinist". This is basically what I'm saying. Besides, the arminianism article says : "Faiths leaning at least in part in the Arminian direction include [...] Charismatics", Pentecostalism is included here. If you want more detail abouts the doctrinal points themselves just go on the article of the 5th point of the arminian doctrine : 5th point denominations. There is a list here of denominations who agree with this point (apostasy and conditional perseverance), beyond protestantism, but also within protestantism. And among them you will find Pentecostalism. (there, see Note 193) ---------- Telikalive (talk) 07:51, 31 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, –MJL ‐Talk‐☖ 17:03, 30 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Marcocapelle: As already said, Arminianism (as well as Calvinism,...) is a trans-denominational doctrine. Saying that there is no identified denomination that is 100% Arminian as a justification for not categorizing the (notable) Arminian Christians part of it, would imply for example, that all the (notable) Calvinist Christians, that are not in a 100% Calvinist denomination would have to be merged into Category:Protestant religious leaders and Category:Protestant theologians. I take the example of the Baptist theologian John Piper who is listed in several "calvinist" categories. With the above logic, all those "calvinist" categories should be merged into "protestant" categories. (knowing that baptists are mainly divided into arminians and calvinists). If this logic leads to a loss of information, why people like the baptist theologian Roger Olson would not have the same "legitimacy" to be listed in "arminian" categories?----Telikalive (talk) 16:21, 7 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Climate change science

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2019 September 15#Category:Climate change science

Category:Convoys (Transformers)

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2019 September 15#Category:Convoys (Transformers)

Category:Central Division (NBL Canada) championship seasons

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. MER-C 13:48, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Completely redundant to Category:NBL Canada championship seasons (per WP:OVERLAPCAT). Even if they didn't overlap completely, there is no strong reason to subdivide champion seasons into two divisions. BLAIXX 15:46, 30 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Spy Changers

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2019 September 15#Category:Spy Changers

Category:Transformers Alternators

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2019 September 20#Category:Transformers Alternators

Category:Headmasters (Transformers)

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2019 September 20#Category:Headmasters (Transformers)

Category:Cyberjets

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2019 September 20#Category:Cyberjets

Category:Transformers deities

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2019 September 14#Category:Transformers deities

Category:Irish emigrants (before 1923)

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: do not merge. MER-C 09:14, 7 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: No obvious rationale as to why we would start classifying immigrants by year of arrival. Not sure where 1923 comes into it either. Ivar the Boneful (talk) 14:19, 30 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • At the time of nomination the category was unpopulated, so deletion would have been appropriate. Since then the category creator has populated the category and removed the existing "Irish emigrants to XYZ" category, so a merger is now necessary. I've updated the description. Ivar the Boneful (talk) 03:01, 31 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • User:Johnpacklambert 1923 doesn't match up with any significant date in Irish history that I'm aware of - see 1923 in Ireland. Ireland gained home rule in 1920 and the Irish Free State was created in 1922. I wasn't aware that you had created other categories as you only created Category:Irish emigrants (before 1923) after this nomination. I've added the other categories to this nomination and the container category as well. Ivar the Boneful (talk) 03:01, 31 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • This is an incorrect analogy. Australia and the United States did not have a change of regime and name in 1922/23. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:19, 31 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
You added that description yourself. Again, I'm not sure where 1923 comes from. Ivar the Boneful (talk) 03:02, 31 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Anti-European and anti-white slurs

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: keep. MER-C 09:10, 7 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Confusing - does it mean slurs that are either anti-European or anti-white (and if so we don't need it) or that are both, and if so, does it mean not anti-Europeans who are not considered 'white'? Doug Weller talk 09:05, 30 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
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