- The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The article was promoted by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 15 October 2021 [1].
- Nominator(s): BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 11:34, 16 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
This article is about the 1988 World Snooker Championship, won by Steve Davis, who became the first player to complete snooker's Triple Crown in a single season. (Although the Triple Crown wasn't actually a thing back then.) The most exciting match of the tournament was the first of what turned out to be seven Crucible clashes between Jimmy White and Stephen Hendry, with White winning the deciding frame. There are quite a few offline sources used, and I'm happy to provide the relevant extracts on request to reviewers. Thanks in advance for your help in improving the article. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 11:34, 16 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Image review[edit]
- Thanks, Nikkimaria. I've added alt text. Let me know if you have any suggestions for improving the descriptions. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 19:49, 17 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Hi, Nikkimaria. I've added another picture (of Cliff Thorburn). It's a crop I made of an existing Commons image. Thanks, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:56, 4 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Okay - the image description should include a direct link to that existing image. Nikkimaria (talk) 23:59, 4 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Still a non-expert. One day I'll have to actually watch a Snooker match.
- "He had been banned from the first two ranking events of the season,[29] as part of a punishment imposed by the WPBSA for behaviour including headbutting the tournament director at the 1986 UK Championship." Were these events before the Championship? If so, I think this needs to go before the preceding sentence, and more context for why this is important should be included. Maybe something like, "Alex Higgins, who won the competition in 1972 and 1982, was banned from the first two ranking events of the season. This was a punishment imposed by the WPBSA for behaviour including headbutting the tournament director at the 1986 UK Championship. His ban meant that he needed to win against Drago to retain his status as an elite top 16 of the snooker world rankings. However, Drago defeated him 2-7, causing him to lose his position."
- Re-oderered, as suggested. Looking at the detail of the rankings, I think he would actually have needed to reach the quarter-finals to stay in the top 16. I've added a further sentence. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 22:57, 22 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- "but, after their second, morning, session was stopped due to over-running," -> "but, after their second session the following morning was stopped due to over-running," To remove the commas?
- "with the pair both playing attacking snooker." What does that mean?
-
- Reworded this again following TRM's comment below. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 19:04, 23 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Works for me. Z1720 (talk) 14:23, 24 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- " Davis snookered himself whilst on a break of 61," What does snookered himself mean?
- "who the bookmakers has rated a 500/1" -> had rated
- "when playing a safety shot" What is a safety shot?
- There's a glossary link (safety) at the first instance. Should something be added into the article either in the body text or as a note? BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 22:57, 22 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Must have missed the first instance. You can consider wikilikning safety shots, instead of just safety, but I won't withhold my support over this. Z1720 (talk) 14:23, 24 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- "leaving him one behind Ray Reardon's total of six titles." Why is it important to mention Reardon's total? Did Reardon hold the record?
- Yes, for the "modern era" (which is defined under the Overview section). Text amended accordingly. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 22:57, 22 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- The final talks about Davis's ranking because of this match, but not Griffiths. Is there anything noteworthy to say about his ranking because of this game?
Those are my comments. Please ping when you have responded above. Z1720 (talk) 01:44, 21 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Many thanks for your review and constructive comments, Z1720. I've replied above. Let me know if any of the points need further action or if there is anything else required. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 22:57, 22 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- My concerns have been addressed so I can now support. Z1720 (talk) 14:23, 24 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Support from TRM[edit]
- "the first tournament having..." well the first tournament there, not in general.
- "matches in a single-elimination format" already linked as "knockout tournament".
- " with a discretionary "non-tournament" status" why?
- I wasn't able to find out. Robidoux was talking to the press in June 1987 about his scheduled move to become a professional after the World Amateur Championship, but I've not found anything (even in Snooker Scene) with more details. (That peculiar ststus, and him earning a place as a full professional through walkovers is also mentioned in the years B&H Snooker Yearbook.) Suggestion? BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:04, 27 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- "Tony Drago (pictured in 2012) made..." needs a full stop.
- "the bookmakers' pre-tournament favourite" all bookies?
- "rankings for the first time" he was never outside it on his way up?
-
- "In the ranking list for 1988/1989, Higins was placed at 17th, two points behind 16th-ranked Cliff Wilson" this would be better as a footnote as it has no real bearing here, you've already said Higgins fell out of the top 16.
- "due to over-running" what happened, lengthy frames?
- Added some detail. The Guardian article refers to Werbeniuk's "awesome drinking" so we could expand this slightly. BennyOnTheLoose (talk)
- "suffering serious road traffic accident" missing an "a" I think.
- "The score was 10"... seems odd phrasing. Perhaps "Thorburn won the match 10..."?
- "using a cue stick that he had only started using " using/using.
- "Jimmy White (pictured in 2016) won his..." needs full stop.
- "defeated one former" a instead of one.
- "an emphatic defeat" surely it was an emphatic victory for Foulds/Davis??
- "playing attacking snooker" this is linked to "offense" in the glossary which makes no mention of "attacking" so a re-word.
- "thus leading 9–6." surely "thus led"?
- "of the coronavirus pandemic" wouldn't the more specific "in the United Kingdom" article be more appropriate here?
- "frames scoring 271 points" maybe clarify this was a "total" of 271.
- "was 4–4[45] James" missing full stop.
- "the bookmakers had" all bookmakers had the same odds?
- The source says "Steve James, who started the tournament at 500-1, was no more than 6-4 to beat Thorburn withe the scores level at 6-6." I found an Evening Standard article from 15 April 1988 that says Coral were offering these odds; so two option are remove the statement, or amend it to include "Coral" and the ES source. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:04, 27 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- "he made his fourth century break of the competition, 103." odd dangling number, maybe "he made 103, his fourth..."
- "the red balls when" overlinked.
- "Griffiths fluked a" link fluke here rather than later.
- "best-of-35 frames" 35-frames
- "It was ... It was... " repetitive.
- "his win in 1979.[52]" overlinked.
- "Steve Davis (pictured in 2014) won..." needs a full stop.
- "laid a snooker and" overlinked.
- "penalty points" doesn't appear in the glossary, it's not a common term in snooker is it?
- " 57 break" -> "break of 57" (to mix up that sentence a bit)
- "Griffiths missed a black from its spot" but this pays no heed to where the cue ball was...
- "was Davis' fourth" Davis's.
- In the final summary table, it's not explained what (X) means.
- "103 Steve " would prefer to see colons separating the lists of century breaks and player's names.
That's all I have for the moment. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 14:02, 23 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Many thanks for the thorough review and constructive comments, The Rambling Man. Sorry it took me a few days to come back. There are a couple of points above where I'm seeking your advice. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:04, 27 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- As per comment below, I couldn't find any explanation of this unusual "discretionary non-tournament" status. Maybe "which meant Robidoux earnt a ranking merit point that enabled him to gain full professional status for the following season" needs to go too? BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:56, 4 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Hi, The Rambling Man, hopefully I've resolved most of your review comments. At your convenience, please let me know what else is required. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 09:22, 29 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- The Rambling Man ? Gog the Mild (talk) 18:51, 9 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Yeah, I've had a couple of looks and I'm happy my concerns have been addressed, so will support the nomination. Good work. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 10:10, 11 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I'll begin a review of this article very soon! My reviews tend to focus on prose and MOS issues, especially on the lede, but I will also comment on anything that could be improved. I'll post up some comments below over the next couple days, which you should either respond to, or ask me questions on issues you are unsure of. I'll be claiming points towards the wikicup once this review is over.
- Lede
- ranking professional snooker tournament - whilst this is fine, I tend to leave out the ranking part, as it's not really super important to understand the subject. We later discuss how it's the sixth and final ranking event, which is where I would link this. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 14:53, 3 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- It's previously linked in the article at "knockout format" but I've added it here too, assuming that this is of benefit to readers even if it might be seen as overlinking. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:52, 4 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- 113 players were involved - can we reword to avoid starting a sentence with a number? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 14:53, 3 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Prose
- American pool player Steve Mizerak made his competitive snooker debut, losing 3–10 to Anthony Harris - should really come first, as it's a separate round Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 14:53, 3 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Alain Robidoux had been provided with a discretionary "non-tournament" status by the WPBSA, which permitted him to compete in the world championship but not any other tournaments. - this might need additional explaination. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 14:53, 3 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Amended, as I couldn't find any explanation of this unusual status. Maybe "which meant Robidoux earnt a ranking merit point that enabled him to gain full professional status for the following season" needs to go too? BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:52, 4 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Players seem to have full names after their initial introductions. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 14:53, 3 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Amended. (Match was "almost 10 hours" so not really that remarkable.) BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:52, 4 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Could we maybe have another image, maybe Thorburn at the quarters? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 14:53, 3 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Additional comments
Additionally, if you liked this review, or are looking for items to review, I have some at my nominations list. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 14:33, 3 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Source review[edit]
Spotchecks not done. Version reviewed
- Retrieval dates aren't needed for GBooks
- FN11: edition statement should be in a different parameter from title, and publisher is missing. And is this the same source as FN15, 27, etc?
- Amended the edition statement to year. It's a self-published source - see here for something on Downer, including a claim that the Almanac has "become a key resource for commentators and journalists alike". The Almanac is published annually and sold via Snooker Scene. Yes, it's the same source. I've cited different chapters separately - let me know if there's a better way to do this. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 11:55, 23 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- I'm assuming the whole book is written by downer, as opposed to this being an edited compilation? If so, there are a couple of options. You could just cite pages from the book and not worry about chapters at all, or you could split the book details to a Sources section and use short cites referring to that. Nikkimaria (talk) 21:30, 25 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Yes, Downer is the only author, Nikkimaria. I've used page numbers to avoid having just one source that uses sfn. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 17:57, 26 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- What makes global-snooker.com a high-quality reliable source? And if it is kept, be consistent in how it is cited
- Some Times refs include London, while others don't - why?
- BBC News is sometimes italicized and sometimes not, and then FN58 just uses BBC - should be consistent
- FN45: what kind of source is this?
- It's an ebook, from the publishers of Snooker Scene. Cite ebook redirects to "cite book" but let me know if I need to amend the citation. No print edition was published. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 11:45, 23 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Given that other books include publisher location, suggest doing the same here. Nikkimaria (talk) 21:30, 25 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Why include location for Toronto Star but not Aberdeen Press?
- What makes Chris Turner a high-quality reliable source? Nikkimaria (talk) 23:19, 22 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Turner worked for Eurosport doing statistics and writing articles for their site. However, looking into this a bit deeper I discovered that the WPBSA took over the annual awards from the Snooker Writers' Association in 1985, and that James also shared a prize for the Highest Televised Break of the Year, so I've amended the text and changed the references. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 13:39, 23 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Many thanks for the review, Nikkimaria. I've replied to all of your points above. Let me know if anything else is needed. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 13:39, 23 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- FN45 (now 42) is still pending; once that's fixed it should be fine. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:24, 28 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.