- The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The article was promoted by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 13:31, 11 February 2015 (UTC) [1].[reply]
- Nominator(s): Melburnian (talk · contribs) and Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:43, 9 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
This article is about an unusual succulent tree native to Australia. Melburnian (talk · contribs) and I have scoured all sources we can find to produce another plant article. It's succinct and comprehensive and tries (hopefully successfully) to balance plain english and exact technical language. Anyway, have at it. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:43, 9 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- Hi Cas, could you let us know whether or not this a Wikicup entry for you? The bot that used to highlight this is down, so we're on manual for the moment as far as checking goes... Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 13:18, 13 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- Actually might not be eligible as almost all major work done last year. So will leave it off. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 19:38, 13 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- You have one sentence on insects but it doesn't say if these are harmful to the host tree, or anything else about their effect on the tree.
- I've found some information on the kurrajong leaf roller and added it. I can't find reports of any damage caused to this species by the pale cotton stainer bug, but I have added that it is a pest of cotton crops.--Melburnian (talk) 23:54, 16 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- Is there any information available about toxins?
- The only thing that I could find related to that is nitrate poisoning of stock, which is mentioned under uses. I added a link.--Melburnian (talk) 00:04, 17 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Images - all own works and with free licenses.
- HalfGig talk 13:33, 15 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- thx/much appreciated :) Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 08:33, 17 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I don't usually comment on biological/botanical articles, but I thought this looked interesting and worth more FAC attention than it's had in nearly four weeks. I'll leave further comments in a day or so, when I've had time to read it properly. In the meantime I'll draw your attention to just one point, in the lead. The word "succulent" has a general meaning of "tasty", as in "a succulent steak", and a somewhat different biological meaning. Only biologists will be aware of the latter meaning, so most readers will assume from "As a succulent, drought-deciduous tree..." that the tree has a delicious taste. Is there any other way of putting this, that won't mislead your non-specialist readers?
- gosh, I'd never thought about it like that as I've grown cacti since I was a kid and just used the word. Have bluelinked to succulent plant and switched the word order to make it a bit more nouny...does that help? Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 22:49, 5 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Back soon. Brianboulton (talk) 19:47, 5 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- More comments
These are mainly requests or suggestions for tweaks to punc and prose, in addition to the few which I been bold enough to do myself. My main object is to improve where possible the readability for non-experts:
- link "deciduous" in lead and text
- linked Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 19:20, 6 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- "Trees in their native habitat are typically leafless between September and December," – the comma needs to be upgraded to semicolon or full stop. Alternatively you could replace "however" with "but".
- semicoloned Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 19:20, 6 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- "...with 12-25 pairs of lateral veins that are more prominent on the upper surface arising at 50-60 degrees from the midrib" – maybe needs a little more punctuation to make the sense clear, and perhaps "rising" rather than "arising", which has a rather different meaning?
- added a comma. used "arising" rather than "rising" as it means originating rather than going up here.... Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 19:58, 6 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- " that occurs only in the vicinity of Proserpine" – despite the link, it would help readers if you said "the town of Proserpine"
- done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 19:20, 6 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- "The undescribed Ormeau bottle tree". Perhaps "the then undescribed"? I believe "undescribed" has a specific botanical meaning, but this needs to be clearer for non-specialists
- yes, it has yet to be officially described. (see Species description, which I have now linked to. was vacillating whether to add "as yet" before "undescribed" Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 19:20, 6 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- "sinking the genus into Brachychiton. What does this mean in lay language?
- it means von Mueller considered the genus part of the larger genus Brachychiton. "sunk" is just so wonderfully Anglo-saxon....changed to "incorporated". Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 19:52, 6 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- "which was followed by Achille Terraciano" – not grammatically sound, as "which" relates to the name, not the naming. "Accepted" would work.
- done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 19:27, 6 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- I have bluelinked it - if that is not enough I was tempted to add "(lineage)" there as well Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 19:20, 6 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- "in referring to its loose seed coats" → "a reference to the tree's loose seed coats"
- done partly - as a genus name it refers to a whole bunch of species, not just one species Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 19:58, 6 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- "with the specific names then incorrectly amended" – when was this incorrect amendment?
- over many decades! the time is at the front of the sentence as this follows on Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 19:58, 6 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- When you give the common names, e.g. "Queensland bottle tree", these should be in quotes
- done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:24, 8 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- The brief final paragraph of the Taxonomy section seems a bit detached, and could be better incorporated with a little more explanation beyond thr biological terms.
- this might be tricky as information is hard to come by...will see what I can do Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:01, 6 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- Conservation section: I'd rejig the last sentence so that it reads: "The species is conserved within its natural habitat in a number of National Parks:" – followed by the listing of names.
- done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 19:27, 6 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- "Aborigines" → "Aboriginal peoples"?
- done...showing my age here as the former usual in the 70s.... Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 19:27, 6 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- (same sentence) – " as well as" → "and by"
- aaah, good catch. done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 19:27, 6 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- I'm not being facetious, but can you explain "bottom heat"?
- Aha, it's gadgets like these that you can use to warm roots/root formation in cool or cold weather. linked now to Plant_propagation#Seed_propagation_mat Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 19:44, 6 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- Punctuation in the footnote (an errant comma) needs attention. Also "and now sunk" → "and is now sunk". Statements given in footnotes are subject to the same citation standards as apply to text.
- reffed now and done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 19:44, 6 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
In general this looks like a neat and efficient job and a worthy addition to the "intelligent" dimension of the encyclopedia. Brianboulton (talk) 16:07, 6 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Support: I'll leave the experts to discuss and tidy any remaining specialist issues; otherwise, the article is I think in fine shape, concise and readable and friendly enough to the non-expert who likes trees (saw some fascinating shapes in Madeira recently). Brianboulton (talk) 14:22, 8 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- Heh, thanks this one I drive by on the way to work and I have seen its trunk double in width over about 7-8 years. Some person just planted it on their nature strip outside their back fence. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 23:39, 8 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
A nice article. Just a few comments - (you may disagree with me on the conversion measurements I mention):
- "... up to 11 centimetres (4.3 in) long and 2 centimetres (0.79 in) wide." - The second conversion seems too precise.
- tweaked Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 09:36, 7 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- "... The adult leaf blades are 4–11 centimetres (1.6–4.3 in) long and 0.8–2 centimetres (0.31–0.79 in)" - Ditto.
- tweaked Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 09:36, 7 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- "... 4–14 centimetres (1.6–5.5 in) long and 0.3–1 centimetre (0.12–0.39 in) wide." - And I would reduce to one significant figure here also.
- tweaked Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 09:36, 7 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- "These arise from axillary buds on end branches." - Could be better expressed.
- it is linked - having a hard time thinking how to rephrase this one.... Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:26, 8 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- "Each flower is 0.5–1 centimetre (0.20–0.39 in) long and 1.3–1.8 centimetres (0.51–0.71 in) wide." - More conversion over-precision.
- tweaked Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 09:36, 7 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- You mention the male flowers but not the female ones. What of the stigma, style and ovary?
- added now Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:15, 10 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- "The undescribed Ormeau bottle tree ..." - Is this a recognised species that nobody has bothered to study?
- funnily enough i was talking to someone this afternoon about this - it comes from botanists and lack of free time I suspect. Guymer is apparently going to officially describe it soon. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 09:36, 7 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- The list of synonyms in the taxobox seems incomplete.
- oops, missed one - in now Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:22, 7 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- "The genus Brachychiton is only distantly related to Sterculia, belonging to a different clade." - Could you be more precise here?
- have rejigged it as I realised the discussion on classification at genus/subfamily level takes place in the next para Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:22, 7 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- "Other common species include broad-leaved bottle tree (Brachychiton australis) and belah (Casuarina cristata)." - Do you mean that it is often found growing in association with these trees?
- yes. added "while" to link the two sentences Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:22, 7 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- Could you explain "emergent tree species".
- emergent trees are those that grow above the canopy layer of a forest. The only place to link to I can find thus far is Tropical_rainforest#Emergent_layer, but this is a bit of a problem as it is on a rainforest page. Some moving of target material might be in order as it would be better on Canopy (biology) article. Am about to go to sleep now and will try to do tomorrow. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:37, 7 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- "... and rolls individual leaves to pupate within." - Could be better expressed.
- tweaked Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:20, 8 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- "... and Queensland farmers often leave them for this purpose when land is cleared." - the subject of this sentence is "leaves".
- tweaked Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 05:45, 8 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- "Bottle trees grown from seed may take up to 20 years to flower, and only after adult leaves have appeared." - This sentence needs attention.
- tweaked--Melburnian (talk) 10:02, 8 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- "Plants are readily propagated from seed. Collection requires care as they are surrounded by irritating hairs." - A little more information is needed to link these juxtaposed sentences.
- tweaked--Melburnian (talk) 10:08, 8 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- There is some inconsistency on how you number pages in the reference section.
- all to 2 digits now. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 05:43, 8 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- Some book sources lack page numbers.
- numbers added now Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:01, 10 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- There is inconsistency in the book source citations with regard to publishers names, printers, etc.
- I think I got all these... Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:01, 10 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- There is inconsistency on whether foreign language sources mention their language (#15, #16, #44).
- languages added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:47, 7 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- These improvements seem satisfactory and I now "Support" this candidate on the grounds of comprehensiveness and prose. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 19:23, 10 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks. --Melburnian (talk) 00:35, 11 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Support and comments from Jim[edit]
I can't see much wrong with this, thanks to previous reviewers, and I assume Cwmhiraeth's outstanding queries will be fixed. Just three minor suggestion follow Jimfbleak - talk to me? 15:41, 7 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- Tessellation— fairly technical with no link or explanation.
- I've linked now to Tessellation#In_nature, though the botanical info therein is meagre and could be buffed... Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:33, 8 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- extremes of wetness—"rainfall" might be better
- done--Melburnian (talk) 10:19, 8 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- whole trees have been felled—why not "were felled"?
- I used "have been" as it has happened in the past and I suspect still happens now, hence use of perfect tense.. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:34, 8 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks.--Melburnian (talk) 00:37, 11 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
