The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ealdgyth via FACBot (talk) 23 August 2020 [1].

Iwan Roberts[edit]

Nominator(s): Dweller (talk), The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 14:18, 9 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Something of a journeyman Welsh footballer, and certainly held in high esteem, nay legend status, by Norwich City supporters, the push on this article has been a joint effort between the two nominators, one of whom is not a Norwich supporter so was able to introduce some balance. It's been a long time in the making, we first started expansion around nine years ago, but we're hoping to finish the job properly and push it over the FAC line. Both Dweller and I will do our utmost to address every comment and query raised here, and we both thank you in advance for your time and effort. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 14:18, 9 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Support by Kosack[edit]

Hugman's lists a single cap for Wales B. If you know the year of the match he scored in, could be worth adding to the infobox.
Indeed, added. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 09:06, 14 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
"started at Watford where he started as a", slightly repetitive with started perhaps.
Done --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 08:36, 14 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Link Premier League in the second paragraph of the lead.
Done. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 09:07, 14 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
"one of the greatest goal scorers ever to pull on a Norwich City shirt", I don't see this quote anywhere else in the article so it needs a source.
Great spot. Page is defunct, so I cut it. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 14:49, 14 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Link available for Tom Walley.
Oh, good spot, thanks. Done --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 08:49, 14 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Do we know when he made his professional debut?
I just spent an age and couldn't find the answer anywhere. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 10:22, 14 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
29 March 1986 according to this site, which I trust. Repeated here on the site of the now-deceased Watford historian Trefor Jones. So he made his professional debut before he got a pro-contract. HornetMike (talk) 08:54, 20 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Fab, thanks, added. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 12:26, 27 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Worth having the full team name for "future Norwich manager, Glenn Roeder", as the first mention of City in the main body?
Done. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 09:10, 14 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
"There they lost to Peterborough" > Peterborough United?
Done. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 09:07, 14 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Comma by ref 16 but appears to start a new sentence afterwards?
Done. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 09:08, 14 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Link the first mention of hat-trick in the Leicester City section. It's currently linked at the start of the Wolverhampton section.
Done. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 09:09, 14 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Stoke > Stoke City?
Done. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 09:10, 14 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
"due to the arrogant, ungrateful and violent mentality and behaviour of many of their supporters", I know you have "in his book" but it sounds a little like this is written as fact, rather than his opinion. Perhaps this can be made slightly clearer given the rather damning nature of the quote?
Yeah, agreed on this. HornetMike (talk) 08:54, 20 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Done --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 11:24, 27 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I can't see any obvious difference here? Kosack (talk) 07:43, 29 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Kosack, yeah, the change isn't so obvious, see the humungous cite, that includes a long verbatim quote. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 08:52, 29 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
As a newspaper, does Eastern Daily Press require italics?
Done. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 09:12, 14 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
"However, Walker was sacked at the end of the season", two consecutive sentences starting with however is slightly repetitive. This one would be fine without it I would say.
Done. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 09:12, 14 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Link Nottingham Forest, the first mention of Carrow Road and Birmingham City in the Norwich section.
Done. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 09:12, 14 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
In the opening two sentences of the Gillingham section there is a double mention of joining Gillingham that reads oddly.
Fixed. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 09:14, 14 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Ref 13 has an author available.
Done. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 09:14, 14 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Ref 34 doesn't seem to be accessible, even the archive link.
Works for me, albeit incredibly slowly. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 09:15, 14 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I believe succession boxes were ditched for listing the captaincy of players sometime ago. Not a deal breaker for me, but someone else may bring it up.
Happy to fall in line, sucboxes... suck. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 09:16, 14 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

This is what stood out to me on a run through, nothing much for me to really complain about. Kosack (talk) 08:16, 14 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thank you so much, Kosack. We'll get stuck into that. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 08:34, 14 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Yes, cheers Kosack. I've done the easy ones and left a few scraps for Dweller so he feels like he's still involved..... The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 09:16, 14 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Kosack, I'm sorry it's taken so long to get back to you, I'm very busy IRL. All your comments should now be addressed. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 12:27, 27 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

No worries, real life takes precedence. I've had another read through and picked out a few more things:

Link Liverpool in the early life section.
Done. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 13:54, 29 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Tom Walley is linked in the quote in the Norwich section but is mentioned before this, in the early life section.
Done. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 13:54, 29 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I'd agree that the Watford section feels a little light. The club suffered relegation in a season he featured pretty prominently in, but his appearances dropped dramatically in the second tier. Even if we can't provide too much context, these are probably worth mentioning.
I've added some more detail into the Watford section now if you'd like to check that it meets with your approval? The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 18:49, 29 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The Huddersfield section mentions his side suffered a defeat in the 1991-92 season play-offs, but the career statistics table indicates a promotion (Third Division (3) > Second Division (2))? I'm assuming the table is wrong for the Premier League breakaway?
Yes, error in table tier due to Prem break. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 13:54, 29 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Leciester > Leicester
Done. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 13:54, 29 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Was Roberts one of the substitutes brought on in the Midlands derby?
No. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 13:54, 29 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
with eleven goals > 11 goals?
Done. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 13:54, 29 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
"Roberts scored just four goals in most of a season", I'm not really understanding what's meant by this sentence.
Reworded. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 13:54, 29 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
"During the 2002–03 season, Roberts captained the Norwich City team", this paragraph goes back to including City in Norwich's name. Is that necessary by this point?
Done. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 13:54, 29 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
"Roberts scored twice as City won 3–1.[54] Roberts described..." Double use of Roberts in quick succession is a little repetitive.
Done. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 13:54, 29 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
"He failed to be selected for Wales again until 2000", failed to be selected sounds a little odd and reads a little like it was down to him playing badly. What about "He was not selected"?
Done. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 13:54, 29 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
"including a single appearance and a goal for the Wales B team" is the second "a" necessary here?
I changed it to "one" goal. I think it reads ok. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 13:54, 29 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
"Roberts scored 24 goals and Bellamy 17", I'm assuming this is a typo as the career statistics table has his best season for Norwich as 23 goals?
Dweller need you to check the book. Probably Iwan mis-remembering. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 13:54, 29 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I can confirm the book says 24. Could be one is disputed. Could be he got it wrong. Could be our other sources are wrong. I'm not sure what to add. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 16:13, 29 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
"fellow Welsh former International legend Danny Gabbidon", legend?
Done. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 13:54, 29 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

That's probably about it for me. Kosack (talk) 09:18, 29 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Kosack I got to your list, only two things remain, (1) Watford career - we're both still a bit perplexed, there was very little to write home about his time at Watford, is there anything critical missing? (2) Iwan's version of how many goals he thinks he scored, Dweller will need to check the book. Cheers for all your comments! The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 13:54, 29 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I've checked point 2 and posted about it above. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 16:13, 29 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Kosack and I've done point (1) with a little bit of helpful guidance from HornetMike on things that could be included. I think that's everything, please let me and Dweller know if there's anything else you'd like us to address. Cheers for all your helpful comments. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 18:49, 29 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

That's it from me, happy to lend my support. Nice work both. Kosack (talk) 07:53, 30 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Comments by HornetMike[edit]

It's definitely lore among Watford fans that Roberts lost his teeth at Vicarage Road. Sadly I can't find a cite! It's not even mentioned in this interview which you thought might have addressed it (might have a bit of useful Watford stuff - Colin Lee? Although is that also mentioned in his book?).
Teeth added. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 14:15, 29 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
In the Watford section there's a full-stop that goes straight into what looks like the second half of a sentence ("before moving...").
Fixed. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 10:53, 20 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I'm not sure whether Midlands should be capped in "midlands derby" - the article about it on here caps it up.
I'll fix that, thanks. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 10:05, 20 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Is there a way you could combine the things Wolves fans spat at so you don't get repetition of the phrase within a sentence? Also maybe worth mentioning who Jack Hayward was?
Done --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 21:01, 28 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I'm not sure what's going on with the paragraph that begins "He played eight games in Division One before finally breaking his league duck ..." - the first few sentences don't make much sense to me.
Yeah, it's a direct quote but I would be tempted to re-write it into prose because it's mainly a statement of statistical facts, and perhaps only quote the "good heart" bit, what do you think Dweller? The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 11:55, 20 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Phoo yuck, I really didn't do a good job there. I've tidied it up and hopefully it's far better for it, thank you. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 21:07, 28 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I would lose the quote about "the flourishing talent" of Craig Bellamy as it's unclear where it comes from. You could say he was 19-years-old (he's a July birthday, so was for all that season) to denote he was youthful.
I've attributed the quote. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 12:05, 27 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Sorry to nitpick, and feel free to disagree, but reading now it almost makes Craig Bellamy sound like something existential! I'd personally still lose the quote, but up to you! HornetMike (talk) 15:57, 18 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I reduced the quote to just "flourishing talent" but I don't think this is existential. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 17:19, 18 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I'd say "first four years" rather than "four years so far".
Adjusted per your recommendation. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 10:56, 20 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
"but misses by Phil Mulryne and Daryl Sutch proved costly" - given it was a penalty shoot-out they were immediately costly, I think "proved costly" better suits a scenario where a miss might be of no consequence (and possibly occurred some time prior to the conclusion), whereas in a shoot-out a miss almost always hurts you.
Mild re-wording done. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 10:58, 20 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Did Roberts formally give up the captaincy after 2002-03 or did he just gradually lose it by virtue of not playing much? If the former might be worth mentioning?
I don't know of anyone who "formally" gives up being captain. Unless they do something particularly stupid. Perhaps Dweller has something on this, but I would just class it as business as usual to give the captaincy to the most appropriate person at the time. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 18:52, 29 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I don't know. I've not seen anything in the sources. IIRC (which I may not!) in those days, the captaincy of NCFC was fairly informal, not like the ridiculous situation these days when Norwich have an official fifth captain or something similarly stupid. It's not like cricket captaincy that's actually important. Anyway, rant aside, I don't know of RS on this I'm afraid. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 08:27, 30 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Ha, yeah, I always remove anything beyond vice, the rest is unverifiable! What I meant here really was perhaps not so much did he himself give it up, did Norwich name someone else for the following season (sometimes clubs announce it), or did it just drift over to someone else by virtue of Roberts not playing much? HornetMike (talk) 15:57, 18 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
There are no sources that I have found which expand upon this relatively minor issue. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 17:19, 18 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
In 2003-04 it says Roberts was no longer an automatic selection for the first-team, but then I noticed he only missed five league matches. Did he make most of his appearances from the bench? If so, would it be worth articulating that?
Indeed, 2/3 of his appearances came in the last 20 minutes or so... The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 14:15, 29 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I added some text around that. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 18:52, 29 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thinking about it, is "automatic selection" wording we should definitely use? Obviously there are players in every squad who you'd expect to start if fit, but if you take the term literally you could conceivably infer something different. Might "regular starter" cover things better? I don't know, might be overly pedantic! HornetMike (talk) 15:57, 18 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Regular starter indeed. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 17:19, 18 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Do we know how long he served as Gillingham caretaker manager/what the results were like?
List of Gillingham F.C. managers (I know, not RS) says one game. Which they lost. The source in the article only mentions one game. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 14:04, 29 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Maybe something ChrisTheDude can help with? HornetMike (talk) 15:57, 18 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
OK, This confirms that John Gorman quit as Gills manager on 30 November and this confirms that Stan Ternent was appointed seven days later. this says that Roberts was caretaker for the only game in that seven day period (Soccerbase or similar can be used to confirm that the team only played one game in that timespan), although This confirms that he was actually one of a committee (for want of a better word) asked by the chairman to fulfill that role. Hope this helps...... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 17:49, 18 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
BTW thanks for bringing up "happy" memories of that godawful season ;-) -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 17:50, 18 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Is it worth mentioning the following: Graham Taylor's departure in 1987 (given he's mentioned as a reason for joining Watford), his breakthrough season in 1988-89 when Watford reached the second tier play-offs (so I suppose you'd have to mention in passing our relegation the previous year too!), that he dropped a division to join Huddersfield, that he moved up a tier when joining Leicester, that in moving to Wolves he missed out on a return to the Premier League, that he reached the play-offs with Wolves, maybe that he remained in the same tier in moving to Norwich/Gillingham/dropped two tiers when joining Cambridge (but I wouldn't want the prose to become too clunky).
Expanded the Watford section... The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 14:54, 29 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thing all those divisional moves are covered in prose now with the exception of Wolves (you can infer he stayed in the same tier with Norwich as it says he made his debut against Wolves). WatfordArchive says that Roberts started (and was subbed off) in both 1989 play-off matches, don't know if you want to mention that? HornetMike (talk) 15:57, 18 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Well only if "watfordfcarchive.co.uk" is agreed to be RS which per the source review, it was not. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 17:19, 18 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Similarly, any point in putting footnotes in the season stats to clarify that the Second Division became the First Division which became the Championship/the Third Division became the Second.
No I think now we have the level in the table in parentheses, we don't need to try to cover the nuances of league nomenclature in this (and thus possibly tens of thousands of) BLPs. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 17:15, 29 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The prose switches between saying Premier League and Premiership, while the stats table uses the former. I think whenever he played in it, it was called the Premiership?
Prose (other than direct quotations) uses Premiership now. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 12:08, 27 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I'm not sure what I think about the book section. Had it been published post-retirement I'd say it should be sub-section of his post-playing career, but it wasn't so I can see why you've felt the need to have it as a headline section. I don't really think it justifies a mention in the lead, but then I can see why you might feel it does given it has its own section. I suppose an alternative might be calling the post-playing section "media and post-playing career"? If you do keep a main book section, I think it would better titled as simply "autobiography", the praise is fairly standard review stuff and it may be semantics but I always think you need to hit a higher bar to cause "a controversy" (as opposed to something containing controversial comments) - hope that (and the rest of it) makes sense! HornetMike (talk) 08:54, 20 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Yes, I dithered a bit about the placement of the section. It did attract headlines because of the ban and its perceived unfairness, both on Gillingham and in contrast to the treatment of more feted footballers. Agree about retitling the section, but it's not actually an "autobiography": although it includes significant autobiographical detail, it does so in the framework of a season diary, which is why we've found awkward gaps [pun intended]. I think I'll have to change it to the book's title. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 09:31, 20 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Good stuff. thanks, we'll get stuck in. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 09:27, 20 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

HornetMike I think we've addressed and/or responded to all of your comments above. Thanks once again for your very helpful and constructive review. Let us know if there's anything else you find. Cheers. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 17:01, 30 July 2020 (UTC) (and Dweller)Reply[reply]

Sorry for the delay in response, thanks for looking through all that. I've added a couple of (probably overly pedantic) in-line comments and some quibbles to follow, but looks good to me, happy to support. HornetMike (talk) 15:57, 18 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Is it worthwhile having the "nicknamed the Hornets" in order to use it as a one-time second-mention in "He scored nine goals in 63 league matches in total for the Hornets". I think using Watford in that sentence is fine, the word isn't being used too often.
Nick removed. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 17:19, 18 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
"...Taylor left the club to join Aston Villa. He broke through in the following season..." The second sentence returns to talking about Roberts when the previous one was talking about Taylor - as such, should probably say "Roberts" rather than "he".
Done. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 17:19, 18 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Accidental cap O in Roberts at the start of the Wolves section.
Fixed. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 17:19, 18 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Is there a cite for there being much speculation about his post-Norwich career move?
Removed. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 17:19, 18 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
"Of all teams Roberts could have made his debut against, it turned out to be Ipswich, Norwich's local rivals." The first part of this sentence seems a bit lively for Wikipedia! I think you can just say "on debut he was booked after five seconds against Ipswich, Norwich's local rivals" and people would get the picture.
Reworded. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 17:19, 18 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The Wales section said he was leading scorer for Huddersfield in the first division, but they were in the third. I might also be inclined to say two and half years rather than "more than two" and you could perhaps mention Malcolm Allen was his former Watford teammate, but neither are essential.
Fixed division issue, other suggestions not adopted. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 17:19, 18 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

HornetMike cheers. Would you mind changing your header to reflect your support just to give the co-ordinators an easier time? Thanks. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 17:19, 18 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Comments by Oldelpaso[edit]

Hello guys, its been a while. Lets see if I can remember how this place works.

Would expect to see his international career addressed in the lead.
Added a sentence. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 23:41, 24 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Losing his teeth - presumably occurred playing football?
Roberts went up and down divisions a few times in his career, and its not always clear what level he was playing at. For example his Watford debut was in the top flight, moving to Huddersfield was a step down to play more.
That's a great comment. The Rambling Man, what do you think of adding a column in the table in the Legacy and career statistics section, that states what tier of English football each season was at that time? It's confusing even for English football cognoscenti, must be a minefield for anyone else. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 21:37, 28 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I didn't add a column, but I added some information in parentheses in the table and a sectional footnote. Is that enough m'lord? The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 21:53, 28 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I like it. What do you think, Oldelpaso? --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 22:04, 28 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The section about Wales is a bit disjointed, perhaps because his international career itself was. It'd be good to have some passages that put it into context. Was there a run of form that prompted call-ups? Injuries to regulars?
I'm not sure I'd call it disjointed, indeed if it was scattered through the domestic career it would be a nightmare to follow. I'll have a look to see if there's anything in the contemporaneous press about his form/selection. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 12:10, 27 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Playing style is always bound by what's in the sources for a journeyman. That said, there's a reference to him being part of a "big man, litte man" partnership, but the only place his height is mentioned is the infobox. Oldelpaso (talk) 12:51, 20 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Height is mentioned in the prose now, as part of another reviewer's comments to alleviate the use of citations in the infobox. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 12:10, 27 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Support from Girth Summit[edit]

Sports articles are not my usual bag, so some of my comments below might well be out of step with our norms - feel free to disregard any that are tosh.

Since the condition of his teeth is a significant-enough part of his persona for him to refer to it in the title of his autobiography, I wonder whether that could be expanded upon slightly - as Oldelpaso says, I assume that it happened playing football, but it would be nice if we could confirm that.
Teeth covered! The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 13:55, 29 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Norwich City section, second paragraph - He'd -> He had
Gah, avoid contractions. Done. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 23:54, 24 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Are we generally OK with phrases like 'clinically taken headed goal'? That seems a bit figurative/journalistic to my eye.
No, replaced with "header". The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 11:38, 27 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Is it normal to use nicknames - like the Canaries - to refer to the names of teams without explaining who it refers to?
No, that's been addressed. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 11:38, 27 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Gillingham and Cambridge United - perhaps link 'booked' to Penalty_card#Yellow_card?
Done. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 11:38, 27 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Link Craig Bellamy on first mention
Appears to have been done. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 11:38, 27 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

That's it from an initial read-through. GirthSummit _(blether) 11:07, 24 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Girth Summit I think we've covered your comments, could you let us know? Cheers. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 13:55, 29 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The Rambling Man Looking good. One more thought - do you think we should distance ourselves a bit further from Roberts's description of Wolves fans, perhaps with the insertion of a 'what he describes as' before the stuff about their arrogant etc behaviour? I realise we start the sentence with an attribution, but since the comments are so strong I wonder if we should be extra careful in our wording? I'll leave that to your discretion, I'm happy to support this for FA. GirthSummit _(blether) 14:07, 29 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Girth Summit Thanks, I'll talk it over with Dweller as I share your concerns on that one quote. Would you be able to change your section heading to say support if possible? Cheers, The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 17:19, 29 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Yep, done. GirthSummit _(blether) 18:17, 29 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Support by Lee Vilenski[edit]

I may end up claiming points towards the wikicup. Hope you don't mind! :P

Of course! The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 11:04, 27 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I'll take a look at this article, and give some comments on how it meets the FA criteria in a little while. If you fancy doing some QPQ, I have a list of items that can be looked at here. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:03, 24 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Not 100% familiar with BLPs at FAC, but I'd assume it's pretty much the same as the regular BLP policies, so if I see anything I'll bring it up. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:16, 24 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Watford as a trainee - trainee? I've never heard that term used in football before. Was he never an amateur? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:16, 24 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
It's a common term in association football in the UK. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 23:59, 24 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
overcame a weak start - how so? You mean he didn't score many goals? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:16, 24 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Well this is expanded upon in the main body, "weak" here covers the fans' perception of his general performances, including not scoring many goals. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 10:45, 27 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
two goals in his final game as Norwich achieved promotion to the Premier League and he was elected to the Norwich City F.C. Hall of Fame. - this does make it feel like he was elected the moment after his final game? I'd rephrase. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:16, 24 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Reworded. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 10:47, 27 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Since retiring as a player, Roberts, who speaks fluent Welsh - considering he is Welsh, is this even worth mentioning? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:16, 24 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Sure it is, many people born in Wales don't speak fluent Welsh. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 23:55, 24 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Some of the citations in the infobox could be put into prose - specifically the full name and date of birth. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:16, 24 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
All have been moved. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 10:52, 27 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
To me, signing a contract at 18, and within two months scoring a goal against United seems pretty incredible. Was there no feedback about his debut? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:38, 24 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Not really, United weren't that great at the time. Anyway, I've added a bit more detail around tehe goal. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 11:34, 27 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The watford section seems a little light, he did make 63 appearances there, afterall. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:38, 24 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Watford section has now been expanded. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 17:15, 29 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
, Peter Withe:[12] - not sure we need this citation, as it's duplicated at the end of the sentence. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:38, 24 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Agreed. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 11:04, 27 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
[16][17][18][19] - could we maybe bundle these citations? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:38, 24 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Bundling doesn't work when those references are re-used elsewhere in the article. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 11:04, 27 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Maybe worth describing/linking "derby". Especially as the first use is very close to Derby County. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:38, 24 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Linked. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 11:04, 27 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The first para of Leicester doesn't make much sense to me - why does he regret not scoring the hat-trick (more notable than any other win)? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:38, 24 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Not for us to say, it's his opinion. I guess he wanted to score a second-half hat-trick to win the game? The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 11:04, 27 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
As recently as 2017, this achievement is still recalled in a chant by Leicester City fans. - any expansion on this? I don't get the relevance. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:38, 24 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I guess the relevance is that fans still sing a song about a single (quick) hat-trick that was scored two decades ago makes it notable? The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 11:04, 27 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
1993–94 play-off final, which Leicester won - perhaps mention the score, this is a very significant match. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:38, 24 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Added score, opposition and improved the link to an article which (eventually) be a lot better than it currently is...! The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 11:23, 27 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
but Roberts was top scorer - I'm asuming he was the top scorer for the club - not the league, right? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:38, 24 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Yes, added. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 11:23, 27 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Also, to that point, how many goals? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:38, 24 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Added that too. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 11:23, 27 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Although it was reported that Roberts had recovered from injury, - what injury? He wasn't swamped by performers, right? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:38, 24 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The source doesn't mention that. The point I guess is that it was unusual that one of the better players was fit and available for selection but didn't even make the bench. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 11:23, 27 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
one hat-trick for the club in a match against their local rivals West Bromwich Albion in the Black Country derby,[29] and, overall, scored 12 goals in 33 games - perhaps say that he scored 12 goals in 33 games in the season, including.... Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:38, 24 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thus re-worded. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 11:23, 27 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Is that all that happened in Wolves? I think this could be expanded somewhat. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:38, 24 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Wolves section has now been expanded. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 17:16, 29 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Walker was sacked at the end of the season, and Roberts blames himself for this happening – a result of his lack of goals.[31] Roberts himself has ascribed his slow start to his lack of physical conditioning. Walker left the club shortly before the end of the season and was replaced during the summer by Bruce Rioch. During pre-season training, Roberts weighed in at 15 stone 3 pounds (97 kg), with a body fat ratio of 16–17%, when his "fighting weight" should have been "just under 14 stone with around 13 per cent body fat." - is this cited to the ref after the next quote? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:38, 24 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Aye. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 11:23, 27 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
"in partnership with the flourishing talent of Craig Bellamy" - did Roberts say this? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:38, 24 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
No, that was the EDP, thus attributed. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 11:23, 27 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Roberts was known for scoring a high proportion of his goals with his head. - perhaps "proportion of his goals as headers" Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:38, 24 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Sort of. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 11:23, 27 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
playing up-front with Bellers - playing up-front with [Bellamy] - not everyone is making that connection. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:38, 24 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Done. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 11:23, 27 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Lee Vilenski I believe we've addressed and/or responded to all of your comments. Thanks for your review! Cheers. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 17:17, 29 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I think so, I'm happy here, unless someone drags up something major I've missed. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 18:37, 29 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Source review: pass[edit]

Formatting and consistency

Why do some book sources use short citations, and others long? See "Bellamy 2013, pp. 46–50" compared with "Hugman, Barry J., ed. (2005). The PFA Footballers' Who's Who 2005/2006. Harpenden: Queen Anne Press. p. 348. ISBN 1-85291-662-1." – Be consistent.
If a book is used more than once with different page(s), it appears as a short citation, if it's used just once, it appears long. That's consistent. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 10:11, 6 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
But "Bellamy 2013" is only used once? Harrias ^talk 11:55, 6 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Addressed now. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 14:41, 6 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Mark ref #5 ("Diary of a footballing nomad") as |url-status=dead so that the archive link is the more prominent. Actually: ref #67, "Roberts, Iwan (10 May 2005)" appears to be the same as ref #5, but with a working link and more details.
Done. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 10:19, 6 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Add a publisher for ref #8 "Bodell, Tom (24 September 2013)".
Done. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 10:19, 6 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Give Matt Rowson author credit for ref #12 "Iwan Roberts scored his first senior goal 28 years ago today when Watford beat Manchester United"
Done. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 10:19, 6 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Ref #25, "Ross, James M." has a last updated date at the bottom of the page, add this as the date of publication.
Done. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 10:19, 6 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Ref #33, "Former Player Remembers: Iwan Roberts", add the author details.
Done. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 10:19, 6 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Is there a reason ref #35 quotes the article, where most other references do not?
Not really but I don't see any harm being done here. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 10:19, 6 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Ref #39 needs a space after the full-stop at the end. Ideally, it would be split into its own "Notes" section, but that isn't a requirement.
Done. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 10:34, 6 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Be consistent about whether you list Centurycomm as the publisher for Soccerbase; some references do, and other don't.
Done. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 10:34, 6 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Close the quotation marks in ref #46 (Roberts 2004, pp. 35–36)
Done. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 10:34, 6 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Ref #51, "Roberts 2004, pp. 62–3" the page range should be "62–63"
Done. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 10:34, 6 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Ref #63, "Roberts joins Gills", looks like WalesOnline should be added as the work.
Done. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 10:34, 6 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Ref #66, "Roberts makes 'bitter' Gills exit", and ref #70, "Roberts makes 'bitter' Gills exit" are the same.
Done. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 10:34, 6 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Ref #68, "Iwan Roberts – In Focus", Andrea Thrussell appears to be the author.
Indeed, that's already there. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 10:34, 6 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Ummm, it's not. Oh, I see. This (now ref #67) is a duplicate of ref #2, but with missing details. Merge needed. Harrias ^talk 11:55, 6 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@The Rambling Man: This one is still outstanding. Harrias ^talk 14:44, 6 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Harrias done now. Cheers. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 14:53, 6 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Ref #69, "Cambridge United Potted History" says that it is from "15 July 2007", but the archive date is 13 days earlier, "2 July 2007", and the last updated date on the page itself is "6 December 2006".
Done. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 10:34, 6 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Ref #83, "Hodgkinson, Mark (22 October 2004)" doesn't work, just goes to the Torygraph home page for me.
Indeed, that's deader than dead. Dweller may need to locate a new one. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 10:34, 6 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Looks like it is this one? Again, a subscription tag will be needed. Harrias ^talk 14:32, 6 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Lovely, replaced and padlock added. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 14:41, 6 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Ref #84, "Gaustad, John (2 October 2004)", add |url-access=subscription tag.
Done. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 10:34, 6 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Oh, you also need to do that for all the BNA references.
Done. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 10:34, 6 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Ref #86, "Iwan hoping for Town party too!", I'm not sure where "icHuddersfield" comes from? Looks like "YorkshireLive" to me?
Done. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 10:34, 6 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Ref #97, "Rollin (ed.). Rothmans Football Yearbook 1994–95" is missing a lot of details, but I assume it is the same book as ref #31?
Done. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 10:34, 6 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
"Davage, Mark; Eastwood, John; Platt, Kevin (2001). Canary Citizens." seems to be listed, but not used?
Hidden for now. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 10:34, 6 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Quality and coverage

What makes wfc.net a reliable source?
As TRM says just below, HornetMike's expert say-so - see above, 08:54, 20 July 2020 --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 18:59, 9 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Okay, I'll rephrase this. To me, this looks like a self-published source, or at least one with no clear editorial oversight. As such, I need convincing that it meets the FACR 1c requirement for "high-quality reliable sources". Harrias ^talk 08:26, 12 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Commented out and rephrased article. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 13:23, 13 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
What makes "Watford Archive" a reliable source?
HornetMike, you recommended the use of these, would you be kind enough to explain to Harrias why they can be considered RS? Cheers. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 15:06, 6 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Hi, Watford Archive is the site of the now-deceased Watford historian Trefor Jones, who wrote several books on the club (see Watford F.C. cites). The database behind wfc.net was created from Jones's match research, its focus is therefore a bit narrower. I can see why you might not fancy wfc.net on my say so, but I think Watford Archive definitely stands up on its own. HornetMike (talk) 15:57, 18 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

As above for this one. Harrias ^talk 08:26, 12 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Commented out and rephrased article. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 13:23, 13 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
What makes "My Football Writer" a reliable source?
It's a credited extract from the book, with the approval of the authors. I think it's reliable for what it claims. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 19:00, 9 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Ah, I see. Add information on the extract into the citation to make this clearer. Harrias ^talk 08:26, 12 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Added a "via" and a first/last. If you want something different, could you let me know explicitly please? The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 13:28, 13 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
What makes "Good news for Norwich" a reliable source?

Not convinced it is. It's a Norfolk Christian news website. It's a fairly minor claim. We could remove the claim altogether if you prefer, I find nothing else on it. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 19:11, 9 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

If it can't be cited elsewhere, then it should be removed, yes. Harrias ^talk 08:26, 12 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Done --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 09:47, 12 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

More to follow. Harrias ^talk 07:32, 6 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Harrias I've done the "technical" ones bar one dead link, Dweller can make the cases for the RS queries, and hopefully find a replacement for the dead one. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 10:34, 6 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Harrias okay, first pass done (apart from the RS), ready when you are for any more "technical" issues. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 14:41, 6 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

That looks to be it on formatting and consistency, I think it is mostly waiting on the RS queries. Harrias ^talk 15:01, 6 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Harrias I think your comments have been adressed. Do let me know if there's anything else, cheers. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 13:28, 13 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Yup, I'm happy that this meets the FA sourcing criteria. I can't remember if I said, but obligatory notice that I will claim WikiCup points for this review. Harrias ^talk 13:45, 13 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thank you, Harrias --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 14:50, 16 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

More formatting from Noswall59[edit]

I hope you (TRM and Harrias) don't mind if I chime in with some further formatting queries.

Refs 1, 9 to Hugman (2005): shouldn't these be Harvard style as per the logic above?
I'm going to revise these all I think, and use ((sfn)) instead. I'll let you know when I'm done. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 12:55, 13 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Just a note that refs #1 and #9 are different books, so discussion above about Harvard style need not apply. Harrias ^talk 13:44, 13 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
All of the books are missing publisher locations; I don't know whether this is necessary
There are lots of fields in the ((cite book)) template that aren't filled in, I think what's there is what's required to be able to suitably identify the source in order to verify each claim. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 12:54, 13 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Ref 74: remove rogue asterisk before the author's name
Done. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 12:51, 13 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
it's normal practice (and certainly easier for navigation purposes) to have a sub-header for the citations and another for the books cited (i.e. bibliography)
I've seen it both ways in FAs, but it's no big deal. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 12:43, 13 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
in some footnotes, the article titles are in sentence case, but in others each word is capitalised (e.g., refs 10, 51, 56, 66, 80, 88, 44, 33, 32, 25 all have mixed capitalisation or capitalise each word in article titles).
Usually follow the source unless it's all capitalised in which case it's reduced down to sentence case. It's primarily to ensure avoidance of linkrot so I see no major issue. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 12:43, 13 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Should 11v11 simply be cited as 11v11 rather than 11v11.com (the BBC is not cited as bbc.co.uk)?
Not wed it, removed. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 12:50, 13 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Wikilink Express and Star (other paper names and websites are wikilinked).
Done. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 12:43, 13 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Why are some websites italicised and others not (e.g. Soccerbase, but not BBC Sport)?
Convention really. I've always considere BBC Sport to be a publisher. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 12:43, 13 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Wikilink WalesOnline to Media Wales#WalesOnline
Linked. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 12:50, 13 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Ref 35: there are nested double quotes; use double quotes then single quotes. There is also an asterisk after the word "blooming" which appears to be rogue
Done. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 12:53, 13 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Ref 39: needs a space before "Roberts".
Done. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 12:50, 13 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I'm sure Harrias will mention this (unless I'm being ignorant about the quality of this source of course – football is not my forté), but what makes 11v11 a reliable source?
It's published by the Association of Football Statisticians and is considered reliable. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 12:43, 13 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Many thanks, —Noswall59 (talk) 11:11, 13 August 2020 (UTC).Reply[reply]

Noswall59 cheers, I've responded to all the points above, one major outstanding issue which I won't be able to address until this evening. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 12:55, 13 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The Rambling Man thanks. I've just made a few minor tweaks. All looks good to me now. Cheers, —Noswall59 (talk) 15:54, 13 August 2020 (UTC).Reply[reply]

Image review—pass[edit]

Image licensing and placement are suitable, no issues (t · c) buidhe 20:14, 13 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Cheers. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 20:32, 13 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thank you, buidhe --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 14:49, 16 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@WP:FAC coordinators: I think we're done here? Cheers. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 20:32, 13 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Coord note[edit]

@Oldelpaso and HornetMike: How are things looking to you? --Ealdgyth (talk) 14:49, 15 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

We have tried this (I pinged HornetMike on 30 July and Dweller pinged Oldelpaso on 28 July), but both are pretty much semi-retired, Mike has made 250 edits in the last 2.5 years while Oldelpaso took more than seven years to rack up his last 250 contribs... The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 16:18, 15 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

TRM... oddly enough, I did see the pings, but yes, it's just part of being a coord to do my own pings. Sometimes pings from a coord get more response than ones for other editors. I appreciate your attempts to help out ... and mostly they work fine, but please do let the coords do their own pings and other stuff as they see fit. --Ealdgyth (talk) 14:18, 16 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

No need for exasperation, I don't see a good reason why any one ping is more likely to have an impact than any other to be frank, but hey. Another week's wait I guess. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 14:46, 16 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I'm happy to wait another week. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 14:49, 16 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I am hoping it won't be more than a day or two. Assuming that my sinuses don't make me sick again. --Ealdgyth (talk) 15:03, 16 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FAC/ar, and leave the ((featured article candidates)) template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through.

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.