- The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The article was promoted by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 11 September 2021 [1].
- Nominator(s): — Amakuru (talk) 10:57, 9 August 2021 (UTC); The Rambling Man[reply]
This article is about the final of Euro 2008, that year's edition of Europe's premier association football (soccer) competition for national teams. The finalists were Germany and Spain, with the latter winning 1–0 to record the first of three consecutive major competition wins, including wins in the 2010 FIFA World Cup Final and the UEFA Euro 2012 Final. I am working on this article jointly with User:The Rambling Man, and this is thus a co-nomination. Looking forward to any reviews, and we will endeavour to respond to all points made in a prompt fashion. — Amakuru (talk) 10:57, 9 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Image review[edit]
- Image licensing is satisfactory. The only issue I see is using a table to enclose a single image in statistics section, which forces a specific pixel width: should not be done "Except with very good reason" according to MOS. (t · c) buidhe 11:42, 9 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks @Buidhe:. I have switched that image to just be a thumb. It was an oversight on my part, as originally there was a two-image gallery there, but I moved one of them up to the infobox. Cheers — Amakuru (talk) 13:24, 9 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Comment My first impression on reading through is that as a description of events that evening the article does a good job. However, the article could do more in terms of putting the match in a wider context. Prior to this match Spain were perennial underachievers who hadn't won a tournament in 44 years. What were the expectations going into the match? My memory is that they were tournament favourites, were they? How many fans travelled from the respective countries? What was the mood in each country? The tournament was the first triumph of the "tiki-taka" style that would dominate at both international and club level for the next few years. The term "tiki-taka" doesn't appear once. Oldelpaso (talk) 15:17, 9 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- @Oldelpaso: I have added some pre-match info on the "mood" in Spain and Germany, and also added detail on the tiki-taka style to the aftermath section. Cheers — Amakuru (talk) 12:01, 31 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I'll begin a review of this article very soon! My reviews tend to focus on prose and MOS issues, especially on the lede, but I will also comment on anything that could be improved. I'll post up some comments below over the next couple days, which you should either respond to, or ask me questions on issues you are unsure of. I'll be claiming points towards the wikicup once this review is over.
- Lede
- Ernst-Happel-Stadion, Vienna, on 29 June 2008, - could we say Austria? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 10:01, 16 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- But it was Spain who took the lead - feels a bit editorialy to me. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 10:01, 16 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Andrés Iniesta and Dani Güiza had good chances to double Spain's lead, while Michael Ballack's attempted equaliser went narrowly wide, but the game finished with no further goals - a few grammar issues here. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 10:01, 16 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- All done. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 18:25, 22 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Prose
- Additional comments
Additionally, if you liked this review, or are looking for items to review, I have some at my nominations list. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 09:52, 16 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Lee Vilenski all done, thanks for the review, let us know if there's anything else required. Cheers. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 18:33, 22 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- The statistics table needs a header/SR. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 17:53, 23 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Done. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 07:34, 24 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- alt text is required. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 17:53, 23 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Done. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 07:34, 24 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- We don't have an article for mixed zone in German. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 17:53, 23 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- We do, it's at Mixed Zone. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 07:30, 24 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- There are some harvard citation errors. I think you are missing publication year. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 17:53, 23 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Done. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 07:34, 24 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Reserving rights to relook at this if someone brings something up, but cover the above and I'll be happy. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 17:53, 23 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Lee Vilenski thanks, addressed those issues too. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 07:34, 24 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Support from Girth Summit[edit]
- "Spain had advanced to the round-of-16 in 2006," Why is 'round-of-16' hyphenated? It doesn't seem necessary to me, and Googling it tells me that the BBC, the Washington Post, and UEFA themselves don't hyphenate.
- Done. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 10:12, 27 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- "the largest stadium of the eight Euro 2008 venues" I assume this means there were eight used in the knock-out part of the tournament, presumably there lots used in the group stages? Worth clarifying?
- Clarified. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 10:12, 27 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- "scored from a 30 yards (27 m) free kick" I know that this is coming from the convert template, but shouldn't it be "a 30-yard free kick"?
- Indeed,
adj=on added. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 10:12, 27 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- "Roman Pavlyuchenko scored for Russia 4 minutes before the end, before Spain..." --> Four not 4? (MOS:NUMERAL) Also rephrase to avoid the double 'before'?
- The "4" is MOSNUM for consistent formatting of comparable values, and that para has other such values, like 24 etc. Revised the double before. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 10:12, 27 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Why is the coverage of Spain's quarter-final against Italy so much more detailed than that of their semi-final against Russia - can the latter be expanded at all?
- Amakuru any thoughts? The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 10:12, 27 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- I've expanded it from my book. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 10:21, 27 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Oh yes, apologies about that - I'm not entirely sure why I wrote so little detail on that match. Thanks for the expansion, TRM. I've added a little more on the third goal myself, taking it to 147 words compared to 171 for the quarter final. A lot of the latter is due to describing the penalty shoot-out. If there's more needed, let me know and I can add. — Amakuru (talk) 10:48, 27 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- ..."at the end of a sunny day, in front of an attendance of 51,428." Is an attendance something you can be in front of? Perhaps crowd, or audience?
- Reworded. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 10:12, 27 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- "...another attack on 4 minutes when Ballack's...", "On 7 minutes, Germany...", "...the game on 9 minutes," Write out the words for single-digit numbers?
- See above. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 10:12, 27 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- How did Ballack injure his eye?
- Neither source is clear on that. Let me check my books. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 10:12, 27 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Collided with Senna per my book, so added that. Cheers. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 10:14, 27 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
That's it from me. Girth Summit (blether) 12:05, 26 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Happy to support this now; I think the reader would like to know a little bit more about Spain's semi-final, but I'll leave that to your judgment. Girth Summit (blether) 10:19, 27 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Girth Summit I've expanded that section now a little bit, hope it meets with your approval. Cheers for the review! The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 10:21, 27 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Yes, that looks good, thanks. Girth Summit (blether) 10:46, 27 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Support from Cas Liber[edit]
Looking over now...
Germany had several early attacks, as The Guardian's Scott Murray commented that Spain had "started very poorly". - the quoted bit makes it makes it scan oddly, as if Scott Murray was the reason for Germany attacking. Maybe just say "Germany had several early attacks, as Spain started slowly/struggled to find form/find t heir rhythm." alternative used works (hadn't thought of that...)
Germany were pre-tournament favourites to win the final, followed by Spain, although their manager Luis Aragonés cautioned.... - you've changed subjects here - it reads like Luis Aragonés is Germany's manager grammatically.
Germany then had another attack on 4 minutes when Ballack's pass found Lahm in space on the left-hand side, but his cross did not reach a Spanish attacker. - err, shouldn't that be "German attacker"?
Otherwise looks good on comprehensiveness and prose...Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 04:54, 29 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Casliber, thanks for the review, I've addressed those issues! The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 10:15, 29 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@WP:FAC coordinators: as this now has the customary minimum requirements met, can I nominate another co-nom? The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 17:37, 2 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- @WP:FAC coordinators: as some of you may know, timing is of the essence. I see some of you have been around today. Would one of you be able to respond here? The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 21:28, 3 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Should we now assume WP:IAR applies and past performance is a guide to the future? I'll nominate another co-nom FAC and see what happens. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 13:21, 4 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Sorry for not getting to this sooner today, my time, but yes, past performance can be a guide, which is why I'd like us to wait until this has had a source review before another goes up. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 14:52, 4 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Ok. Source review was usually assumed fine for those of us with scores of FAs (combined), just a matter of fixing any issues once they arise. What has happened to this place...? And can you explain the logic behind that if you'd be so kind? What does a source review here mean to another nomination on an unrelated subject? Cheers. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 15:28, 4 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- It's not about the relationship of this article's sources to another's, just about this nom being on the cusp of promotion so that it's fine to open another. A source review is part of the minimum needed before considering promotion, which is why I wanted to wait. Yes, I would've been very surprised to see any show-stoppers, but this is the same standard the coords apply to all these requests. Anyway I can the SR is underway as we speak, if you can respond to it I'd have no probs with you kicking off another nom. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 00:47, 5 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Ian Rose that's now passed, so can I add another co-nom at this time? The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 19:06, 5 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Pls do. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 23:29, 5 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Ian Rose this is just hanging around with all the boxes ticked, one month in now, is there anything more that's required for you to promote? The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 20:16, 10 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Source review – Pass[edit]
Doing shortly. Aza24 (talk) 23:19, 4 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Formatting
- Retrieval dates are good throughout
- "the Guardian" should be capitalized (and presumably linked?) in ref 28
- Ref 7's "BBC Sport" isn't italicized like the rest
- ref 8 seems to be missing a website/work/publisher or something
- Ref 39 is the only one with "UEFA.com"—was this intentional?
- Reliability
- Throughout I'm seeing consistently high-quality sources (BBC, The Guardian or UEFA itself), but "Last Word on Football" (ref 48) stands out as less than ideal in this regard (seems to be less prestigious, less oversight and the "write for us" at the top doesn't exactly help convince otherwise!). In being a stickler (though I hope, not a nuisance) I would recommend such a source be switched out, unless it can be explained how its quality matches the FAC criteria. Other than that, there's no issues with reliabillity, though see below.
- Verifiability
- I find no issue with having a YouTube ref (ref 37) though I wonder if a time stamp or time range could be included to maximize verifiability. Aza24 (talk) 23:39, 4 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Aza24 I believe I have addressed all of these concerns. Thanks again for the review! (P.S. there's just one more lurking that would really benefit from your eagle eyes, if you have a moment?) The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 10:12, 5 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Looks good! Pass for source review. It looks like someone just grabbed the SR for the other. Best – Aza24 (talk) 18:39, 5 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.