The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by PresN via FACBot (talk) 00:25, 31 July 2020 (UTC) [1].[reply]

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List of Cardiff City F.C. internationals[edit]

List of Cardiff City F.C. internationals (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

• Featured list candidates/List of Cardiff City F.C. internationals/archive1

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Nominator(s): Kosack (talk) 18:08, 3 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The latest Cardiff City F.C. related list I've been working on. As far as I'm aware, no other internationals list has been promoted to FL status, so there's no basic template to follow but I think I've matched the standard up to previous promotions. I look forward to any comments. Kosack (talk) 18:08, 3 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comments on the lead

• Five pretty short paragraphs looks too many - suggest merging some
• "Jimmy Blair became the first Cardiff player from outside Wales" - maybe say "the first Cardiff player to represent a country other than Wales", as earlier players may have been from outside Wales (in terms of place of birth) but played for Wales
• "Alf Sherwood became the club's highest capped international player in the decade following the end of the Second World War" - this reads like he was the highest capped player in that decade specifically. I presume that is not what you mean?
• "Five Cardiff players were selected in the nation's 23-man squad for the competition, Colin Baker....." - comma before the first name should be a colon
• "Tony Vidmar became the first Cardiff player from outside the British Isles" - similar comment to above
• "Chris Gunter is the youngest ever Cardiff player" - think the word "ever" is unnecessary
• Think that's it on the lead, will look at the rest later -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 09:27, 4 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comments on the table

• Refs => Ref (as no row has more than one ref)
• Kim Bo-Kying's surname is Kim, so I would have thought he should sort under K
• Note a is not a complete sentence so doesn't need a full stop
• Think that's it -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 18:15, 4 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@ChrisTheDude: Thanks for the review, I've amended all of the points above. Let me know if there is anything else. Kosack (talk) 12:13, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

You've changed the Kim Bo-Kyung link to Bo-Kyung Kim, which is a redlink. I don't think you need to change how his name is shown, you just need to make it so that it sorts under K...... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 19:13, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ooops, amended that now. Kosack (talk) 06:07, 8 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@ChrisTheDude: Any chance that you could pop back and look at this one; an explicit support from you (if your concerns have been met) would give this the minimum three it needs. Harrias ^talk 12:01, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Humblest apologies, I thought I had already supported. Support -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 12:03, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment These "club's internationals" lists seems a little off to me. They're almost like the "club's foreign players" lists we deleted earlier, except they also include some domestic players. Plus, footballers get called up by their national team for various reasons besides club performance if that is what is supposed to be implied in the list. That's just my best guess to be honest. KingSkyLord (talk | contribs) 23:00, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  I'm not sure what relevance that has here really, international lists have been through AfD in the past and have remained. If you think they should be deleted, you need to start a new discussion somewhere. I'm not sure why that should stop me trying to get this promoted. Kosack (talk) 06:07, 8 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 09:14, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comments I don't recall having reviewed a list of this nature before, and I'm curious about the title. In my mind it should probably be "List of international footballers who played for Cardiff City F.C." or something. My concern is "internationals" has no bounds, and certainly in the good ol' days, international footballers were good all-round sportsmen and played international cricket as well. And interestingly, you note a nuance in the table caption, these are "full" internationals and not lower-level (e.g. U-21s) internationals... Certainly, as I noted above, this is probably the first list of this kind to come to FLC. The other comparables in Category:Lists of association football players by club in England use either internationals, international players and international footballers. Personally the players is probably the one I'd prefer. Thoughts on any of those options? Kosack (talk) 18:21, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply] I think my personal preference in there would be "List of Cardiff City F.C. international footballers". And there needs a hefty caveat saying these are only full internationals right from the get-go. But it's worth waiting for others to chip in rather than just go with my ideas! The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 07:34, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply] " a Welsh professional association football club based in Cardiff, Wales. " not sure you need to clarify Cardiff is in Wales really. - Removed "Cardiff City Football Club is a Welsh professional association football club based in Cardiff, Wales. The club ..." count the "club"s... - Removed "when he played Scotland later " played for Scotland. - Fixed And against whom? - Added What makes http://nifootball.blogspot.com/ a reliable source? NIFG was challenged a few years ago, the resulting discussion was pretty conclusive on its reliability. Kosack (talk) 18:21, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply] " a World Cup during" could link generic FIFA World Cup here. - Added "won at least one international cap " this is where you need to be more descriptive I think: at least one full* [i.e. senior cap] international association football cap...?> - Reworded Intl. Years -> Intl. years - Fixed Could note Kenwyne is top international scorer? - Added "Kim Bo-Kyung" appears to be Kim Bo-kyung. - Fixed Convert all ISBN to consistent format (at ISBN.org's coverter). Ref 8 is the same as ref 3. - Fixed Ref 43 has no accessdate. - Fixed That's all I have for now. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 12:40, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply] @The Rambling Man: Thanks for the review. I've responded to each of your comments above, let me know what you think. Kosack (talk) 18:21, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Support my comments addressed. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 09:14, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Source review from Harrias – pass

I will claim WikiCup points for the review.

• "Davies, Gareth M; Garland, Ian (1991)." is included in the Bibliography, but not used.

  As part of note b, it's one of the sources used to provide the statistics for the table. Kosack (talk) 06:23, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Ref #3 cites "Hayes 2002", is this meant to be "Hayes, Dean P. (2004)"? - Fixed
• What makes the website "Northern Ireland Footballing Greats" a reliable source?

  TRM also brought this site up above, here is a link to a discussion over its inclusion. I think there were further discussions somewhere along the same lines that considered it reliable, I can try and dig these up too if you need them. Kosack (talk) 06:23, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  Honestly, I'm not that convinced by an 11-year-old discussion that never really addressed the specifics of WP:RS. In this case, delving a bit deeper, I can't see that the source provided actually backs up the statement that "Goalkeeper Tom Farquharson remains the only Cardiff player to have appeared for two international sides, having represented both Ireland and the Irish Free State in the 1920s." It does say that he played for both Ireland and the Irish Free State, but I don't see where it says that he was the only Cardiff player to have appeared for two international sides. If the source is only being used to establish that he played for both Ireland and the Irish Free State, we have much higher quality sources which also say that, such as this or this. Harrias ^talk 07:33, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  I've replaced NIFG if you're not comfortable with the source. You're right about the info too, I should have repeated another ref there to cover that. Amended now. Kosack (talk) 08:41, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Why is "Holt, Nick (2014)" included in the specific references, rather than the bibliography? A page number needs including for this source.

  When a book is referencing a single fact, I tend to just include it as a specific red rather than list it in the bibliography. Unfortunately, as it's from Google Book, I don't have a page number. Kosack (talk) 06:23, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  As the link goes straight to the page, it isn't too much of an issue; but the URL gives a page identifier: &pg=PT123. Harrias ^talk 07:33, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  Wow, that's a handy tip! Cheers. Kosack (talk) 08:41, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Ref #9, Bleacher Report should be the work, not the publisher. - Fixed
• Ref #29 has a typo in the date: "2 Mayb2020". - Fixed

That's it from me on the sourcing. I will aim to complete a full article review at some point too. Harrias ^talk 11:03, 29 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• @Harrias: Sorry for my late replies here. Amended or responded to all these points now, thanks for taking a look. Kosack (talk) 06:23, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  Nice work on this, I'm happy that the sourcing meets the FLC requirements. Harrias ^talk 08:45, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from Giants2008 (Talk) 23:26, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comments – I noticed a few of the items that Harrias pointed out and won't repeat them, but these are other small issues I found: Is "from outside British Isles" meant to be "from outside the British Isles"? Kenwyne Jones is misspelled in the lead, which is laid bare by the red link. Instead of having a plain "List" section heading. why not try "Players" or "Internationals". The Jay Bothroyd caption has a "represented" that needs fixing. Giants2008 (Talk) 22:35, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply] @Giants2008: Thanks for taking a look, amended these points now. Kosack (talk) 06:25, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Support – All of my concerns have been addressed. Giants2008 (Talk) 23:26, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Promoting. --PresN 22:14, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FLC/ar, and leave the ((featured list candidates)) template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through.

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.