The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Matthewedwards 18:04, 8 August 2009 [1].

List of Copa Libertadores winners[edit]

Nominator(s): NapHit (talk) 15:23, 19 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Featured list candidates/List of Copa Libertadores winners/archive1

Featured list removal candidates/List of Copa Libertadores winners/archive1

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I am nominating this for featured list because I feel that is now at a the necessary level required to become a Featured List. Cheers NapHit (talk) 15:23, 19 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Image needs alternative text. Dabomb87 (talk) 16:00, 19 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

If you're talking about the image in the lead, then I'm pretty it does. NapHit (talk) 18:51, 19 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

No, it only has a caption. Alternative text is different; see WP:ALT. Dabomb87 (talk) 19:03, 19 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Dabs; please check the disambiguation links identified in the toolbox. Dabomb87 (talk) 20:54, 20 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Done both your requests. NapHit (talk) 19:30, 21 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from Truco
Comments from Truco (talk · contribs) General Dabs and external links check out fine. Lead The Copa Libertadores is a seasonal association football competition established in 1960. -- I think it would help if you mentioned exactly when its held. The Copa Libertadores is open to the league champions of all Confederación Sudamericana de Fútbol (CONMEBOL) member associations, clubs finishing from second to fourth position in the strongest leagues are also included. -- 1)The comma should be a semicolon 2)What does strongest leagues mean? Originally, only the champions of their respective national league could participate in the competition; however during the 1970s this was changed to allow the runners-up of the stronger leagues to compete. -- Comma after 1970s, and is there link to national league for soccer? Peñarol won the inaugural competition in 1960 beating Olimpia over two legs in the final. -- Instead of beating how about defeating? Also add a comma before the word. Independiente hold the record for the most victories, they have won the competition seven times since its inception. --> Independiente hold the record for the most victories, with seven since its inception. [the only thing is what the its is referring to, the club or the cup?] They have also won the competition the most times in a row, winning it four times from 1972 to 1975. -- Instead of in a row, use consecutively Boca Juniors are second with six wins, they won their last title in 2007. -- The comma should be a semicolon. Clubs from Argentina have won the most Copa Libertadores, with 21 wins between them. -- Unlink Argentina -- per WP:OVERLINK Brazilian teams are second with 13 victories, and Uruguayan clubs are third with 8 victories.[1] -- Unlink Brazil -- per WP:OVERLINK The lead should state a bit more, like the overall number of winners; which country has had the most representatives at the cup; the highest scores; etc List 1–1 on aggregate Once Caldas won 2–0 in a penalty shootout * -- Comma is missing 2–2 on points Independiente won playoff 2–1 at Estadio Centenario † -- Comma is missing Results by teams The dashes should be left aligned like the rest of the entries I personally think it looks better in the middle, but if consensus is to change then I will agree. NapHit (talk) 21:49, 23 July 2009 (UTC)[reply] Flamengo and Racing club need dashes for the Years runner ups Each dash should be changed to an emdash, if they are already not that. Everything else checks out fine.--Truco ₅₀₃ 19:44, 23 July 2009 (UTC)[reply] Dealt with all your requests. NapHit (talk) 21:49, 23 July 2009 (UTC)[reply] One more thing, 2–2 on points; playoff 1–1, Argentinos won 5– in a penalty shootout at Estadio Defensores del Chaco * 5-? I believe another # is missing, correct?--Truco ₅₀₃ 01:41, 25 July 2009 (UTC)[reply] Fixed the mistake, cheers NapHit (talk) 15:02, 27 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from Truco

Comments from Truco (talk · contribs)

General

Dabs and external links check out fine.

Lead

The Copa Libertadores is a seasonal association football competition established in 1960. -- I think it would help if you mentioned exactly when its held.
The Copa Libertadores is open to the league champions of all Confederación Sudamericana de Fútbol (CONMEBOL) member associations, clubs finishing from second to fourth position in the strongest leagues are also included. -- 1)The comma should be a semicolon 2)What does strongest leagues mean?
Originally, only the champions of their respective national league could participate in the competition; however during the 1970s this was changed to allow the runners-up of the stronger leagues to compete. -- Comma after 1970s, and is there link to national league for soccer?
Peñarol won the inaugural competition in 1960 beating Olimpia over two legs in the final. -- Instead of beating how about defeating? Also add a comma before the word.
Independiente hold the record for the most victories, they have won the competition seven times since its inception. --> Independiente hold the record for the most victories, with seven since its inception. [the only thing is what the its is referring to, the club or the cup?]
They have also won the competition the most times in a row, winning it four times from 1972 to 1975. -- Instead of in a row, use consecutively
Boca Juniors are second with six wins, they won their last title in 2007. -- The comma should be a semicolon.
Clubs from Argentina have won the most Copa Libertadores, with 21 wins between them. -- Unlink Argentina -- per WP:OVERLINK
Brazilian teams are second with 13 victories, and Uruguayan clubs are third with 8 victories.[1] -- Unlink Brazil -- per WP:OVERLINK
The lead should state a bit more, like the overall number of winners; which country has had the most representatives at the cup; the highest scores; etc

List

1–1 on aggregate Once Caldas won 2–0 in a penalty shootout * -- Comma is missing
2–2 on points Independiente won playoff 2–1 at Estadio Centenario † -- Comma is missing

Results by teams

The dashes should be left aligned like the rest of the entries

I personally think it looks better in the middle, but if consensus is to change then I will agree. NapHit (talk) 21:49, 23 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Flamengo and Racing club need dashes for the Years runner ups
Each dash should be changed to an emdash, if they are already not that.

Everything else checks out fine.--Truco ₅₀₃ 19:44, 23 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Dealt with all your requests. NapHit (talk) 21:49, 23 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

One more thing, 2–2 on points; playoff 1–1, Argentinos won 5– in a penalty shootout at Estadio Defensores del Chaco * 5-? I believe another # is missing, correct?--Truco ₅₀₃ 01:41, 25 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed the mistake, cheers NapHit (talk) 15:02, 27 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Support -- Previous issues resolved/clarified; list now meets WP:WIAFL.--Truco ₅₀₃ 19:14, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 20:11, 1 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)
Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs) The alt text is still not there. See Wikipedia:Alternative text for images#Flawed and better examples for what I mean. "The Copa Libertadores is a seasonal association football competition established in 1960." Insert "that was" before "established"; it makes for better reading. "league champions of ~~all~~ Confederación Sudamericana de Fútbol (CONMEBOL) member associations" "however during the 1970s"-->however, during the 1970s "Independiente hold the record"-->Independientes hold the record "Boca Juniors are second with six wins, they won their last title in 2007. " Semicolon, not comma. "Peñarol are third with five wins, though their last title was in 1987."-->Peñarol are third with five wins, their most recent of which was in 1987. "Peñarol and América de Cali hold the distinction of losing the most finals, each team has lost the final on four separate occasions."-->Peñarol and América de Cali have lost the most finals; each team has lost the final on four occasions. "with 21 wins between them. "-->with 21 wins among them. We shouldn't be using bold to note things; use italics instead. Why is bold no longer used, I see no reason why it shouldn't be. NapHit (talk) 21:24, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply] WP:MOSBOLD. Yes, reviewers have been lax about this in the past, but we're cracking down on things that we didn't bother about a few months before. Dabomb87 (talk) 21:29, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply] Key needs a note explaining that each year links to an article about a Copa Libertadores for that year. In the colspans, use semicolons, not commas, to set off phrases. Example: "2–2 on points, Independiente won playoff 2–1 at Estadio Centenario †"-->2–2 on points; Independiente won playoff 2–1 at Estadio Centenario † "2–2 on points Independiente won playoff 2–0 at Estadio Defensores del Chaco"-->2–2 on points; Independiente won playoff 2–0 at Estadio Defensores del Chaco Dabomb87 (talk) 02:55, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply] Other the bold issue all requests done. NapHit (talk) 21:24, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply] I still don't see alt text. Dabomb87 (talk) 21:29, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply] Done the italics, I really don't know what to put for alt text, so hopefully, after your edit it's alright? NapHit (talk) 21:51, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply] I did not put in alt text; I just copy-edited the caption. Alt text is used to describe images for those who cannot see them. While captions "interpret" or explain the importance of the image, alt text merely describes the image. Here's an example: `[[File:FamousFootballPlayer.jpg\|thumb\|alt=Man kicking a ball (this is the alt text)\|Mr. Football is the best soccer player in the world (this is the caption)]]`. Obviously, you should be more descriptive, but that's the gist of it. Dabomb87 (talk) 21:55, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply] Chnged it again, think I've got it now? NapHit (talk) 22:02, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply] Unfortunately not. Captions and alt text are different things, and the image needs both. I've added an empty `alt=` to the image so that you know where to put it. The alt text should describe the appearance of the trophy (color, shape, size, etc.). Dabomb87 (talk) 22:05, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply] Is everything in order now? NapHit (talk) 15:02, 27 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)

Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs)

The alt text is still not there. See Wikipedia:Alternative text for images#Flawed and better examples for what I mean.
"The Copa Libertadores is a seasonal association football competition established in 1960." Insert "that was" before "established"; it makes for better reading.
"league champions of ~~all~~ Confederación Sudamericana de Fútbol (CONMEBOL) member associations"
"however during the 1970s"-->however, during the 1970s
"Independiente hold the record"-->Independientes hold the record
"Boca Juniors are second with six wins, they won their last title in 2007. " Semicolon, not comma.
"Peñarol are third with five wins, though their last title was in 1987."-->Peñarol are third with five wins, their most recent of which was in 1987.
"Peñarol and América de Cali hold the distinction of losing the most finals, each team has lost the final on four separate occasions."-->Peñarol and América de Cali have lost the most finals; each team has lost the final on four occasions.
"with 21 wins between them. "-->with 21 wins among them.
We shouldn't be using bold to note things; use italics instead.

Why is bold no longer used, I see no reason why it shouldn't be. NapHit (talk) 21:24, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

WP:MOSBOLD. Yes, reviewers have been lax about this in the past, but we're cracking down on things that we didn't bother about a few months before. Dabomb87 (talk) 21:29, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Key needs a note explaining that each year links to an article about a Copa Libertadores for that year.
In the colspans, use semicolons, not commas, to set off phrases. Example: "2–2 on points, Independiente won playoff 2–1 at Estadio Centenario †"-->2–2 on points; Independiente won playoff 2–1 at Estadio Centenario †
"2–2 on points Independiente won playoff 2–0 at Estadio Defensores del Chaco"-->2–2 on points; Independiente won playoff 2–0 at Estadio Defensores del Chaco Dabomb87 (talk) 02:55, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Other the bold issue all requests done. NapHit (talk) 21:24, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I still don't see alt text. Dabomb87 (talk) 21:29, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Done the italics, I really don't know what to put for alt text, so hopefully, after your edit it's alright? NapHit (talk) 21:51, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I did not put in alt text; I just copy-edited the caption. Alt text is used to describe images for those who cannot see them. While captions "interpret" or explain the importance of the image, alt text merely describes the image. Here's an example:

[[File:FamousFootballPlayer.jpg|thumb|alt=Man kicking a ball (this is the alt text)|Mr. Football is the best soccer player in the world (this is the caption)]]

. Obviously, you should be more descriptive, but that's the gist of it. Dabomb87 (talk) 21:55, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Chnged it again, think I've got it now? NapHit (talk) 22:02, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately not. Captions and alt text are different things, and the image needs both. I've added an empty alt= to the image so that you know where to put it. The alt text should describe the appearance of the trophy (color, shape, size, etc.). Dabomb87 (talk) 22:05, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Is everything in order now? NapHit (talk) 15:02, 27 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sources look good. Dabomb87 (talk) 20:11, 1 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

~~Spell out CONMEBOL, FIFA and RSSSF in the publishers of the references. No need to spell out CNN or BBC.~~ Dabomb87 (talk) 02:55, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose for now
- You link Uruguay but not Argentina.
- "...the most Copa Libertadores..." is this the correct pluralisation of Copa Libertadores? Could it be Copas Libertadores? I'm not sure myself.
- Agree that per WP:MOSBOLD we don't use bold to highlight things, "Use italics, not boldface, for emphasis in article text."
- And you currently use italics for something but am I missing where you explain what this means?
- Last column is called "Notes" but they are all references.
- When do you decide to relink in the table? For instance, you relink Penarol after five unlinked versions... you link every other instance of Olimpia the first couple of times, and then you don't for a while... what's the strategy for relinking here?

If it's a team that is featured loads then every five or so times, then i f it's a team like olimpia then every first time they are mentioned. NapHit (talk) 15:02, 27 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

- Not sure "Unión Española" sorts properly because of the diacritic on the o of Union.
- Same for São Paulo and São Caetano.
The Rambling Man (talk) 11:00, 25 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Done all requests NapHit (talk) 15:02, 27 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from Giants2008 (17–14) 18:25, 4 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Comments – "Penarol won the inaugural competition in 1960, defeating Olimpia over two legs in the final." It says in the previous sentence that the final is two-legged, so why does that need repeating? If there was a format change at some point, it would be understandable, but that doesn't appear to be the case. ~~Independientes hold the record for the most victories". Can we double-check the spelling of the club's name? I thought they were just Independiente, and our article on them implies the same.~~ Giants2008 (17–14) 01:47, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply] The International Herald-Tribune links are down. Their Internet site is merging with the New York Times, and whether links redirect correctly or not seemingly varies with each article. Unfortunately, these two don't. Giants2008 (17–14) 01:50, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply] Done all requests NapHit (talk) 15:44, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply] One more thing: the en dashes are centered in the team results table, but the years aren't, making it look unappealing for me. Can they be made consistent, one way or the other? Giants2008 (17–14) 22:25, 2 August 2009 (UTC)[reply] Done. Dabomb87 (talk) 23:57, 2 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from Giants2008 (17–14) 18:25, 4 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comments –

"Penarol won the inaugural competition in 1960, defeating Olimpia over two legs in the final." It says in the previous sentence that the final is two-legged, so why does that need repeating? If there was a format change at some point, it would be understandable, but that doesn't appear to be the case.
~~Independientes hold the record for the most victories". Can we double-check the spelling of the club's name? I thought they were just Independiente, and our article on them implies the same.~~ Giants2008 (17–14) 01:47, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The International Herald-Tribune links are down. Their Internet site is merging with the New York Times, and whether links redirect correctly or not seemingly varies with each article. Unfortunately, these two don't. Giants2008 (17–14) 01:50, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Done all requests NapHit (talk) 15:44, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

One more thing: the en dashes are centered in the team results table, but the years aren't, making it look unappealing for me. Can they be made consistent, one way or the other? Giants2008 (17–14) 22:25, 2 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Dabomb87 (talk) 23:57, 2 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Support – ~~Only other thing I spotted was in the references; ref 9 should have the publisher (Sports Illustrated) in italics.~~ Since everything else appears up to FL standards, I'll assume that this gets fixed quickly and won't postpone supporting the page. Giants2008 (17–14) 18:25, 4 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed that. Dabomb87 (talk) 18:30, 4 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.