The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Dabomb87 21:32, 9 June 2011 [1].

List of Seattle Mariners team records[edit]

List of Seattle Mariners team records (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): WikiProject Seattle Mariners, Albacore (talk) 01:47, 17 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Should be a nice addition to WikiProject Seattle Mariners. Albacore (talk) 01:47, 17 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 18:33, 24 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
  • I would introduce the team before saying how many times they've played in a league. i.e. "The Seattle Mariners are a Major League Baseball (MLB) team who have participated in 35 MLB seasons since.."

That's done.

  • Presumably they tied two matches? I would say that in the lead...

What do you mean?

The wins and losses don't add up to the total so it would be useful to clarify that two matches were tied. The Rambling Man (talk) 07:35, 21 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
That's odd, but fixed. Albacore (talk) 13:11, 21 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • "This list documents the superlative..." while we generally discourage this kind of prose in the lead, I find it okay, but only if it's the last thing you say before introducing the list. Perhaps consider making it the final sentence of the lead.

Moved to last sentence.

  • "of team members during their tenure as members " members, members... dull prose I'm afraid.

Reworded.

  • "season, with ten. Among the ten are records" why two sentences?

Now one sentence.

  • Caption: " playing for the Mariners in June of 2009" remove "of".

That's done.

  • Ref -> Ref(s).

I think leaving it as singular would be better.

But sometimes more than one ref is used, hence plural. The Rambling Man (talk) 07:08, 20 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

That's done.

  • –Present -> –present

That's done.

  • Mildly confused as to the usefulness of sortable tables when it seems we're sorting apples versus pears...

Can't hurt, especially if someone ever wanted to.

  • Fix the spaced hyphens to meet WP:DASH so they're en-dashes in the references.

So, for instance, reference five. You want me to put the ndash between history and baseball, right. I'd object to putting the ndash between Baseball - Reference.com because it doesn't look right. Albacore (talk) 13:38, 19 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

That's done.
  • What does [last update] mean in the references?
It comes up automatically in the cite for wiki Firefox thing. Would you like my to remove them?
What's their purpose? I've only starting seeing these in the last few days... The Rambling Man (talk) 07:59, 20 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Not sure. Possibly to see if the reference is up-to-date in its facts. Albacore (talk) 19:13, 20 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Albacore (talk) 13:15, 19 April 2011 (UTC) The Rambling Man (talk) 20:52, 18 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from KV5
Comments from KV5
  • Remove year links to baseball seasons in prose; per template documentation for ((by)) and ((mlby)), they are to be used only in lists and tables where it is clear their context is not simply a link to a year.

De-linked.

  • Cameron has four home runs in a game - no link to this FL in the lede?

Linked.

  • "Gene Walter, a Mariner for 1988 season" - missing the - for the 1988 season

Fixed.

  • "which he achieved on July 18, 1988" - redundant to say 1988 here when you already said it earlier in the same sentence

Removed 1988.

Linked.

  • "during their tenure" - should be tenures since you are referring to multiple players

Pluralized.

How do my tables differ any from List of Philadelphia Phillies team records, an FL, which I based the article from? Albacore (talk) 22:46, 27 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
They don't differ, but that's an older FL (which I know because I wrote it). The new criteria have more stringent requirements to meet WP:ACCESS. Don't worry, that one will be updated too; updating all of the FLs that I've nominated and had promoted to ACCESS-worthy status is a long-term goal of mine. — KV5 • Talk • 01:01, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I added scope tags to the columns and captions to the tables. Does this now pass WP:ACCESS? Albacore (talk) 12:30, 1 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
It's a good start. You still need row headers, and now the captions make the table subheaders extraneous, so those can be removed at this time. — KV5 • Talk • 12:33, 1 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Added row headers and removed sub-headers, and replaced colors. Anything else? Albacore (talk) 13:51, 1 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know why the colors were changed; background colors are much better than text coloring. Right now, the row headers are coded wrong. Since this is a list of records, the "record" column is probably the header, rather than the statistic or the player who holds the record, although there are good arguments for all three. But when using row headers, you can't have everything on one row of code; the header has to be on its own row or the last element in its row. I'll mark up one of the tables as an example. — KV5 • Talk • 16:17, 1 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
OK, the first table and the key are done as examples. You are probably going to want to adjust your colors because they are too dark for backgrounds. I just used the same ones that were there. — KV5 • Talk • 16:31, 1 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Good now? Albacore (talk) 18:18, 1 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Yep. — KV5 • Talk • 23:55, 5 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Replace daggers with ((dagger)) and appropriate alt text.

Done.

  • Why use a picture of Ichiro in a Japan uniform when there are five-plus pictures of his in his article in a Mariner uniform, most notably this one by the excellent Keith Allison?

Replaced.

  • Missing an en-dash in the "Career pitching" table
Actually there are no en-dashes in the career pitching table. Putting them in makes the years malfit the table. I don't know why that is, they are the only years like that, but I can't find a solution. Albacore (talk) 23:23, 24 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Um... they are all en-dashes except for 2005–present. — KV5 • Talk • 23:28, 24 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Look at the code. Albacore (talk) 23:32, 24 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
What about the code? Hyphens and en-dashes look identical in monospace font; that doesn't change the fact that they all need to be en-dashes. Hardcode the HTML entity if you've got to. — KV5 • Talk • 00:10, 25 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Done. Albacore (talk) 12:14, 27 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Mariner's franchise holder" - needs to be record holder and Mariners'

Done.

  • "Tied with John Dopson, Rick Honeycutt, Vic Raschi, and Bobby Witt." is a sentence fragment; remove period/full stop at the end

Removed period.

  • "Win-loss percentage" should be en-dash, not hyphen
Done.
Unspace this en-dash. — KV5 • Talk • 23:28, 24 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
It is unspaced. Looks wrong; probably leaving it as a hyphen would be better. Albacore (talk) 23:32, 24 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Ugh, no, it is not unspaced. You're using the en-dash template, which forces non-breaking spaces. Use the en-dash that's provided in the toolbox. And leaving it as a hyphen wouldn't be better because it's contrary to MOS:DASH. — KV5 • Talk • 00:53, 26 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Done. Albacore (talk) 12:14, 27 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hope these comments help. — KV5 • Talk • 19:49, 24 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from Giants2008 (27 and counting) 18:06, 5 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comments –
  • No need to repeat Ichiro's name in the lead.
Anything wrong with repeating his name? Albacore (talk) 22:38, 4 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I meant repeating his full first and last names. Normally it would be better to use the last name only for repeat mentions, but I'm not worrying about it because Ichiro's first name is used fairly often. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 18:06, 5 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • The last sentence of the lead would make more sense at the end of the first paragraph. That provides a nice segway into talking about the individual players.

Moved, does sound better there.

  • I'd think that being used by Baseball Digest as a reference source would help to establish reliability (see [2]), and has been praised by multiple baseball authors who have used it as a source. SABR also lists it as a web resource. — KV5 • Talk • 22:30, 24 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Reliable per above. Albacore (talk) 19:18, 1 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support quick revisit confirms that I have no further issues with the list, good work Albacore. The Rambling Man (talk) 14:57, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from Cheetah (talk)
  • Oppose per Criteria 3(a), 4 and 5(a)
    • It looks odd to see the table key in the lead. It should have its own section.
      • Own section added.
    • The order of the sections should be reasonable. Single-season, Career, and Single-game is out of any reasonable order. You should either choose biger-to-smaller order (Career, Single-season, and Single-game) or smaller-to-bigger order (Single-game, Single-season and Career)
      • Ordered.
    • Shouldn't the pitching statistics ref be right above the pitching statistics table?
      • Don't really see a problem, as long as the ref is under the same header that the stats are. Albacore (talk) 13:16, 29 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • The player names and statistics should be left-aligned for tidiness and readability.
      • Aligned.
    • What is the initial order of records in the table? It looks random, but I'm not sure.
      • Na, they're random.
        • Wouldn't it be better to hae some order, so that after using sortability, a reader could go back to initial order?--Cheetah (talk) 18:10, 29 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
          • Well, not completely random. Career + single-season batting stats are in some order (i.e singles, doubles, triples, home runs) and so are the single season + career pitching stats (wins, losses, win loss percentage) etc. Albacore (talk) 18:10, 30 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • The width of columns should be aligned with other table in the main section.
Done.
    • Why is there no section for team all-time records?
      • What do you mean?
        • Well, for example, you have how many home runs all Mariners had in one season. I want to know how many home runs all Mariners had all-time, i.e. in their history.--Cheetah (talk) 18:10, 29 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • Batting and pitching should have their own sections in the table of contents.
      • No, not with table headers, which make the sub-headers extraneous. Albacore (talk) 13:16, 29 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
        • You're right, but at the same time navigational issues arise. I'll think of some compromise.--Cheetah (talk) 18:10, 29 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • Why is there no section for team all-time records?
      • What do you mean?
        • Well, for example, you have how many home runs all Mariners had in one season. I want to know how many home runs all Mariners had all-time, i.e. in their history.--Cheetah (talk) 18:10, 29 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
          • If I may butt in, it looks like this page on Baseball-Reference has home runs and some other all-time stats. Unfortunately it only has basic stats, and the page on the Mariners doesn't seem to be of any help. Still, it's something. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 18:20, 5 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Section added. Albacore (talk) 12:43, 6 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

--Cheetah (talk) 07:56, 29 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from Wizardman Operation Big Bear 03:16, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
*Comments:
    • "Through April 11, 2011, they have played 5,394 games, winning 2,524, losing 2,868, and tying 2, for a winning percentage of .468" I would modify this as follows: 'Through the x season', since otherwise the lead is far too dynamic and would always feel out of date.
      • Changed.
    • Shouldn't the Season and ref columns be center-aligned? I could be wrong but I think numbers are supposed to be. Personally I'd prefer them all center'd but that's a cosmetic preference.
    • The "team season batting records" section is actually the entire history, so change the title.
      • Changed.
    • The stuff in the lead should probably be sourced. It's repetitive yes, but for lists that seems the norm.
      • Referenced.

Wizardman Operation Big Bear 15:46, 7 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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