The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Dabomb87 22:22, 22 May 2011 [1].

List of U.S. state horses[edit]

Featured list candidates/List of U.S. state horses/archive1

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Nominator(s): Dana boomer (talk) 23:33, 26 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I present the list of state horse breeds of the US for your consideration. I've been slowly working on this for the last few months, and recently took it to PR, where I received some helpful feedback. I'm not all that experienced with FLs, and this is quite different from the other two I have worked on, so I look forward to all of the comments. Thanks, Dana boomer (talk) 23:33, 26 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support - I had some pretty involved comments at the peer review and all of my concerns have since been addressed. I checked with the tools in the toolbox and there are no dab links and all the external links are live. Nicely done and meets the FL criteria. I do have have two quibbles, which do not detract from my support.

~~The Delaware quarter does not show any horse and rider, it shows Caesar Rodney on his horse.~~
Can the table of proposed state horses be made the same width as the table of actual state horses? I do not think the table of symbols needs to be the same width as the others, but these two are in the same section and would look better if they were the same width.

Nicely done, Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 20:31, 27 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the support! I've tweaked the description of the Delaware quarter to include the name of the rider. On my screen, the two tables are the same width, so I'm not sure what you're seeing. I'm also not sure how I would go about forcing the tables to a certain size - coding tables is not my strong points :) Dana boomer (talk) 20:50, 27 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I made the tables the same overall width and added an "s" to the Pennsylvania seal and flag description (so it is now "horses", since there are two). Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 23:29, 27 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 11:39, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comments Not convinced how accessible the map is given that it uses just colour to convey information. I'm not very educated about the accessibility guidelines; do you have a proposal to make it more accessible? The general rule is to not use colour alone to convey information. However, since this is an image, I guess the best way to deal with the access issues is to have fully comprehensive alt text which describes to screen readers what the image is trying to convey. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:10, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply] Added alt text to the first image - does it work? "There are twelve U.S. states that have an official state horse, ..." would prefer "Twelve U.S. states has an official state..." Done. Is there a general article n US state symbols somewhere you can link to in the lead so non-experts know what this is all about? There's Lists of United States state insignia, but I'm not really sure that provides any better information... I can link to it if you want, though. I just thought there'd be a good call for a link to something that is meaningful to non-experts, e.g. in the UK we don't have a concept of "state horses". You know what I mean? The Rambling Man (talk) 18:10, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply] I've added a couple of sentences to the article on what state symbols actually are, along with the link that I posted above. Does this help? "There has been a proposed state horse that was not selected in one state, Oregon, " reads very strangely to me. Perhaps turn it around and say that Oregon proposed a state horse, but it was not selected. Done, I think, but take a look. I see no useful reason for the "description" column to be sortable. Done. What's a "founding stallion"? The stallion (male) from which all or most horses of the breed descend. Linked to foundation bloodstock. Be consistent with the use of periods in the description column. They should all have periods now. Would prefer to see column widths the same from table to table with similar headings. Could you tell me how to do this? You would need to force column widths.... it's no major trauma for me, but I'd prefer it. There are many lists which do this already, I'd need to go back and find an example though! The Rambling Man (talk) 18:10, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply] Dana, I know what to do, it'll just take some tinkering. I'll do it when I get home. Courcelles 20:32, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply] Okay, done. You might need to play with the widths some more, but as long as the percentage calls add up to 100 and the two tables use the same percentage (like it does now) it'll work. The third table has separate column names, so leaving it narrow is, IMO, better. Courcelles 23:20, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply] Thank you Courcelles! The sizing looks fine on both of my computers (different size screens but both Firefox), but if anyone else thinks they're messed up I can play with the ratios. Dana boomer (talk) 17:24, 29 March 2011 (UTC)[reply] State symbols "date" column doesn't sort correctly in Safari. Could you tell me how to correct this? I think it's because Safari interprets the whole column as text rather than just numbers. In any case, I used the ((sort)) template in this edit and it seemed to do the job. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:06, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply] Ref 2 has a spare period, "cheat" the template.... Done. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:11, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply] Thank you for the review! Replies interspersed above. The coding issues I'm going to need help on... :) Dana boomer (talk) 17:49, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply] Welcome, very much so. Have hopefully helped above a little.... The Rambling Man (talk) 18:10, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 11:39, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

Not convinced how accessible the map is given that it uses just colour to convey information.

I'm not very educated about the accessibility guidelines; do you have a proposal to make it more accessible?

The general rule is to not use colour alone to convey information. However, since this is an image, I guess the best way to deal with the access issues is to have fully comprehensive alt text which describes to screen readers what the image is trying to convey. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:10, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Added alt text to the first image - does it work?

"There are twelve U.S. states that have an official state horse, ..." would prefer "Twelve U.S. states has an official state..."

Done.

Is there a general article n US state symbols somewhere you can link to in the lead so non-experts know what this is all about?

There's Lists of United States state insignia, but I'm not really sure that provides any better information... I can link to it if you want, though.

I just thought there'd be a good call for a link to something that is meaningful to non-experts, e.g. in the UK we don't have a concept of "state horses". You know what I mean? The Rambling Man (talk) 18:10, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I've added a couple of sentences to the article on what state symbols actually are, along with the link that I posted above. Does this help?

"There has been a proposed state horse that was not selected in one state, Oregon, " reads very strangely to me. Perhaps turn it around and say that Oregon proposed a state horse, but it was not selected.

Done, I think, but take a look.

I see no useful reason for the "description" column to be sortable.

Done.

What's a "founding stallion"?

The stallion (male) from which all or most horses of the breed descend. Linked to foundation bloodstock.

Be consistent with the use of periods in the description column.

They should all have periods now.

Would prefer to see column widths the same from table to table with similar headings.

Could you tell me how to do this?

You would need to force column widths.... it's no major trauma for me, but I'd prefer it. There are many lists which do this already, I'd need to go back and find an example though! The Rambling Man (talk) 18:10, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Dana, I know what to do, it'll just take some tinkering. I'll do it when I get home. Courcelles 20:32, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, done. You might need to play with the widths some more, but as long as the percentage calls add up to 100 and the two tables use the same percentage (like it does now) it'll work. The third table has separate column names, so leaving it narrow is, IMO, better. Courcelles 23:20, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you Courcelles! The sizing looks fine on both of my computers (different size screens but both Firefox), but if anyone else thinks they're messed up I can play with the ratios. Dana boomer (talk) 17:24, 29 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

State symbols "date" column doesn't sort correctly in Safari.

Could you tell me how to correct this?

I think it's because Safari interprets the whole column as text rather than just numbers. In any case, I used the ((sort)) template in this edit and it seemed to do the job. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:06, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Ref 2 has a spare period, "cheat" the template....

Done.

The Rambling Man (talk) 17:11, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the review! Replies interspersed above. The coding issues I'm going to need help on... :) Dana boomer (talk) 17:49, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Welcome, very much so. Have hopefully helped above a little.... The Rambling Man (talk) 18:10, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support Full disclosure- I've done some tinkering with this list over the last month or so. Meets FL standards. Courcelles 18:19, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from Giants2008 (27 and counting) 19:03, 29 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comments – Florida: "The Florida Cracker horse was first brought to what is now Florida in the 1500s by Spanish explorers, and they played a large part...". Tense conflict between singular ("was") and plural ("they"). There's a similar issue in the Idaho description. Maryland: "Maryland has an long history of breeding and racing Thoroughbreds". "an" → "a". Massachusetts: The state's name should be spelled out instead of having MA in the description. Not a big deal, but the dashes for blanks in the image column might look nicer if they were centered. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 02:20, 6 April 2011 (UTC)[reply] Thank you very much for the review! I have taken care of all of the above. My only question was on the centering of the dashes - I think I fixed it, but I'm not sure if it was the most elegant solution. Feel free to instruct me as to if there is a better way, or just tweak yourself if that's easier than explaining to a code idiot like me :) Thanks again, Dana boomer (talk) 02:35, 6 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from Giants2008 (27 and counting) 19:03, 29 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comments –

Florida: "The Florida Cracker horse was first brought to what is now Florida in the 1500s by Spanish explorers, and they played a large part...". Tense conflict between singular ("was") and plural ("they"). There's a similar issue in the Idaho description.
Maryland: "Maryland has an long history of breeding and racing Thoroughbreds". "an" → "a".
Massachusetts: The state's name should be spelled out instead of having MA in the description.
Not a big deal, but the dashes for blanks in the image column might look nicer if they were centered. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 02:20, 6 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you very much for the review! I have taken care of all of the above. My only question was on the centering of the dashes - I think I fixed it, but I'm not sure if it was the most elegant solution. Feel free to instruct me as to if there is a better way, or just tweak yourself if that's easier than explaining to a code idiot like me :) Thanks again, Dana boomer (talk) 02:35, 6 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Fantastic list - I have no problems with the main table but I am concerned with the State symbols section. While state quarters are representative of a state's culture, they are in no way official symbols of the state and are separate from the official breed designation. These are irrelevant to the article's purpose, especially for Delaware, where the depicted horse is coincidental and has nothing to do with a state symbol. Also, the Idaho license plate is just one of 38 specialty plates and is unconnected to the main list. Reywas92^Talk 05:06, 9 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, given that the Idaho license tag is fair-use and not totally necessary under NFCC 8, I think the image needs to go even if the item does not, non-free content in a list is fairly shaky. Courcelles 05:22, 9 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I've removed the picture from the article. The list of Idaho license plates actually lists many of the specialty plates near the bottom of the article, the Appaloosa is just not part of the list for some reason, so I think that the link is relevant. As for the list, I think that it is also relevant. Three out of the six portray the official state breed/animal, while three of the six are issued by the state (license plate, flag, etc). Would it help if we renamed the section? Something like "state and federal symbols"? I think the introduction to the section makes it clear that these do not all portray official state horses/animals, and that they are not all official symbols, instead saying "emblem" and nothing about "official". However, if you think that more explanation is needed, I would love to hear your thoughts on it... Thank you, Dana boomer (talk) 19:32, 9 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

No, the flag and seal are official state symbols, but the quarters are not "emblems of several states" as the section into says. They are not federal symbols or emblems either, they are unrelated things that happen to have horses. Delaware and Nevada do not appear anywhere else in the list; the horse is a common animal and coincidentally on the coins, not as a state symbol. I don't see how one of 38 specialty plates is relevant, much less a symbol or emblem. Perhaps these images could be included in the main table, but a separate section isn't appropriate for them. Reywas92^Talk 00:48, 10 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

They are emblems, though. An emblem is "an object or its representation, symbolizing a quality, state, class of persons, etc.;" per my dictionary. The coins are representations of the state's history. They are not official emblems, but they are emblems. They are also not unrelated - the Kentucky coin has an image of the state horse, which makes it completely related. The license plate is also an unofficial emblem, but is also completely related, as it shows the state horse. At this point, you are the only editor who believes the table should go, so unless more editors chime in with the same opinion, I am going to leave the table in the article. Dana boomer (talk) 14:48, 10 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The KY coin and ID plate are depictions of their designated equines and would fit in a section called something like "Other depictions of state horses". However, the Delaware and Nevada coins and the Pennsylvania flag do not have images of their state horses, not even having one! This article is about state horses, not generic horses that happen to be on state-related currency or insignia. The Washington quarter has a fish on it, but it has no place on the list of state fish. Reywas92^Talk 22:28, 10 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Was the question of the name of the article addressed? I know with the state dogs list, it started out as List of U.S. state dogs, but was requested to be changed to U.S. official state dogs during the FLN process. Should this article be renamed to U.S. official state horses? Miyagawa (talk) 16:06, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I don't have a strong opinion in this matter. I like the "List of" name better, but that's just personal preference. If there is consensus here to change the name of the article, I have no problem with that, and will happily do the work. Dana boomer (talk) 13:42, 2 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I think a reasonable rule of thumb is that if this is the main article about the X in "List of X" then it should be moved to X, if you see what I mean, so if this is the main article about U.S. state horses, there's a good shout that it could be moved to U.S. state horses. Just a thought though, not binding in any way. The Rambling Man (talk) 16:58, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support, didn't find any issues.The only thing I found iffy was that the lead seems to just jump right in and put almost anything of note in the first paragraph, but I don't know of a better way to write the lead so I won't worry about it. Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 17:19, 22 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.