*Not too fond of the parentheses in the first sentence. Can it be rephrased/removed somehow?
What is the meaning of "safe" in: "The trust's primary aim is to ensure that the buildings in its care are weatherproof and safe."?
Is the definition of "South West England" due to the Churches Conservation Trust or only used in this list?
- The CCT use a definition of SW England which doesn't include Gloucestershire whereas South West England and West Country include it (based largely on government department definitions). The ongoing debates on their talk pages demonstrate there is no single definition.
- I don't want to join the discussions on this issues. Just wanted to make sure that the CCT uses the same partition in SW England, N England,... as this list. They do, right?
- Yep these lists are all being based on CCT regions. Their list of SW England is here
Please remove doubled information: "Rural churches dominate the list" and "The majority are rural village churches..."
Some overuse of "largely" could be copy-edited.
Empty cells should be filled with ((center|—)) AFAIK.
The link for footnote "C" does not work.
Should "St Nicholas (old)" be replaced with "Old Church of St Nicholas"?
- Done (& also in a few other cases)
What is Thurlbear in "St Thomas, Thurlbear, Orchard Portman"? A church, village or town?
Same for a couple of other entries ("St Mary, Maddington, Shrewton",...). The column heading suggests that there are only two things appearing while sometimes there are three. Maybe reword the heading to something like: "Church name and location".
- I've changed the column header as suggested. these are often where a tiny village within a parish doesn't have an article & therefore the parish is wikilinked.
I am a bit confused by the note in the reference section ("The Heritage Gateway website is published by...). What is it supposed to tell me?
- We are supposed to give the publishers of the sources used. Heritage Gateway is published by a consortium of three bodies. The note is intended to prevent the repetition of this information in every reference, which would make the section large and ugly. It was deemed acceptable in the FL Friends of Friendless Churches.--Peter I. Vardy (talk) 08:04, 31 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- I can add the full publisher info to eeach of these references if that would be preferable?
- I see and it is perfectly fine with me not to repeat the publisher information. However at the moment I have a problem locating the Heritage Gateway references. The term "Heritage Gateway" only seems to appear in the note and not in the references.
- I have removed this as heritage Gateway is not used in this list.
Categories referring to the Churches Conservation Trust such as "Charities based in London" should be removed as this is a list about churches and not about the trust.
-
- Thanks. If you wish, you could also get rid of category "Conservation in England" since the category "Churches preserved by the Churches Conservation Trust" is in that category already.
A navigation template for other similar lists (Northern England) might be a good idea for the future.
- Yes that would be a good idea - but several of the lists haven't been written (yet)
- But hopefully will be written. In any case it is not essential at the moment.
bamse (talk) 23:33, 30 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks for you comments. I hope they have now been addressed.— Rod talk 08:51, 31 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Some more comments mainly on the notes column... (to be added to as I read along) bamse (talk) 10:20, 31 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The main table is currently in the section "Key". Maybe create a special section "Churches".
Should "over looking" be one word?
- Taking advice on this one
"...there is evidence of a wooden church in about 700 AD...". Surely the evidence is not from 700 AD. Possibly "in"->"from"?
"Outside the tower is a stone dedicated to John Coumbe, said to have lived from 1484 to 1604 – outliving the entire Tudor dynasty." Is this essential for the church?
"The 15th-century tower houses three bells, two of them medieval and one 17th century", maybe add something in the second part of the sentence.
- I don't understand what is wrong with this one
Same for: "The nave of Whitcombe Church dates from the 12th century, with the chancel being added in the 15th"
- Again this seem allright to me - what needs changing?
"...and altar rails, and the remains of wall paintings", maybe get rid of the first "and"
Capitalization in "St Antoninus King and Martyr." correct?
What's a "Gurney Stove"? Maybe add a footnote.
- named after inventor added
"The presence in the floor of the church of trapdoors..." reads cumbersome.
"a ... tree in the churchyard suggest it was", maybe "suggests that it was..."
"The manor was held by Shaftesbury Abbey's manor of Tisbury". The manor was held by a manor, correct?
- 2nd "manor" changed to endowment
Taking a break (at "St Mary, Maddington, Shrewton") now. Will continue later today or tomorrow. bamse (talk) 10:54, 31 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks for all comments so far - I will try to catch up with you.— Rod talk 11:02, 31 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
You use "28 feet (8.5 m) by 17 feet (5.2 m)" and on the other hand "62 by 12 feet (19 × 3.7 m)". Use the same way throughout (also check other occurrences. I'd prefer the second version.
- This will take a little while. I think I've done all these now.
Capitalization of "Perpendicular" correct? There seem to be both small and capital versions in the list. Also at least one of the "perpendicular" is linked to perpendicular and not to Perpendicular Period. Please check.
Something should be changed in: "A church was established on the site, overlooking the River Parrett, in the 12th century, was valued at £5 in 1291,[122] although the majority of the fabric of the current building dates from the 14th."
"It is now in the care of the Churches Conservation Trust." Isn't this redundant given that the church is mentioned in this list?
Something is missing in: "It is currently on the English Heritage Buildings at Risk Register,[128][129] flood damage from the River Chew in 1968."
- added "following" flood damage
Something should be changed in: "It has a perpendicular three-stage tower has an octagonal stair turret on the south wall."
Unify spelling of medieval/mediaevel.
- This will take a little while.— Rod talk 18:09, 31 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Done with the notes column. I also fixed some obvious things, but please check that I did not change any meaning. bamse (talk) 16:22, 31 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
There is likely a typo in ref 104. bamse (talk) 18:31, 31 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I think there is at least one "Heritage Gateway" reference, so you might want to put the note back or add publisher information directly to the reference.
-
- Edit the whole article and search for "www.heritagegateway.org.uk". I find two occurrences, one at "[St Giles' Church, Imber" and the other at "St Mary's Church, South Tidworth".
- Thanks - now done.— Rod talk 20:11, 31 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
There is something missing or amiss in the sentence: "It includes a collection of medieval carvings, in the form of elegant corbel-heads, roof bosses, and externally in the form of fearsome gargoyles"
-
- "Fearsome" might violate WP:NPOV, though personally I don't see a problem here so I leave it up to you to decide what's best here.
- fearsome removed (even though it was supported by the ref).
Welcome, and on it goes...
- "The first record of the church is an agreement dated 1226 between William, son of Arthur de Clopton and Richard of Keynsham Abbey." If possible, can you add what kind of agreement or in which way the church is mentioned in this agreement.
-
- Thanks. Possibly it should be "in an agreement"!?
- "in" added. I will try to get to the references this evening.— Rod talk 12:44, 1 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- The Newton Ferrers & Noss Mayo is a non-profit organisation and has a mechanism for correcting any errors (from home page)
- I have removed this one the info is covered by the Images of England ref already included
- Nadder Valley Focus is "a non-commercial site maintained by volunteers" and has a mechanism for correcting any errors from Contact us page)
- I have removed this one and sourced the information by reuse of the British History Online reference
- Replaced with a ref from North Wiltshire Council
- Replaced with ref from Pastscape (English Heritage)
- Ref removed as info already covered by RS
- I've removed the info re minton reredos at Fisherton as I couldn't find an alt source
- I've removed the claim re the plaque at Holcombe as I can't find an alt source
- "Hidden Dorset was initially funded by Leader+ Chalk & Cheese; Arts Council England; a partnership of Dorset County Council, and the six borough/district councils in the county. It is now independent of these bodies." from About page
- Unfortunately this does not tell anything about the current situation or who is writing material for the site. If they were still funded by those bodies, I'd believe that they are reliable. The fact that they "are now independent" could mean that the funding bodies were not happy with the content for instance. bamse (talk) 09:47, 2 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- I have removed the claim about the bells which was supported by this reference.— Rod talk 10:34, 2 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Ref removed as info already covered by RS
- There are still two refs using this site.
- Thanks I hadn't spotted them - now replaced/removed.— Rod talk 10:21, 2 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
-
- What part of the policy page should I look at? Apparently about-bristol is written by several members of the Stiles family according to About us. How do I know that they are reliable?
- I have replaced the ref supporting the quote about a "Wedding Cake Church" with one from the Churches Conservation Trust.— Rod talk 10:34, 2 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
-
- Material can be submitted by everybody. Not sure where it says that there is editorial control. I guess it would also matter who the editor is. bamse (talk) 10:01, 2 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- According to wikipedia article The Megalithic Portal "Its listings are often referenced by noted web sites[2] and in recent books on megaliths[3] and Holy Wells[4]...Founded by chartered engineer Andy Burnham, ... The Megalithic Portal has existed in its current form since February 2001. .. In 2002, Archaeology Magazine reviewed the Megalithic Portal, describing it as 'useful, fun, and accurate'.[6] As of January 2010 the Megalithic Portal has been constituted as a non profit making membership society[7]. From the site About page under terms and conditions and see The Charter of Responsible Megalithic Webmasters.
- According to terms and conditions, they cannot guarantee the accuracy of material submitted by third party contributors. Is the material cited in this list by third party contributors?
I've removed lots of the non RS sources and either removed the accompanying information or used other (RS) sources which cover the same information. I am convinced "Everything Exmoor" and "Megalithic Portal" should be allowed as Reliable. "Hidden Dorset" and "About Bristol" have suitable policies in place about quality controll etc and I think are probably RS but would be happy to compromise on these two.— Rod talk 18:08, 1 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Thank you. I will have another look as soon as I get time. bamse (talk) 02:03, 2 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- I am far from an expert on RS issues. However Hidden Dorset and About Bristol look less reliable to me than the other sites (see comments above). To make sure I asked the experts at WP:RSN. bamse (talk) 10:01, 2 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- On Everything Exmoor the About page states in "the only limiting factor will be the time available for the volunteer editor to process the incoming information." this leads me to question how they factually check the information. Also in the About is "All the information is provided 'by the Community for the Community'" considering what you're sourcing with the information it leads me to believe it may not be factually accurate. I'm not sure on Megalithic however the information which you are citing appears to be user submitted with no expert knowledge in the field. Afro (Talk) 07:24, 4 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks for the comments. Although it pains me to do so (because it means I should go & check all the other FAs, FLs & GA which use it) I have replaced the reference to everything exmooor with the reuse of the Images of England one which has the same information. I have also replaced the megalithic reference with one from British History Online.— Rod talk 19:56, 4 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks. I will support after the display problems of refs 119 and 131 are fixed and "church" is capitalized in ref 130. bamse (talk) 18:48, 8 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks. I must be getting too close to this I didn't even spot those - now fixed.— Rod talk 18:59, 8 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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