The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the miscellaneous page below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the discussion was: move to Draft:Mokshas. —⁠ScottyWong⁠— 17:08, 29 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:WikiProject Mokshas[edit]

This "WikiProject" is just a draft containing the creator's preferred version of Mokshas - and it's linked from that article-space page? It's not a wikiproject, that's for sure. casualdejekyll 16:13, 19 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Seems no one explained me what is a wikiproject and I missed some guidelines. No critics or comment followed. I've been compiling the article from open sources with all data proved with reliable works and dictionaries. Moksha History textbooks never existed but it doesn't mean they themselves never existed at least archaeologically. So I compiled facts for the last 100 years and ready for critics what exactly do not comply with modern historiography or linguistics. Thanks. --Numulunj pilgae (talk) 17:58, 19 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. This is clearly not a WikiProject. Woodroar (talk) 18:03, 19 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

OK. It is deleted. What then? Let's start from the beginning. Hire someone to check reliability of my info. Do you believe Vladimir Minorsky is a reliable source? Let's start the prehistory since 8thc AD. Not to mention Khazars, or Jews? What to mention? Give me a guideline. Not to mention Stalin or persecutions? OK. What to mention? How can I guess what exactly are your stereotypes about Volga Ural history. The article must be finished anyway, or you vote for waiting for another expert for the next 10 years? No more experts appear ever. You have to talk to me. Discussion is the key point. --Numulunj pilgae (talk) 18:39, 19 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Numulunj pilgae, a WikiProject is a separate page for many editors to coordinate work on a large topic, like articles about Mathematics or India or Music. There are usually hundreds or thousands of pages in those topics, so the WikiProject provides a single place to discuss all of those articles. See Wikipedia:WikiProject. It's not for 1 editor to test edits on 1 article, or even a small number of articles. That's what article talk pages, like Talk:Mokshas, are for. Woodroar (talk) 18:58, 19 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

And if no one else is interested in the article and there are no more editors? What to do then? Make edit proposals and wait for years if someone comments? Or submit a source(s) on the talk page and wait again? How long? I have 200GB info on Mokshas, I've been collecting it for 25 years and I can speak this language. I can not wait for a comment for another 20 years I may just die. What should I do? --Numulunj pilgae (talk) 19:10, 19 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

What are you talking about? We're discussing deleting Wikipedia:WikiProject Mokshas because that page is not a WikiProject. Woodroar (talk) 19:20, 19 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

What am I talking about? If I was wrong posting it in the Project page why it must to be deleted not moved. I've spent couple of months restoring the timeline details and picking up sources. --Numulunj pilgae (talk) 20:56, 19 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Delete as not a WikiProject. Also, the originator's explanation appears to be a description of web hosting, but Wikipedia is not for web hosting. There are other servers and ISPs that will provide web hosting to provide information about Moksha heritage and history. Robert McClenon (talk) 19:26, 19 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
If you knew something very well. For instance how to make really tasty Swedish traditional salad with herring dated back to some 18c. You might like to start an article in wiki "Traditional Swedish Herring Salad". Where would you place the recipe? Probably first on talk page in order to show it to other editors? Or on some web hosting dedicated to Swedish salads? --Numulunj pilgae (talk) 20:50, 19 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Move to something like Draft:Mokshas and Redirect to the article, so anything useful can be merged from the page history. This is not a Wikiproject. @Numulunj pilgae If you want to improve an article then edit it directly. If other people undo your changes then go to the talk page and discuss, see WP:BRD. Do not create duplicate pages covering the same topic, this is called WP:Content Forking. 192.76.8.78 (talk) 19:37, 19 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Move to Draft:Mokshas and redirect per the 192 IP. Attribution may still be required for revisions in the history by Numulunj pilgae (talk · contribs). Also see Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Persisting Vandalism article Mokshas bot needed. –LaundryPizza03 (d c̄) 20:08, 19 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

User:Rsjaffe:"Changes are not well-supported. For example, the population in Kyrgyzstan includes all Mordvans, not just Mokshas, so is very inaccurate. Other text is just impossible to read."

He used the term Mordvans, the last time it was used in 13th c. Seems he has no slightest idea what are they and never heard about Mokshas. Probably he doesn't know about the Russian Census 1926 when Mokshas number last time was calculated separately, so to give the correct number it needs time. If the text is impossible to read he can delete also the initial section in Albans, I almost all copied it, just changed names and sources because it matched. He didn't comment why he removed Semenkovich (1913) who traced Moksha Hellenisation time and Minorsky (1959) that gives the first mention of Mokshas in 8th AD, replaced 21th c sources to 1960s. And the most enigmatic for me why he replaced young girls in Moksha clothes 2021 photo to archaic Russian colonial ethnography B/W one. Mokshas hasn't become extinct yet. I have a suspicion that's because he never heard about Minorsky and he knows no Greek, no Mokshan. But I liked Mordvans. It would be difficult to explain him they are not an ethnicity. --Numulunj pilgae (talk) 20:37, 19 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I used "Mordvans" because that's the term used in the document you were using as a reference, in 1999, not the 13th c. Sorry if the term is outdated, but that's what Kyrgyzstan used, and that term includes more than Mokshas in it. — rsjaffe 🗣️ 21:10, 19 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Probably it is just a typo? That is not the term used in all other sources including wiki articles. Mordvins are NOT an ethnicity. It is proved by number of sources I provided in previous version of Mordvins rolled back last night by the same unregistered Vandal Vaultralph having lots of warning re ethnicities issues of former USSR I applied for banning. Seems that some Users prefer outdated info and photos which is not the right thing for wiki. It is not Soviet (Russian) wiki, it is supported by mostly reliable English sources but not Big Soviet Encyclopedia. My edits did not include unreferenced info, or broken links I checked it every day. You seem to be ethnically biased removing info on Moksha Jewish heritage proven by recent Mordovia Republic and Israeli studies. --Numulunj pilgae (talk) 06:26, 20 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Move to User space If this is a subject that the page creator wants to work on over time, the best place to move it to is their User space. I see no purpose in deleting all of this content. And if you move it to Draft space and the editor takes a break from editing, then it will just be deleted in 6 months. This looks like a highly intensive writing project and should probably be located on a User space page where the editor can work on it until it can either be merged with a main space version or be trimmed and moved to main space as a separate article. I know that Draft space is a "preferred" location but there are plenty of editors with article drafts on User pages or in Sandboxes that they have been working on for long periods of time.

But don't delete the page simply because the editor misunderstood what a WikiProject is for! That's bureaucracy for its own sake. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 20:54, 21 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.