The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the miscellaneous page below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the discussion was: speedy keep. Withdrawing as nominator, I will gather more substantive evidence with diffs to potentially bring to WP:AN. (non-admin closure) - car chasm (talk) 14:47, 22 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:WikiProject Systems[edit]

Systems engineering is a real field of study, and Systems biology, Complex systems theory, etc. but Systems as a "interdisciplinary" field of study appears to be an example of this, with the additional complication that outside of wikipedia and some WP:FRINGE sources that seem to be pushing some mystical form of "holism" there's no discussion of it at all, or if there is, it's buried under all of the other subject-specific uses of the word, since "system" itself is a very general and abstract word. I'm thoroughly unconvinced that the fact that two fields of study or concepts both use this word implies in any way that they're related, as seems to be the assumption of this wikiproject. Since we shouldn't have Wikipedia:Wikiproject Blue Trucks we shouldn't have this wikiproject either - car chasm (talk) 22:37, 21 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy keep. This is a somewhat active and validly formed WikiProject, as evidenced by multiple discussions with replies on its talk page from within the last year. Even if it were inactive, deleting its page through MFD would be the wrong way to handle its inactivity; see WP:INACTIVEWP. Not liking the name is also a bad reason for deciding that the project is inactive, as the nominator threatened to do on the project talk page. The fact that the nominator doesn't like its name, taken as the name for a field of academic study, should be irrelevant for whether it is an appropriate WikiProject. For instance, "Women in Red" isn't the name of a valid field of academic study, but Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red is a very active WikiProject. —David Eppstein (talk) 22:44, 21 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
As far as I know, the goals of Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red are entirely in line with our content policies. But Wikipedia:WikiProject Systems seems to be organized under the banner of drawing unjustified WP:SYNTH associations between various fields of study. - car chasm (talk) 23:00, 21 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Do you have diffs showing systematic attempts to introduce fringe original research into Wikipedia articles, coordinated through this project, or are you just casting evidence-free aspersions? If you do have diffs, why are you using this backdoor process rather than taking it to a noticeboard capable of handling widespread malfeasance, such as WP:AN? —David Eppstein (talk) 23:46, 21 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy keep People saying vague things in places that are not Wikipedia is not a reason to delete a WikiProject page. This is a bad solution for a non-problem. XOR'easter (talk) 01:05, 22 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy keep. System and Systems science (see Template:Systems science) seem to be the highest-level topics among the articles that this wikiproject is concerned with. Carchasm believes that the systems science article is an instance of WP:SYNTH and tried to delete it via prod. As long as these articles and the organization of topics that extend from them persist in mainspace, it is a priori fine to have a wikiproject founded on those premises. AfD is needed to deal with the alleged synth problem in mainspace, the wikiproject is a subsidiary issue. MfD is the wrong venue to address these content concerns at the moment.—Alalch E. 08:12, 22 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy keep. Systems science and complex systems theory are valid, non-fringe (and I think quite promising) fields. There are academic textbooks, journals, papers, and even quite a few university departments devoted to it. I see no evidence that the project is a vehicle to coordinate fringe additions. Some quacks use systems science language, but that makes the project all the more important, to ensure the subject is covered properly. If you spot editors that add fringe material, you're of course free to raise it at ANI. DFlhb (talk) 13:04, 22 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
speedy Keep - I'm an active member of this semi-active project and a single editor is proposing to shut it down based on vague and unsubstantiated complaints. ~Kvng (talk) 13:51, 22 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.