- I was helping a neighbour with his Windows 7 machine, and that little "feature" in (ugh) Internet Explorer almost drove me to break it. Hovering didn't help, clicking didn't help, only shortcut keys (the ones I remembered, anyway, and none of the Menus, just actions). I'm a fairly experienced computer user, but I have no idea what Microsoft is trying to accomplish this last decade or so. Convinced my neighbour to at least get Firefox. I suggest you get a better library. InedibleHulk (talk) 23:47, 12 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- If you need a refresher on all that Microsoft accomplished in the last ten years, here's a list of important dates provided by their corporate press office. Ten years ago, they began returning 75 billion dollars to shareholders; they launched a series of very popular video game consoles; shipped several major revisions of their operating systems that make billions of personal and embedded computers work; acquired Skype and Nokia; and created a few hardware platforms, like the Surface and the Xbox; and ported Microsoft Office to work on the iPad. The corporation also smoothly transitioned beyond its founder, who stepped out of the inner circle to focus on operating one of the world's largest charity programs, the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. Not everything Microsoft have done has worked flawlessly, but before you nitpick them, you might want to reconsider what you have accomplished in the last ten years. Nimur (talk) 00:24, 13 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- If you knew me, you'd know exactly how unimpressive any of that is. Probably as impressed as you'd be if I did tell you about my days of glory. Didn't mean to touch a nerve, Microsoft is good at what they do. But making a product I want to use generally hasn't been what they do (Hotmail's alright). I'm glad they could help you. InedibleHulk (talk) 04:54, 13 May 2014 (UTC) [reply]
- I'm with Hulk on this one. Let's look at what they actually accomplished.
- they launched a series of very popular video game consoles: whatever; it's the worst of the Big Three. It lacks both the raw power of the PS3 and the innovation of the Wii. It's a dumbed-down PC By Any Other NameTM.
- shipped several major revisions of their operating systems that make billions of personal and embedded computers work: With the one major feature of being "new" rather than better. "Lack of innovation" would have been a good thing this time.
- acquired Skype and Nokia: Who. Cares. As the joke goes, "they could have downloaded Skype for free".
- ported Microsoft Office to work on the iPad: if they ported to MacOS, that would have been worth writing home about, but an office suite on a tablet is like porting a microwave app to a fridge.
- Not everything Microsoft have done has worked flawlessly: [citation needed]
- but before you nitpick them, you might want to reconsider what you have accomplished in the last ten years: I'm pretty sure any Wikipedian would have a hard time trying to waste as much usertime as Microsoft did with Vista.
- That's my $0.02 on Microsoft's recent exploits... - ¡Ouch! (hurt me / more pain) 07:03, 13 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Um? Microsoft Office for Mac has existed since 1989 Microsoft Office#Mac and iOS versions which is before the Windows version was released, the current version was released about 3.5 years ago and the next version is due sometime this year [4]. (Even Microsoft Word for Mac was launched about 2 years after the first released.) Office for Mac is sometimes criticised for various reasons, most particularly compatibility problems between documents saved in the Mac and Windows versions, the ?historic poor support for complex scripts and the lack of Microsoft Access. And there's a slight possibility Microsoft may have abandoned Office for Mac in the dark days of Apple were it not for antitrust concerns although some commentators disagree [5]. Either way, your comment above makes little sense. Is the iPad version even derived from the Windows version or is it really derived from the OS X version?
- As for the PS3 vs the 360, it's well recognised that the many game developers hate/d the the PS3 and the Cell (microprocessor) due to the difficulty coding for it. It's little use having a more powerful processor if few people know, or want to know, how to use it to the extent you rarely get an advantage. (The PS3 did have the advantage of having a Bluray drive and the larger capacity that this resulted in, but this isn't really a raw performance advantage.) It's intended to be a game console after all, not a research device.
- Sure things may have improved somewhat near the end and perhaps some a few games gained an advantage from the greater theoretical performance but it doesn't seem to have been many. I suspect Sony wasn't helped by the fact there's probably less in house engine development (which is a double edged sword since on the one hand it means the developers don't have to worry so much about the odditys of the Cell but on the other hand a crossplatform multipurpose engine is less likely to be able to do weird stuff using the unique features of the specific consoles it's being targeted at based on the specific needs of the game); a lot less exclusivity i.e. most titles are at least developed with the assumption they may be cross platform (even if it's only PCs running Windows) at some stage; and overall less drive to really push the envelope using weird stuff then there may have been with past consoles when developers felt they were significantly limited by the hardware or could do something really cool. (And I'm not completely sure how much the SPEs really helped the biggest problem for both namely the limited amount of RAM that became increasingly evident.)
- The biggest sign of this is the fact both Microsoft and Sony chose something which is very like a PC in this generation including with an x86 processor (as ironically was the original Xbox). Actually the PC I'm using right now which is connected to a TV but running Windows 8 is somewhat similar although it has a Trinity and so the CPU may or may not be more powerful but the GPU is much less powerful, and it also lacks HSA. (Memory bandwidth is similar to the Xbox One. It could probably be higher the APU and/or motherboard has problems running the memory at rated speed.)
- Of course all this depends on what you mean by a PC anyway. When most people in the developed world thing of a PC, they probably think of a x86 device probably running Windows or perhaps *nix. Macs, even now that they are very similar to PCs in terms of hardware often aren't considered PCs, probably because of Apple's successful marketing. Despite the name, very few people would have much experience with something using a PowerPC CPU which they would call a PC by the time the 360 came around (which was around the time Apple was transitioning to x86). Not to mention the Xenon (processor) was as I understand it, derived from the Power Processing Element from the Cell which used the Power Architecture but is distinct from other PowerPCs and note used anywhere besides the Xenon and Cell processors AFAIK. Meanwhile there were I believe some Cell based workstations which could be considered PCs (although more likely people with workstations many simply have a Cell accelerator card i.e. with a distinct CPU if they had any Cell in their workstation).
- In other words, in many ways the PS3 is as much a PC as the 360 was. And if anything, you could say the PS3 is more like some PCs than the 360.
- So again this is a fairly odd statement. If anything the current generation PS4 vs Xbox One seems to be a better example where while both choose something that's very like a PC, the PS4 is clearly more powerful on the GPU side thanks particularly to the higher memory bandwidth and more compute units (and perhaps in the future to the the more async compute units). The Xbox One does have eSRAM but this doesn't generally seem to help anywhere enough (possibly because there isn't enough and they couldn't fit more [6] [http://attackofthefanboy.com/news/xbox-esram-small-1080p-microsoft/), and the minor CPU advantage likewise would generally not be significant. And definitely early indications are that the PS4 is winning where it matters, i.e. among consumers. (You could probably say the Xbox One is slightly more likely a PC than the PS4 since GDDR5 as system memory probably will never be possible for anything besides a highly specialised system like the PS4. Although realisticly it's likely DDR4 combined with triple channel may mean you could achieve about equivalent memory bandwidth on a more normal APU in a year or two if AMD stick around with it that long and are able to get the memory controllers up to scratch (although I'm not that sure how good the PS4 one is anyway). And I have doubts AMD is going to do anything like eSRAM on their main APU lineups.
- This is unlike the last generation where the was no clear winner [7]. Both Microsoft and Sony had various problems. E.g. Sony with supply and cost issues due to their more expensive system and of course the PlayStation Network outage. Microsoft with the Red Ring of Death. Even Nintendo's early success with the Wii seems to have later started to falter. In particular, while they did end up selling more units, they also I believe sold fewer games/unit which is of course significant since games tends to be where they make most of their money. And it's looking like they're even worse off than Microsoft in this generation, although they are somewhat out of sync anyway. (Of course Nintendo probably isn't helped by the fact that a key part of their target market has smart phone and tablet games, and perhaps those Facebook ones, to keep them entertained. And both Sony and Microsoft copied their key innovations in their own way. Perhaps without that much added success but with enough to mean they are no longer so appealing.)
- In fact, Microsoft attempts at innovation such as the always bundled Kinect, possibly including family game sharing (or at least the earlier plans where it's compulsory with the associated requirements such as regular online checks and games being associated with an account rather than the media [8]) and possibly including eSRAM (although as hinted above, it may also just be the early state of the tools and it's perhaps also likely the Xbox will be a lot worse without the eSRAM) have mostly been abandoned or otherwise unsuccessful. In many ways, Sony stuck to the basics and so far seems to be having success, Microsoft tried something different, and mostly seems to have failed at least at the moment. (Of course it's still early days, too early to definitely declare any winner or loser.)
- It's of course rather funny that this thread seems to have started based on criticism of a feature which is in most browsers. In fact I've personally encountered it in Chrome and Firefox much more than IE which I rarely use. And while it is slightly annoying it is easy to resolve if you know the F11 shortcut key which I suspect is how it was activated anyway. Even more funny that if I understand the comment below, the OP wasn't even using IE but Firefox. Was this feature even introduced first in IE? I can't really recall (although I do know it greatly preceeded the iPhone and the full sized touchscreen smart phone era).
- P.S. While Vista has its flaws, it very likely saved me more time than it wasted compared to XP.
- Nil Einne (talk) 16:15, 13 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
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