- Actually since you're obviously referring to President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran, there is disagreement over what was actually meant. See Controversies surrounding Mahmoud Ahmadinejad#Columbia University where it's mentioned it was later claimed he meant there weren't as many as in the US (which may not be true but is difficult to ascertain). For an alternative view from someone who grew up in Iran (but had been away for 35? years) see Talk:Iran/Archive 11#Demographics & Homosexuality where it's suggested what Mahmoud Ahmadinejad actually meant was that gays in Iran were generally predators of children (based on his cultural misconceptions), which isn't accurate but isn't the same thing. I don't know what he actually meant, but I do know it's easy to misunderstand what people are saying when language and cultural barriers come in to play. In fact, in such cases it can sometimes take considerable effort to really understand what people are saying. And Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has been one of the favourite punching bags of many particularly in the US for a long time. It's clear no one was particularly interested in a genuine dialog or trying to understand where he's coming from or what he meant (not that I think he was really that interested either). Nil Einne (talk) 17:54, 21 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Yes, he's the one. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ [your turn] 19:05, 21 June 2012 (UTC) [reply]
- Ahmadinajad was a "punching bag" in the U.S. during his 2007 NYC visit because he made absolutely no conciliatory rhetorical gesture which the U.S. public could understand. He didn't have to announce any major substantive change in Iranian regime policies, but a noteworthy conciliatory verbal gesture (phrased to appeal to the American people, and not in code words understood by few other than Shi`ite clerics) would have assisted greatly in preserving some of the usual courtesies, while the absence of such a gesture guaranteed him a rather negative/hostile reception. AnonMoos (talk) 20:17, 21 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Is there any topic less relevant to prostitution in Ilfracombe than Mahmoud Ahmedinejad? Only on RDH. By the way if the OP needs an answer s/he should Google for massage parlours, saunas and escort agencies in north Devon. I'm not going to do it on their behalf. Itsmejudith (talk) 22:23, 21 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- That's how it may appear if taken out of context, but look back to see how he first got into the discussion and you'll discover a meandering pathway of fluctuating relevance. Remember, no matter how absurdly off track these refdesk discussions may go (and I'm not saying this one is like that), it's the journey that matters, not the destination. If you come from the right place (and Ilfracombe seems to be "a place of love"), this awareness will empower you to fully experientiate your self-actuation, and you will finally become all of who you are, and probably parts of other people as well. :) :) -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ [your turn] 23:41, 21 June 2012 (UTC) [reply]
- Someone above already found what appears to be an answer, before I replied to JoO. Nil Einne (talk) 05:29, 22 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- I don't really get the relevence of your comment to mine. I didn't discuss much in my original comment whether or not the punching bag etc was justified since it was a moot point and IMO too OT. My main point was given the context at the time, it's difficult to be sure of what was actually meant. But we definitely can't assume the later claims by a spokesperson are simply attempts to rewrite history or that the bulk of media reports of the time are an actual reflection of what was meant. And as for the punching bag bit, I said he had been a punching bag for a long time, not just in 2007. I also don't see why it was necessary for him to make any 'conciliatory rhetorical gesture' for people to actually be interested in what he was saying, rather then just pretending to understand what he was saying when they didn't (which they had already been doing for a long time). It's not like he promised to make such a gesture, and it's questionable why you would want invite someone for discussion if you're not actually going to bother to try to understand what they're saying, unless perhaps you're Fox News. (Note that this doesn't mean you have to agree with what they say, just that it's better to try to understand them and debate or criticise what they actually said rather then simply mock them for things they may not have said.) He wasn't even in the US because of the US government. It's not like many US presidents (etc) always make such gestures when visiting other countries on their invitation, if anything, they far more often berate them. And it's not like such gestures when visiting the US have generally been successful anyway despite your claims to the contrary. Note that as I said in my first comment, I'm not convinced Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was particularly interested in genuine dialog anyway (although then again who could blame him?) but this doesn't mean it's best to just make him a punching bag and not try to understand what he was saying. Nil Einne (talk) 05:57, 22 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- I saw his interview with Charlie Rose (who always tries his best to treat his guests fairly and try to understand their POV), but Ahmadinejad still came off as a nut-job. His comment that a study is needed to determine if the Holocaust actually occurred was one such example. At some point you do have to write certain people off and wait for a (hopefully saner) replacement. I believe he announced he plans to retire soon, so let's keep our fingers crossed. StuRat (talk) 06:22, 22 June 2012 (UTC) [reply]
- The guy holds offensive views but he's not mentally ill. Trying to make sense of his Holocaust denial without taking the Middle Eastern context into account is like trying to make sense of the Republican Party's climate change and evolution denialism without taking the modern American political context into account. Dismissing those who you disagree with as "insane" is not only a cop-out, it's bad analysis. --Mr.98 (talk) 14:20, 22 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- It doesn't matter much. Khamenei or whoever succeeds him is the real authority anyway. It concede that it did seem a little better under Khatami. --Trovatore (talk) 09:02, 22 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Nil Einne -- A conciliatory rhetorical gesture would have been highly useful because of the previous tremendous ill-will and negative feelings toward him in the United States, which his previous actions and sayings had generated (starting with the international "I love Adolf Hitler" conference which he convened, and going down the whole long list). A conciliatory verbal gesture would have been a cheap way of presenting himself as a person of some degree of good will, and could have done something to smooth things over slightly and preserve a semi-façade of politeness. The lack of any such gesture convinced a significant segment of the American people that Ahmadinajad was proud of being an insufferable asshole, and was determined to continue as such... AnonMoos (talk) 11:14, 22 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Is there any chance of someone who knows how folding the acres of political posturing above into one of those handy fold-up hidey things? For the benefit of those who still want to use this page as a reference desk. 180.148.3.62 (talk) 09:14, 22 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- I agree. --Mr.98 (talk) 14:20, 22 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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