WT:CITE

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Frequently asked questions

Why doesn't Wikipedia require everyone to use exactly the same style for formatting citations on every single article, regardless of the subject?: Different academic disciplines use different styles because they have different needs and interests. Variations include differences in the choice of information to include, the order in which the information is presented, the punctuation, and the name of the section headings under which the information is presented. There is no house style on Wikipedia, and the community does not want to have the holy war that will happen if we tell people that they must use the style preferred by scientists in articles about history or the style preferred by artists when writing about science. Editors should choose a style that they believe is appropriate for the individual article in question and should never edit-war over the style of citations.
What styles are commonly used?: There are many published style manuals. For British English the Oxford Style Manual is the authoritative source. For American English the Chicago Manual of Style is commonly used by historians and in the fine arts. Other US style guides include APA style which is used by sociologists and psychologists, and The MLA Style Manual which is used in humanities. The Council of Science Editors and Vancouver styles are popular with scientists. Editors on Wikipedia may use any style they like, including styles they have made up themselves. It is unusual for Wikipedia articles to strictly adhere to a formally published academic style.
Isn't everyone required to use clickable footnotes like this^[1] to cite sources in an article?: Yes. Footnotes (also called "<ref> tags") or shortened footnotes are now required in new articles, although some older articles may still use the now-deprecated citation system of inline parenthetical referencing (see WP:PARREF).
Why doesn't Wikipedia require everyone to use citation templates in every single article?: Citation templates have advantages and disadvantages. They provide machine-readable meta data and can be used by editors who don't know how to properly order and format a citation. However, they are intimidating and confusing to most new users, and, if more than a few dozen are used, they make the pages noticeably slower to load. Editors should use their best judgment to decide which format best suits each specific article.
Isn't there a rule that every single sentence requires an inline citation?: No. Wikipedia:Verifiability requires citations based on the content rather than the grammar. Sometimes, one sentence will require multiple inline citations. In other instances, a whole paragraph will not require any inline citations.
Aren't general references prohibited?: A general reference is a citation listed at the end of an article, without any system for linking it to a particular bit of material. In an article that contains more than a couple of sentences, it is more difficult to maintain text-source integrity without using inline citations, but general references can be useful and are not banned. However, they are not adequate if the material is one of four types of content requiring an inline citation. The article Early life of Joseph Smith, Jr. is an example of a featured article that uses some general references.
Can I cite a sign?: Yes, signs, including gravestones, that are displayed in public are considered publications. If the article is using citation templates, then use ((cite sign)). You may also cite works of art, videos, music album liner notes, sheet music, interviews, recorded speeches, podcasts, television episodes, maps, public mailing lists, ship registers, and a wide variety of other things that are published and accessible to the public.

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Semi-protected edit request on 12 October 2015

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

115.248.160.3 (talk) 10:41, 12 October 2015 (UTC) sdsddfwedsxaxxzcxczxczxczxc[reply]

Nonsense request. Relentlessly (talk) 10:43, 12 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Embedded links in templates/tables

I've been looking through the archives and have found quite a bit of discussion about embedded links/embedded citations, but I haven't found anything yet about the use of embedded links in templates/tables. WP:CS#Avoid embedded links says that "embedded links should never be used to place external links in the content of the article", so embedding an external link in a sentence like "The company's website Example.com was officially launched in May 2015" is considered incorrect, right? My question is whether the same applies to external links embedded into templates/tables, particularly when it comes to game results in sports related articles.

Personally, I think a properly formatted inline citation is almost always an improvement since it provides information about the source being cited which may help fix any future link rot related issues, but embedding links seems to be pretty much the de facto practice for such articles. The embedded links I've come across are nothing more than a bare url with a generic label such as "Result", "Summary", "Report, "Statistics", etc. with nothing at all about the source added to "References". The arguments I've encountered from those in favor of embedding always seem to boil down to "that's how it's done in other similar articles", "that's the way it's always been done", "our WikiProject does it this way", "having too many citations is not good", etc. with no consideration being given at all to the possibility of link rot even though many sports websites tend to recycle their content regularly and re-use their urls for other content.

Has the community ever come to a consensus on this kind of thing? Are such links considered acceptable exceptions like the "official website" links in infoboxes? Are there any guidelines regarding such links and link rot? Do you simple re-embed an archived version of the dead link or do you need to convert it to an inline citations since |archiveurl= and |archivedate= are typically used in such cases? Is this simply a case of it being better to leave well enough alone instead of tying to tilt at windmills? -- Marchjuly (talk) 05:51, 28 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Bundling Considered Harmful

I'd like to point out that the idea of reference bundling, while not terrible per se, is being "blindly" applied in certain articles without regard to whether it's really necessary (not every instance of 2 refs in a row calls for bundling), and with no apparent consideration to what the ref list looks like after it's done (see the first example here—I'm not citing a specific "real" example so as not to call out a particular editor). As with anything, editors still need to think about what they're doing, and whether their changes benefit readers. - dcljr (talk) 05:06, 3 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Particular cases should be discussed on the Talk pages of the articles concerned. This page would be more suitable for discussing "bundling" generally. Anyone interested? ~ J. Johnson (JJ) (talk) 00:23, 4 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Mildly differ with both the above. That is, we should have a specific example to see what the problem is. It is the edit not the editor, in question. On bundling in general: it is very useful. Especially when the footnote supports more than one sentence. I strongly prefer titled bundles (a descriptive name at the top like footnotes 1, 7 and 13 here) instead of naked bundles (no indication of what the cites have in common, like footnote 29 here). Titled bundles are especially needful on Wikipedia since text gets shifted, footnotes get orphaned. Without the title you can't be sure all the cites in the bundle still support a revised sentence or paragraph. Now, editors with habits leftover from print publications, books and articles, don't see the need for titles on bundled footnotes. The habitual assumption is the text over the footnote suffices. But Wikipedia is a different animal: footnotes on Wikipedia don't stay glued to their text. In sum: yes to bundling, and preferably titled bundles.ElijahBosley ^{(talk ☞)} 13:42, 4 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

OK, well, what do people think about this way of bundling? (Yes it's about the edit and not the editor, but this editor has changed multiple articles in the same way.) Compare the reflist before and after the changes (in particular, see "after" notes 9, 15, 22…). I suggested a different way (yes, I know it was a naked bundle) and pointed out it doesn't work with named references. The other editor has tried doing things differently, apparently with mixed results. If someone more familiar with bundling could weigh in on this, that would be great. - dcljr (talk) 03:13, 5 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Competing formats for cites? Is that the issue? Rather than bundle/not bundle? I note that with naked bundles, using quotes in the cite is wonderfully helpful as in footnote 2 in the example given above. The second cite in the footnote offers the quote: "R is also the name of a popular programming language used by a growing number of data analysts inside corporations and academia. It is becoming their lingua franca ..." That tells the reader what the footnote buttresses, in a way that a naked bundle would not.ElijahBosley ^{(talk ☞)} 14:49, 5 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The solution you want is shortened footnotes. ((sfnm)) supports the inclusion of multiple sources in a single footnote. This style allows multiple authors and exact page numbers all rolled into one superscripted number. That same source can be reused, yet with different page numbers. The problem is that all the citations would need to be converted to the shortened footnote format, which is uncommon and would confuse most editors. So yes, there is a better solution than using ((refn | to bundle citations, however since that solution looks like ((sfnm | 1a1=Phillips-Fein | 1y=2009 | 1p=115 | 2a1=Hamowy | 2y=2008 | 2p=217 | 3a1=Perelman | 3y=2007 | 3p=64 | 4a1=Schneider | 4y=2009 | 4p=47 | 5a1=Mirowski | 5a2=Plehwe | 5y=2009 | 5p=285 | 6a1=Olson | 6y=2009 | 7a1=Lichtman | 7y=2008 | 7p=160 | quote5="… going so far as to help Mises publish his Magnum Opus Human Action …")) , that solution also has baggage. Abel (talk) 18:27, 5 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, EB, the issue is how bundling is done rather than whether or not to bundle (although personally, I think bundling is a solution in search of a problem, but whatever...) OTOH, the issue is not simply "competing formats"; I think the {refn} way of doing it is actually fundamentally confusing to readers, since it is unlike any other common method of footnoting in use around here. (IOW, the objection is to a footnote containing merely a list of bracketed numbers, which are references to other footnotes — that's just crazy [and these numbers are also shown in the tooltip when hovering on the note number, which is even worse]). The shortened notes approach, if bundled as above, would be confusing to more editors, but I care a little less about that (unless, of course, it leads to many bad edits). Finally, the objection to naked bundles seems to me to be merely an aesthetic one (it doesn't bother me, but I would not object if someone wants to take the time to add "titles" to such bundles). - dcljr (talk) 20:22, 5 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Again, the solution you want is shortened footnotes, for example: "... and individual lectures.^[1]" Abel (talk) 03:38, 6 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Notes

^ Phillips-Fein 2009, p. 115; Hamowy 2008, p. 217; Perelman 2007, p. 64; Schneider 2009, p. 47; Mirowski & Plehwe 2009, p. 285; Olson 2009; Lichtman 2008, p. 160.

References

Phillips-Fein, Kim (2009). Invisible Hands: The Making of the Conservative Movement from the New Deal to Reagan. New York: W. W. Norton. p. ii, 27, 52, 60, 86, 101, 115, 116, 124, 149, 167, 265, 270, 285, 286. ISBN 978-0-393-05930-4. ((cite book)): Invalid |ref=harv (help)
Hamowy, Ronald, ed. (2008). The Encyclopedia of Libertarianism. Thousand Oaks, CA: SAGE Publications, Cato Institute. pp. 62, 217, 221, 335, 416, 417. ISBN 978-1-4129-6580-4. LCCN 2008009151. OCLC 750831024 http://books.google.com/books?id=yxNgXs3TkJYC. ((cite encyclopedia)): Invalid |ref=harv (help); Missing or empty |title= (help)
Perelman, Michael (2007). The Confiscation of American Prosperity from Right-Wing Extremism and Economic Ideology to the Next Great Depression. New York: Palgrave Macmillan. p. 64. ISBN 978-0-230-60046-1. ((cite book)): Invalid |ref=harv (help)
Schneider, Gregory L (2009). The Conservative Century: From Reaction to Revolution. Lanham, MD: Rowman & Littlefield. p. 47. ISBN 978-0-7425-4284-6. ((cite book)): Invalid |ref=harv (help)
Mirowski, Philip; Plehwe, Dieter (2009). The Road from Mont Pèlerin: The Making of the Neoliberal Thought Collective. Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press. pp. 15, 19, 21, 53, 156, 190, 196, 243, 281, 284, 293, 387, 397, 410. ISBN 978-0-674-03318-4. ((cite book)): Invalid |ref=harv (help)
Olson, Wayne (September 28, 2009). "An Inside Look at the Foundation for Economic Education FEE" (Interview). Interviewed by Pete Eyre. ((cite interview)): |access-date= requires |url= (help); Invalid |ref=harv (help); Unknown parameter |city= ignored (|location= suggested) (help); Unknown parameter |program= ignored (help)
Lichtman, Allan J (2008). White Protestant Nation: The Rise of the American Conservative Movement. New York: Grove Press. pp. 160, 171, 173, 206. ISBN 978-0-8021-4420-1. ((cite book)): Invalid |ref=harv (help)

Okay, someone please clarify for me: what exactly do we mean by "bundle" and "bundling"? Is a string of footnote links in the text (e.g.: ^[1][7][13]) itself a bundle? Is "bundling" putting all of the same citations into a single note? And (EB?) what are naked and titled bundles? ~ J. Johnson (JJ) (talk) 23:56, 5 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Yes: bundling lists several cites in one foonote, usually with bullet points. Instead of a separate footnote for each cite which leaves text looking something like this^1234567. Examples of bundled footnotes are footnotes 1, 7 and 13 here. Each has a descriptive name at the top. That is the title. And while I am at it let me give a pat on the back for the excellent answer by Abel above.ElijahBosley ^{(talk ☞)} 13:24, 6 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion about generalizing |editor= to support other roles

See Help talk:Citation Style 1#Contribution rather than Others (I can't make the section link work properly here!)

The idea is to deprecate the |editor= set of parameters and deprecate using |others= for other types of contributor, such as prefacers, translators, illustrators etc. The |author= family of parameters plus a new |role= parameter would be used instead. All input welcome. Aymatth2 (talk) 17:14, 4 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: @Aymatth2:, the problem is not the link you were trying to use, it's because there are collapsed tables farther up the page from your target section. Most, if not all, browsers render the tables and then collapse them, shifting all the text up, so you're no longer looking at the right section. I assume this bug has been reported, since it's been around for months if not years; not sure it's something MediaWiki developers can fix, though. - dcljr (talk) 20:51, 5 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]