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POV issues aside, shouldn't this article be named 2008 Armenian presidential election protests VartanM (talk) 20:28, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
VartanM (talk) 22:04, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
1 all numbers should be sourced with reliable, neutral, non-Armenian sources.
2 again reliable sources, preferably neutral, non-Armenian
3 we can say that he was being held in his house, but was not officially under house arrest. And then state the official reason.
VartanM (talk) 22:20, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for the pictures. VartanM (talk) 22:20, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
The two sources that need to be replaced are A1+ and Armenianliberty, both are anti-government. I'm looking for neutral ones to replace them. VartanM (talk) 22:26, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
Please note that we can cite differing perspectives and versions of things, from both the government and the opposition, and we don't have to settle on one version as the truth, with a certain "neutral" source backing it up. NPOV means that we try to represent what various sides say in a controversy. As a simplistic example, you could have: "On Day X, 50,000 protesters were present according to pro-opposition media source Y,[cite] while pro-government media source Z said that only 15,000 were present.[cite]" Everyking (talk) 03:28, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
Please don't be alarmed about the citation tags I have been inserting, I will add the citations in a little while. VartanM (talk) 03:00, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
February 25th section is wholly under WP:Not a newspaper. It needs to be rewritten. VartanM (talk) 03:49, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
I recommend cutting down on the photo gallery and perhaps adding a few of the images to the body of the article instead. Pocopocopocopoco (talk) 01:19, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
Serouj,
Under the rules of Wikipedia (WP:NPOV), we cannot present any one's opinion as the truth, even if such opinion is authoritative. HRW's opinion is an opinion--even if it's the truth, we do not present it as fact in this Encyclopedia. It's against the rules. I have made some changes in the language to reflect the fact that such opinions belong to appropriate sources and not directly to Wikipedia.--TigranTheGreat (talk) 05:13, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
Perhaps reading the following pages will help acquaint yourself with the rules: WP:NPOV, WP:NOR, WP:V. In other words, pretend you are from planet Mars, you have not seen the events yourself, and you are trying to tell to your fellow Martians what is happening in Armenia. --TigranTheGreat (talk) 06:21, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
Wouldn't "2008 Armenian political crisis" or "2008 Armenian political unrest" work better than the present title? There were more dimensions to these incidents other than the LTP protests. -- Aivazovsky (talk) 14:42, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
riots and revolt would be better, and this article needs to be cleaned up. reads like a levon ter pterssian propoganda brochure, enough with alleged peacful demonstrators, who somehow brought anarchy. what is reliability of those pictures? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.68.31.146 (talk) 21:04, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
Move the pictures to wikipedia commons, have a link to commons in this article, keep 3-4 pictures in this article. Have a separate article called Timeline in the 2008 Armenian presidential election protests, keep a summary of the timeline in this article and a link to the timeline article. Pocopocopocopoco (talk) 05:39, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
I've removed the following text from the intro: "...the protests, which were unauthorized by the government as required [citation needed] under Armenian law..."
The text was removed because it is incorrect. According to the Council of Europe's Commissioner for Human Rights (in its March 20 report, Section 5: State of Emergency): "Previously the municipal authorities only needed to be notified of the intent to hold rallies, demonstrations or manifestations. The amendments full conformity with article 11 paragraph 2 of the European Convention can be questioned." Serouj (talk) 14:23, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
I'm removing the "totally disputed" tag from the top of this page, because all major points of this article that needed citation have been referenced by neutral and/or reliable sources. Serouj (talk) 19:05, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
The number of death has risen to 10 as 2 more civilians died of injuries in the hospital, I updated this number in the article, with the given source. Baku87 (talk) 10:27, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
The fighting wasnt just merely within the borders of NKR, but also outside which is known as Karabakh, thus Karabakh is the correct term to use. Just saying NKR is POV, I corrected this. Baku87 (talk) 10:38, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
"special forces firing directly at protesters on night of March 1" Dear Seroj First and foremost it never shows any direct shooting. It shows some thugs running away, and then calmly getting in the car, all the while the special forces are suppose to be shooting at them with automatic weapons. And if you further look at the video you'll see that the weapons don't recoil. Which means they're not shooting. Which brings us to the editing. The original sound of the video is completely missing and is replaced by a sound effect(shooting). And the bullet traces are clearly edited also, we can see the same kind of cheep, wannabe effects in Gor Vardanian movies. I will welcome you to add the original un-eddited versions of this videos. Otherwise your misleading the readers. Narine08 (talk) 04:32, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
Eyewitnesses, among them an RFE/RL correspondent, say that without prior warnings, security forces fired tracer bullets over the crowd for more than 40 minutes in a bid to disperse it. In the meantime, a unit of riot troops charged towards one of the barricades but fled the scene after unsuccessful pitched battles with opposition supporters armed with sticks, stones and Molotov cocktails.
— Radio Free Europe: Armenia Liberty, June 27, 2008.[1]
References
I just watched the second youtube video and it made me laugh. The second clip (at around 2:49) shows green laser lights coming out of AK-47 rifles. WTF? This is clearly edited in some cheap video editing software. It is clear that the sound track was changed. It is clear that machine guns don't have green lasers installed on them. Also it is impossible to see a speeding bullet on a cheap amateur video (cell phone?) camera. Doesn't this *fake* video jeopardise the whole article's credibility? -Սահակ/Sahak (talk) 00:25, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
Material from Armenian presidential election, 2008 was split to 2008 Armenian presidential election protests on March 1, 2008 at 16:21. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted so long as the latter page exists. Please leave this template in place to link the article histories and preserve this attribution. The former page's talk page can be accessed at Talk:Armenian presidential election, 2008. |
Here below is a long paragraph, mainly unsourced, with was on the page about politics of Armenia--Dans (talk) 21:45, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
Although the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) monitored the Presidential elections and concluded that they were "mostly in line with international standards," Armenian opposition leader Levon Ter-Petrosian protested the election results. Protesters supporting Ter-Petrosian began demonstrating in the capital city of Yerevan shortly after the results were announced. So far nine deaths have been reported as a result of conflicts between the police, the army, and the demonstrators in the streets of Yerevan. Human Rights Watch has accused the police of disproportionate violence.[1] Additionally, the government has been accused of charging only opposition activists, and failing to follow-up accusations against the police[2]
On Saturday, 1 March 2008, the outgoing president Robert Kocharian declared a state of emergency for the city and Levon Ter-Petrosian (who was in home arrest) recorded a message that was played over loudspeakers through the city of Yerevan the next day. In the message, Ter-Petrosian urged his supporters to return to their homes to avoid conflicts with the army and police and vowed to pursue the election results through legal channels. A constitutional court heard and rejected the case on 8 March 2008 because of the state of constitutional emergency.
The Centre for the Popular Movement (CPM) convened a sitting on 25 April. The Centre is going to challenge the outcome of the 19 February Presidential election at the European Court of Human Rights. An experts’ panel including Armenian and foreign lawyers will be set up to elaborate the lawsuit, the pre-election headquarters for Levon Ter-Petrossian reports.
According to the RA law on criminal legislation article 225.3 and article 300 first part the RA police started investigation on the following RA citizens to be sentenced: Sasun Mekhaki Mikaelyan (born in 07.11.1957, c. Hrazdan, Vanatur, 76ap) and Khachatur Alberti Sukiasyan (born in 15.09.1961, c Yerevan, Zavaryan str. 6) and according to the RA law on criminal legislation Nikol Vovayi Pashinyan (born in 01.06.1975, registered in c. Idjevan, Metaghagortsneri str. 3; but living in c. Yerevan, G. Nzhdeh str. 29, fl 15) is under investigation. Overall, there are 135 political prisoners in RA.
According to the police, they are accused in the following organizing mass disorder on 1 March 2008 in Opera square, Yerevan by the former RA president Levon Ter-Petrosyan and his confidants, breaking the law, for organizing public disorder and conducting it, for getting, keeping illegal weapons, for carrying out violation towards the police officers, on 1 March 2008 organizing mass disorder in the central part of the capital and the municipality building which was held by using weapons, murders, breaking and injuring properties, violation, firing and opposing the police officers.
In the message spread by the police, it is particularly mentioned those who have any information about the people under investigation should call the police central department 52-02-02, 53-02-02, or 56-02-02 or else, apply to their nearby police station. [3]
On 22 April, Zharangutiu (Heritage) Party MPs have requested the RA Prosecutor General to review the preventive punishments of Smbat Aivazian, member of the Hanrapetutiu (Republic) Party’s Political Board, and Arshak Banuchian, deputy director of the Matendaran. Reminder: Smbat Aivazian was detained on 24 February and Arsah Banuchian after the 1 March events. The Party proceeds collection of signatures in the National Assembly required to change the restraint of the detained parliamentarians. “Zharangutiun” submitted a solicitation of restraint with the Procurator’s Office two days ago. "Zharangutiun" MP Zaruhi Postanjian said that the solicitation was not rejected
On 23 April 2008, a day before the commemoration of the Armenian Genocide in the Ottoman Empire, the Armenian journalist Gayane Arustamian held a protest action near the Matenadaran. She was accompanied by RA citizen Lala Aslikian. The protesters voiced complaint against genocides and murders. Over ten policemen watched the women’s action at the head of Ruben Melkonian. The protesters were holding a poster with an English inscription, "How can you prevent genocide?" At first, the policemen didn’t interfere with them as they didn’t understand the English sentence. Soon they got indignant seeing the second poster with an Armenian inscription, "What is the cost of the ten murdered people?" They finally flew into a rage after the protesters raised the third poster: "24 April 1915: Taliat, Jemal, Enver. 1 March 2008: Robert, Serzh, Artur. "How dare you instil hatred? Don’t you feel ashamed of yourself, you are my daughter’s age," said one of the policemen. The moment the protesters were answering journalists’ questions, the policemen grasped the posters and tore them off. "You can tear off the posters but you cannot uproot my tongue," said Gayane Arustamian. She left the site in triumph.
Since morning 24 April (the Armenian Genocide day), Azatutyan (Liberty) Square had been surrounded by policemen grouped on the sidewalks or walking to and fro. Police buses and cars rested right in the square center. The reason was the march to be conducted by opposition leaders from Azatutyan Square to Tsitsernakaberd at 3pm. In reply to the question why there were so many policemen in the square, one of the policemen answered humorously: "You can peacefully walk in here. Nothing is going to happen." Another policeman seriously advised: "You’d better not show yourself at the neighborhoods around 3pm." The doctors in police clinic were to be alert and ready to overwork.
On the Genocide commemoration day, thousands of people, accompanied by opposition leaders, made for Tsitsernakaberd from Northern Avenue. The police closed Baghramian Avenue allowing the marchers only to walk along the sidewalk. Chairman of People’s Party Stepan Demirchian, Chairman of Hanrapetutyun (Republic) Party Aram Sargisian , Leader of the Social Democratic Henchak Party Lyudmila Sarkissian , former spokesman of Levon Ter-Petrossian Levon Zurabian, and Davit Shahnazarian conducted the march.
However hard the policemen tried to persuade people to walk along the sidewalk, they failed. In the end the police yielded and opened one side of the avenue. New groups of people joined the marchers on the way to Tsitsernakaberd. Roads have not been closed and there are no traffic problems recorded. Anyway, there are water-pumping and razor wire cars on Demirchian Street.
References
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Some of the references here are tagged "dubious"', and have been since 2008. Is there any reason either not to trust the source and remove the dubious tag, or otherwise to, unless other sources can be found, remove the information as unsourced. If the source has been dubious for 12 years, and still is, it should be remove. Shadowssettle(talk) 12:56, 6 May 2020 (UTC)