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Accurate Original Burns Text?

Just reading the 'Burns text' overleaf and see that it differs in several, albeit small, ways from the text in my 1893 copy of the Poetical Works of Robert Burns (The 'Albion' edition) published by Frederick Warne and Co. (Printers Morrison and Gibb Edinburgh).

So just what is the authentic original text? A bit of a mystery for someone to research methinks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.19.55.95 (talk) 12:57, 22 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The Morgan Library & Museum, seen at the top of the External links section, offers multiple versions that could claim to be the original one: a manuscript by Burns (dated to 1793); The Scots Musical Museum, which they say is the first publication (1796); and what they say is the first publication with the current tune (1799). —2d37 (talk) 03:13, 27 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

IPA pronunciation guide: Alveolar tap or alveolar trill?

In the IPA pronunciation guide in Auld Lang Syne § Lyrics, which aims to describe Burns' own Ayrshire dialect, the 'r' sounds are transcribed variously as an alveolar tap or flap /ɾ/ and an alveolar trill /r/. However, the cited source on "The dialect of Robert Burns as spoken in central Ayrshire" repeatedly says that the 'r' is a trill[1]: 11,21,82,180  and, so far as I see, never calls it a tap or flap. I'll BOLDly change the pronunciation guide to use /r/ consistently, to follow what the source says. —2d37 (talk) 08:32, 28 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Wilson, James (1923). The dialect of Robert Burns as spoken in central Ayrshire. Oxford University Press – via Archive.org.

Stoup/stowp: cup or mug?

@Soundofmusicals and Getting The Knack: Regarding Special:Diff/997345100 and Special:Diff/997379746, when I saw the former edit in my watchlist, I checked the Dictionary of the Scots Language and found that it indeed says "mug" for "stoup" (and even doesn't say "cup"):[1]

2. A smaller-sized vessel for holding liquor, sometimes also used as a drinking-vessel, acc. to its size, which varied considerably, a mug, flagon, tankard, decanter (Sc. 1808 Jam.; Cai. 1939; n. and em.Sc. (a), Lnk., Wgt. 1971), freq. with the name of the measure of its capacity prefixed, as chopin-, gill-, mutchkin-, pint-, quart-stowp; hence the measure itself (Sc. 1808 Jam.; Cai. 1939). Obs. or dial. in Eng. Now chiefly hist.

[...]

Ayr. 1788 Burns Auld Lang Syne ii.:
And surely ye'll be your pint stowp! And surely I'll be mine!

I would have added the citation then, but, the "Standard English version (singable)" having no citations anyway, I didn't see where would be least awkward to put such a citation and moved on to other things.

Personally, I don't see much of a difference between saying "pint-cup" or "pint-mug", as the size of the cup/mug is fixed by the preceding word "pint". —2d37 (talk) 08:39, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The source cited for "The dialect of Robert Burns" translates it as "pint-pot",[2]: 146–148  but then their translation overall seems strange. (Should old friendship be forgotten / And never brought to remembrance?) —2d37 (talk) 08:51, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Having a closer look at this - there is actually nothing sacred about our "translation" here - it does not, so far as I can see, literally follow a quoted source. Just a word for keeping the current text - it has evolved as a version that makes the meaning of the Scots lyrics clear, while avoiding multisyllabic "dictionary" equivalents that would be awkward to sing. In this respect there seems to be little to choose between "cup" and "mug" - to this non-drinker a "cup" is what you drink tea from, whereas a "mug" suggests coco. "Pot", on the other hand, sounds more like the implement used for cooking porridge! Although I am told that in some places it is an official "pub" measure (more often a half-pint than a full one). A toast is sometimes called a "loving-cup" (or, indeed "a cup 'o' kindness", as here!) - which might be what whoever put together our original "English" version had in mind. How would people (other than Scots, of course, and non-Scots at least making an attempt to sing in dialect) sing this verse? The short answer is they probably wouldn't sing it all - a very large proportion of the people who will be singing it in context over the next twelve hours or so will not go past the "first verse and chorus", when all is said and done. --Soundofmusicals (talk) 13:49, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

My answer to your edit summary is "no, not to me", and I make no objection to your position (though, for the last two sentences, that's because I don't feel qualified to comment, being of a culture that doesn't seem to sing the song at all). —2d37 (talk) 13:04, 2 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ "Stowp n.". Dictionary of the Scots Language. Scottish Language Dictionaries. 2004. Retrieved 31 December 2020.
  2. ^ Wilson, James (1923). The dialect of Robert Burns as spoken in central Ayrshire. Oxford University Press – via Archive.org.