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This article was nominated for deletion on 8 April 2014. The result of the discussion was No consensus. |
From WP:RfD:
David and Goliath is now a sensible redirect to Goliath, and the clothing company is listed at Goliath (disambiguation) as David and Goliath (clothing company). Any sensible person familiar with Wikipedia and with the ancient story would have done it that way in the first place. Anyone not familiar with the ancient story will not understand the name of the clothing company anyway. Michael Hardy 23:32, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
Hey, hey, hey, there are so many misogynist shirts out there ("Big Johnson", "Beaver Hunt") and everybody gets mad at this unserious, cute little shirt? Men's rights my ass. 67.160.174.24 (talk) 14:51, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
I think such tone sounds sexist: "Boys are stupid throw rocks at them" And another thing - this company, trading these stuff is Worldwidely Unfamous and Obscure, it's unimportant. It's not Gucci!
I love Natalie Dee, she is a genius Maerk 09:21, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
Natalie Dee doesn't want any public association with Goldman, even as a critic.
“ | i don't want that on my wikipedia. i have purposefully distanced myself from the goldman debacle, it is just a coincidence that i parodied him prior to everything with him and dave kelly going down. todd goldman has nothing to do with my art career. | ” |
This was in reply to my email. On 4/26/07, Alastair Haines <edited> wrote:
Didn't Canada customs ban the import of these t shirts to Canada for a period of time, arguing they violated Canada's hate speech laws ??? Does anyone have any information on that they can add ???
Since gender isn't one of the prohibited grounds under that law, I don't see how that could be correct. -- Spock 156.34.72.161 15:32, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
--there is no criminal law against hate speech directed towards a particular sex. HOwever, there are other laws on the books that prevent hatred of someone because of thier sex.
Why was "Much of this money will probably end up in the pockets of the original artists from whom Goldman plagiarised many of his designs." deleted? We're all fairly sure by now that Goldman plagiarizes and a lawsuit is inevitable.
I support the merge. Any other comments? GarryKosmos 04:24, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
Comment - Where have all the real men gone
I like this article, didn't hear about it here in Australia, very useful datum.
Gotta say though, the boy IS stupid, and he is a BOY -- he's running away.
Men, on the other hand, pick up the rocks and throw 'em back.
Unless of course it's girls throwing rocks. Men don't fight women, and women will always throw rocks.
Seriously though, I'm against the merger, this article is better than the other one.
This article rocks! ;) Have a nice day y'all Alastair Haines 22:41, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
I'm flagging this article for expansion. I've added a section and some external links, including a TV broadcast at the bottom of the list. There's a lot of solid reference material there. I've also created redirects at:
Someone else's turn to do some stuff, cheers. Alastair Haines 20:32, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
OK, I've added some more stuff. This issue is much bigger than Goldman. The slogans he created have become cliches in journalistic comments on gender issues. Ironically, I think the bad press the Men's movement gave Goldman only increased his profits. However, it seems to have worked both ways. Goldman's implied denegration of men has increased public sympathy for the men's movement.
Absolutely fascinating cultural study. If no-one else does it, I'll be back to do some more research, and report any further developments. It's amazing how free speech, allowing expression of extreme views, can actually lead to greater public understanding and discernment. It just takes time.
I hope we all agree to respect not only Goldman's free speech, and that of his critics, but that we also remember:
Letters to web-site hosts have been posted by Goldman's lawyers. He really shouldn't have to do this.
This is from Boing Boing (cartoon artists web-site).
Think about the words in bold, they are true aren't they?
from Andrew.P.Felix@[redacted] to authors date Apr 19, 2007 6:10 PM subject Todd Goldman
Andrew P. Felix, Esq. wrote: Dear Sir or MadamR This firm represents Mr. Todd Goldman. I write on behalf of Mr. Goldman regarding certain comments and disparaging remarks that are posted and housed on your website (www.[edited].com).
We have acquired articles posted on your website which contain defaming, derogatory and malicious statements about Mr. Goldman. Therefore, we request that you immediately remove these article from your website, as well as any subsequent articles and/or URL links of this nature regarding Mr. Goldman. Further, the hosting of such statements and/or URL links about Mr. Goldman is actionable defamation and libel that has caused irreversible damage to his character.
Unless we receive written assurance that you have removed these article, as well as any subsequent articles and/or URL links of this nature regarding Mr. Goldman, from your website by the close of business on Friday, April 20, 2007, we will have no other alternative but to take action to seek injunctive and monetary relief against you pursuant to Florida law. Please be advised that we will also seek to recover attorneys’ fees and costs associated with this matter. As time is of the essence, this action must be taken immediately.
This letter is not, nor should it be construed to be, a waiver of any rights or remedies available to Mr. Goldman under federal or state law, whether now existing or hereafter accruing.
PLEASE GOVERN YOURSELF ACCORDINGLY.
Sincerely, SHUTTS & BOWEN LLP
/s/Andrew P. Felix
The following text has been removed from the display page, but may be highly relevant to the article later:
Further controversy has dogged Goldman. Some see resemblance between the boy in Goldman's cartoon, and a character in Chip Wass' The Intel Bunch. [1]
Alastair Haines 11:31, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
I read more books than I watch TV, but that is not true of all readers. I would have though audio-visual is a great asset to an article. Happy to hear other views, including issues of legal sensitivity. Cheers. Alastair Haines 03:40, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
I'm not sure that those comments are endorsing the products... I thought an endorsement was a positive statement?
It seems to me that the introduction to the article is at best somewhat inaccurate, and perhaps subtly biased. It describes the slogan as "tongue-in-cheek," which is a subjective consideration -- regardless of whether or not the designer intended for it to be tongue-in-cheek, many people would consider it otherwise. It also states the t-shirt is "popular," which seems contrary to many of the reactions against it. As such, I've removed these phrases. --HarmonicFeather 15:13, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
This is a shirt with a boy pushing a girl out of a window, also generated controversy. Appropriate for comparison and/or a separate article? ~Eliz81(C) 10:19, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
“ | Do you remember the "Boys are stupid, Throw rocks at them" t-shirt http://www.boysarestupid.co.uk/ ?
I don't recall Donna Shepherd, executive director of the Family Violence Project, complaining about that. I don't remember District Attorney Evert Fowle making an issue about violence to boys. I don't recall Kristin Aiello of Hallowell, a lawyer who frequently represents children involved in the court system, being upset about t-shirts targeting boys. Personally, I don't find anything funny about the "Problem Solved" shirt. I don't find anything funny about the fact that more children are abused by their mothers than fathers. And that is a problem I wish could be solved. |
” |
http://worldofwassco.com/portfolio/character10.html turns up a error. I will mark the citation with a fact tag, so you can find it easily. Kushal 23:45, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
In what sense is this article's subject notable? 78.86.128.70 (talk) 14:47, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
I am also confused by this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.30.142.137 (talk) 23:23, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
The shirt company has a Flash game in which a girl throws rocks at a boy, who gets progressively more damaged. There's a Boys Are Stupid journal, 2009 calendar, a board game, posters, and other clothing including pajama tops and bottoms. Шизомби (talk) 12:20, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
This is why I can't take feminism seriously all it does is hate and blame all men for the world's problems.--58.7.73.157 (talk) 13:45, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
Sorry that is just how I fell.--58.7.73.157 (talk) 14:17, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
Yet another example of humanity's unwavering obsession to divide and insult. Is it any wonder I hate everyone? 86.45.152.211 (talk) 23:04, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
Not at all, we may as well be resigned then be farcically divided. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.235.143.73 (talk) 04:27, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
STFU this is a discussion page, not an opinion blog. God, some people never learn.
Since this artical is about something that encourages Misandry, why isn’t there any mention that the item perpetuates the flaws of feminism? After all doesn’t misandry cover a majority of Antifeminism, that’s responsible fore many false accusations and keeping feminie movements stationary and not progressing? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.235.143.73 (talk) 11:50, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
I would prefer it if someone would answerer my question. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.7.109.51 (talk) 12:25, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
Its reputation had died at least 100 years ago, everyone knows that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.7.249.141 (talk) 13:33, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
The lead section of this article currently reads, "The material includes statements such as: 'boys come from the stupid factory'..." etc., but there is no prior mention of what "the material" consists of. The previous sentences mention the "throw rocks at them" David and Goliath T-shirt and a People magazine article, but it's not clear if either of these are "the material". I suspect that "the material" is a wider social phenomenon - probably several T-shirts? also the book? - but that needs to be made explicit. Cnilep (talk) 20:02, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
What an artistic fraud this guy is: even the cover to this book is traced over someone else's art! - Stormwatch (talk) 02:07, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
The (modified) quote by Wendy McElroy which appears in the text is ambiguous at best, or possibly just downright misleading.
As presented, the sentence is best read as meaning: "Glenn Sacks' campaign against these shirts is a good example of how hate mongering is a lucrative business and the best remedy is to yank away the financial incentive."
...This is filed under 'campaign supporters,' which is odd because she doesn't sound very supportive here. Perhaps this quote needs to be trimmed a little less aggressively. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.19.84.33 (talk) 17:44, 26 July 2010 (UTC)
At the end of the article, the phrase "empowerment" links to the wiki page for "Hate Crime." Is there a reason for this? 76.30.244.221 (talk) 20:41, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
The title stongly implies it.
The last paragraph of T-shirt and its success says "Due to this the T-shirts are targeted at any female of any age who identifies herself as a Feminist, since the shirts represent all of what feminist are." how ever the previous sentence was "According to the Wall Street Journal, the sales volume of David and Goliath was expected to rise to US$ 100 million in 2005, up from US$ 90 million in the previous year." So could someone explain why an increase in sales of a T-shirt causes it to be aimed at all feminists?86.186.187.55 (talk) 17:53, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
Because feminist are a majority and the word feminism is just another word for misandry.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.169.215.184 (talk) 02:09, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
It seems odd to me that the "BOYS LIE" meme (T-shirts, buttons, etc.), which predates this one by many years and was (and remains) far more prevalent (I saw a 30-something woman wearing a "BOYS LIE" shirt only a few days ago), isn't even mentioned. — SMcCandlish Talk⇒ ɖ∘¿¤þ Contrib. 10:53, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
An RfC: Which descriptor, if any, can be added in front of Southern Poverty Law Center when referenced in other articles? has been posted at the Southern Poverty Law Center talk page. Your participation is welcomed. – MrX 16:34, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
Do we have any sources saying that the controversy around these t-shirts has taken on "iconic status"? That sounds rather close to synthesis. Ideally, we'd need a source that says specifically that 'Boys are stupid' has had any importance in debates around gender. Without that, we're just synthesising. —Tom Morris (talk) 23:59, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
I have just reviewed a revision that linked to separatist feminism, and havent found grounds to reject it. Consider it a WP:BOLD addition, as I am personally unsure of how applicable it would be. -- Nbound (talk) 09:03, 30 May 2013 (UTC)
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