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1/ anyone know what's going on with the distinctive "18 speed gearbox" type noise that comes out of the drive mechanics as the train pulls away and comes to a halt? i can't figure out if it's actually some kind of heavy duty multi-ratio gearbox that's been fitted (rare on trains as far as i know, but certainly useful for the hard acceleration they do and dragging the things up over the lickeys) or some clever electronic jiggery pokery. I was pre-teen at the time these units were brought into service but i remember some rather vague news story on their arrival saying something like the series vs parallel circuit arrangements of the motors were rapidly changeable for extra power "like gears in a car" or something.... (i'm no electric motor whiz, i'm afraid, though i aim to be someday - my car really needs hybridisation on the ghetto-cheap)
2/ what's this "infamous 1064 day gap in train orders"? it's not infamous enough for joe schlub like myself to know what the heck context is being referenced so please either link it, or provide some inline exposition. cheers
3/ where's the CCTV? all I see are *LCD* TV screens - with overly powerful speakers - that show nothing but crap programs, the more annoying flavour of local news, and both overly earnest advertisements and advocations to spend a lot of money entering SMS-based competitions... the last two types of content, we had originally been promised would not appear. maybe if they HAD invested in CCTV instead the train would be a safer and more preferred way to travel.
-mp — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.36.128.25 (talk) 22:03, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
Alterations being made to the Northern route table to reflect the new timetable —Preceding unsigned comment added by Noddingdonkey142 (talk • contribs) 22:07, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
I have some experiance of Class 323 units, so will try to explain what's going on. The units have a fixed final drive gear ratio. The characteristic ‘gear change’ sound is produced by the traction motors - four on each cab vehicle. The motors are powered by a three phase AC supply provided by an electronic inverter. The motor torque in traction and braking is controlled by varying the inverter output voltage and frequency relative to the train speed.
The inverter synthesises the three phase AC supply from a DC source by applying complex switching patterns to six Gate Turn Off Thyristors (GTOs). Thirteen different switching patterns are used in braking, twelve in traction. It’s the changes in switching pattern that give the ‘gear change’ effect. The distinct tone change about half way through the speed range is probably caused by the change from sine wave to square wave modulation (Modulation is the mathematical method used to create the switching pattern).
Modern AC traction systems, like those used on the Pendolino, use Insulated Gate Bi-polar Transistors (IGBTs) as the inverter switching device. IGBTs switch at much higher frequencies than GTOs, so the gear change effect is less noticeable. Thyristortwister (talk) 15:24, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
The AC output from the inverter doesn't change in irregular steps, it changes in linearly to achieve a controlled slip frequency (more slip = more motor current = more torque). It's the GTO switching pattern used to synthesise the AC waveform that changes in steps. On class 323, 13 pulse patterns are used to synthesise the required frequency range. Change from one switching pattern to the next occurs at predetermined inverter frequencies.Thyristortwister (talk) 22:49, 3 March 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thyristortwister (talk • contribs) 22:46, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
1.The article makes reference to Hunslet collapsing. Perhaps this needs to be re-written as to the best of my knowledge, Hunslet was taken over by other manufactures and now trades under a different name. 60.241.240.218 (talk) 04:58, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
2. Is there any difference between Hunslet TPL and Hunslet Engine Co.? The TPL link goes to the Leeds Industrial company page, which doesn't mention the 323s, and the plaques on the emus say as they were birmingham built. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.229.151.140 (talk) 16:53, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
The official Government plan is now that Northern will now receive all of London Midland's 323s. 94.192.241.209 (talk) 13:29, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
4) Northernrailwaysfan: On British Rail Class 323, the article has multiple issues. Here are the issues: The article or section appears to be slanted to towards recent effects, the article needs additional citations for verification. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Northernrailwaysfan (talk • contribs) 15:33, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
Only a minor thing, but I'm sure the class 310s were pressed into service in the early days of the cross-city line's electrification, as well as some of the old DMUs? In fact the old slam-door, continuous-whine electrics seemed far more common than the diesels, as the 323s were introduced and gradually overcame their reliability issues. Rode that line almost daily in the early/mid 90s and must only have been on a diesel once or twice, but slammed many doors before it all became push-button... 193.63.174.10 (talk) 10:20, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
Hi. Just to let you know, the Commons category for Class 323s is now completely sorted by operator and livery. -mattbuck (Talk) 01:55, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
How many units are going to Northern? Both websites referenced say all 26, but it has been listed in the article as 17 until reverted earlier today. Also, if 17 is the correct number, are the remaining 9 transferring to ScotRail? Or is this just unsourced speculation? Cheers, PinkPanda272 (talk) 17:53, 2 December 2019 (UTC)
The current image on this page shows a 323 in version of the Northern livery which is no longer the standard. With this in mind I replaced it with this image which is more representative of what these units currently look like. In addition, on 13th June 2020 an additional reference was added for the Ardwick derailment mentioned in Accidents and Incidents.
On 5th July, both of these fairly reasonably looking edits were reverted in a short space of time by unregistered user 2a00:23c5:882:6101:55c9:c343:3019:5b12 with no edit reason provided - can anyone see why?
Python megapixel (talk) 13:10, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
Images on this page could do with improvement: the title image is fine but the interior image isn't brilliant quality. Also the only represented interior/exterior branding is Serco-Abellio Northern, London Midland and West Midlands Railway, with the notable absence of interior or exterior photos of the current Northern branding. Any discussion/suggestion on how to improve this situation would be welcome.
Python megapixel (talk) 16:38, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
The image of the interior of a 323 should be changed from the serco-abello refurbished interior to the interior of a refurbished Northern class 323.
As for the rest of the photos we need at least one photo of a 323 in Northern livery, don’t really mind which photo we change but one photo must be changed.
Can we also agree that once the 323’s have left West Midlands Trains we will replace all the images of the 323’s in West Midlands livery to ones in Northern livery.
We should have changed the image of the interior of a 323 months ago once we had photos of the new refurbished interior of the class 323. Maurice Oly (talk) 18:00, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
@pythonmegapixal I have seen the image you uploaded and I think the image is good, half a refurbished carriage is better than what we have now.
I get that the new interior is hard to get a good photo of due to the colour but that photo will do, if later anybody comes along with a long shot of a refurbished carriage then they can feel free to upload it, but again I’m happy with your photo. Maurice Oly (talk) 19:07, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
@Pythonmegapixel: sorry for not pinging you the right way in my message, this is my first time pinging someone on here. Maurice Oly (talk) 19:15, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
@Python megapixel: Hoping this works, please upload/link your photo onto the page, many thanks. Maurice Oly (talk) 19:18, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
@Python megapixel: Many thanks. Maurice Oly (talk) 20:07, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
Update:
Under “service history” can the image of a 323 in London Midland City livery be removed and replaced with an updated image of a 323 in ether WMT or Northern livery please as the image is outdated due to london midland no longer existing.
Many Thanks. Maurice Oly (talk) 21:58, 14 August 2020 (UTC)
@SK2242: I know it’s called “history” but I just feel that maybe a more up to date image might be nice is all.
But if the other editors think it’s best to leave the image as is then I’m fine with that. Maurice Oly (talk) 00:01, 15 August 2020 (UTC)
I have now updated the interior image, I hope it is to everyone’s liking. Maurice Oly (talk) 23:24, 26 September 2020 (UTC)
I have updated the future section a few times just get the wording right, and have updated some grammar. Maurice Oly (talk) 01:00, 7 September 2020 (UTC)
G-13114 (talk · contribs) and Maurice Oly (talk · contribs), do you have a reliable source that states that Class 323s entered service in 1992? SK2242 (talk) 00:35, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
While I don’t have one yet, I sure I can find one. To please everyone for now let’s leave it as 1992-present and put the Citation needed tag next to it for now.
As soon as I have a source I will put it there.
I do have some hunslet TPL marketing material from 1992 but sadly It only hints that the 323s may have already entered service by 1992. Maurice Oly (talk) 00:41, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
Got one.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?fbclid=IwAR3MPhRP7QNFdcOo-iHMSo_EgsNHViXQZQbWiVhs5Ix5ddMDeNP9zcw0mUA&feature=youtu.be&v=F5Obzz13WCA Maurice Oly (talk) 00:54, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
Sorry I had not watched that video before putting it as source, it sates the class entered service in 1994 which is when the class entered full service not when they first entered service.
I seen 1992 on this page before I’ve been told 1993 once.
I’m removing that link in case I get any more infomation, which could happen if by 24 hours later I have not received further information than I will update the page to say 1994 with that link as source. Maurice Oly (talk) 01:18, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
Error in Template:Reply to: Username not given. SK2242 I can confirm it was 1994 when the 323s entered service.
1992 was most likey when the class 323 was on test and when the safety issues with the class were found.
Would this youtube count? it’s a drivers eye view video from 1995 which does state that the class 323s entered service in 1994.
https://youtube/F5Obzz13WCA Maurice Oly (talk) 09:57, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
@SK2242: I can confirm it was 1994 when the 323s entered service.
1992 was most likey when the class 323 was on test and when the safety issues with the class were found.
Would this youtube count? it’s a drivers eye view video from 1995 which does state that the class 323s entered service in 1994.
https://youtube/F5Obzz13WCA Maurice Oly (talk) 09:57, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
@SK2242: I can confirm it was 1994 when the 323s entered service.
1992 was most likey when the class 323 was on test and when the safety issues with the class were found.
Would this youtube count? it’s a drivers eye view video from 1995 which does state that the class 323s entered service in 1994.
https://youtube/F5Obzz13WCA Maurice Oly (talk) 09:58, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
@SK2242: I can confirm it was 1994 when the 323s entered service.
1992 was most likey when the class 323 was on test and when the safety issues with the class were found.
Would this youtube count? it’s a drivers eye view video from 1995 which does state that the class 323s entered service in 1994.
https://youtube/F5Obzz13WCA Maurice Oly (talk) 09:58, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
Sorry for the failed pings, I’m not really good with this part of wikiapeada. Maurice Oly (talk) 09:59, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
Ok I’ve found what I think made edditors think 1992 was the date the class entered service.
It’s outdated though and so can’t be used as a reference.
https://web.archive.org/web/20071014115224/http://www.therailwaycentre.com/Recognition%20Tech%20Data%20EMU/EMU_323.html Maurice Oly (talk) 10:06, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
Reference 4 on this page is out of date and is factly wrong in regards to the date in which the 323s entered service.
Reference 4 links to a website that states the 323s entered service in 1992 which has now been proven to be false and that the 323s entered service in 1994.
It also did not take into account the 5 fold down seats when talking about capacity It stated that the 323s had seating capacity of 284 which is not true I put the correct figure of 289 in a while back.
Can we please find a more reliable source for reference 4, a reference that gives the seating capacity for the refurbished units would be preferred. Maurice Oly (talk) 04:40, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
@RedRose64: Ok thanks for replying to me with that, I shall just create a new reference with the book to cover the new seating capacity as the book covers that. Maurice Oly (talk) 00:26, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
@Redrose64: sorry did not put your name in right when I pinged you. Maurice Oly (talk) 00:32, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
Erm somebody help please, I tried to add the new reference when updating the seating capacity and well it didn’t work very well and I have no idea how to fix this I’ve tried everything I could understand how to do anyway. Maurice Oly (talk) 01:24, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
Ok so can we please find a source to replace reference 4 please as what we have for reference 4 contradicts the start date for the 323s.
If somebody was to go to the website we have as reference 4 for information they would see on that website that the 323s entered service in 1992 which is wrong as I have said before.
I wish to know other editors input on what to do with reference 4. Maurice Oly (talk) 22:32, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
So I have found photos of the class 323 from when they had TVs on board.
Could we maybe use this site as a source for that?
https://ukrailwaypics.smugmug.com/Daybyday/2005/2005-03-25-Birmingham-Area/i-g2ZVZNJ/A Maurice Oly (talk) 20:21, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
So I was reading though reference 2 the class 323 drivers manual and on page 43 it lists safety systems on that page the manual says of AWS “AWSIS Automatic warning system (now known as TPWSIS)”
However on page 50 there is a table which talks about a AWS isolation Switch but I judging but is on page 43 it seems like that switch may now be used for isolating TWPS.
So should we keep AWS as a listed safety system in the infobox or not? Maurice Oly (talk) 04:48, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
@Nightfury: thanks for the response, I’ll leave AWS as a safety system. Maurice Oly (talk) 17:59, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
As can be seen I have removed reference 3 from the infobox as reference 3 is from 1994 and Allerton TMD was closed until 2012 thus reference 3 can’t back up that the Class 323 is allocated to Allerton TMD.
I have a feeling that reference 3 states the Class 323 is allocated to Longsight Electric TMD not Allerton TMD simply due to Longsight TMD being in Manchester and open in 1994.
The link below backs up that Allerton TMD did not re-open until 2012: https://web.archive.org/web/20171225092039/https://www.railengineer.uk/2012/06/27/allerton-reborn/
Sorry the link is from archive.org but the orignal link is dead so I had to use an archived link.
Please can we find a reffrence that backs up that the Class 323 is allocated to both Soho TMD and Allerton TMD. Maurice Oly (talk) 13:12, 10 June 2021 (UTC)
The current image is terrible! I've been trying to change it with much better images but keeps on being reverted back to this grainy terrible image! I don't want to start an edit war but it is highly annoying when a much improved image gets changed by something far worse. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/18/323210_AST.jpg This is, in my opinion, a much better image and is much clearer and less grainy. Vanmanyo (talk) 12:13, 14 February 2024 (UTC)