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@Tryptofish:, @DrChrissy: Now I understand the objection to the language:
explained in this edit. I think the phrase "most usual" meant that this was where the abuse most usually occurred, rather than that most animals on farms, science labs and in entertainment suffer and/or are abused, which would need strong RS. This revised statement:
is an understatement compared to source 1's:
I have not been able to review the other two RS's. DrChrissy, can you provide more quotes like the above? In the meantime, I suggest changing the sentence to say:
or something like this. --David Tornheim (talk) 21:23, 9 July 2016 (UTC)
There was almost an edit conflict here and I have taken the liberty of removing my own section heading as my comment below is relevant to the thread David opened.
@Tryptofish: and others. Just to clear up a potential minor misunderstanding, my edit about denialism of pain and suffering is intended to be applicable to the population as a whole, not just farmers, animal researchers and those using animals for entertainment. I believe the sources I used also had this in mind. If the language is unclear, perhaps we can clarify. DrChrissy (talk) 21:27, 9 July 2016 (UTC)
The five tactics of denialism were popularized on the blog of the Hoofnagle brothers, then called Denialism.com. But it cannot be claimed (as Mark Hoofnagle did in the blog entry reproduced in The Guardian on 11 March 2009) that Denialism.com "have identified five routine tactics that should set your pseudo-science alarm bells ringing."
The five tactics were devised and posted by an anonymous blog writer, Rev. Dr., on September 19, 2006 in Give Up Blog, who called them "5 features common to [the denialist's] argument and most generalizeable to the phenomenon of denialism," proposing "Conspiracy, Selectivity, The Fake Expert, Impossible Expectations, and Metaphor." On March 18, 2008, Denialism.com reproduced a slightly adapted version of the Give Up post, with full acknowledgment of the original source ("Adapted from Give Up Blog's post with permission").
The first publication of these five tactics in what Wikipedia considers a reliable source was the January 2009 paper by Diethelm & McKee, published in peer reviewed European Journal of Public Health. The Hooofnagle brothers and Diethelm & McKee can be credited for communicating and disseminating the information about the five tactics, but their creation should be attributed to their real author, anonymous blog writer Rev. Dr.
Dessources (talk) 21:50, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
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Both MOS:NOTSEEALSO and MOS:OVERLINK support not having unnecessary links in the 'see also' section. Wikipedia articles are overloaded with links as it is, making reading difficult. In this case, the sub-topics are clearly laid out in the body, so what is the value of having them in the 'see also' section? Andrew Z. Colvin • Talk 19:42, 30 September 2017 (UTC)
Despite "and the term climate change denialist is applied to people who argue against the scientific consensus that the global warming of planet Earth is a real and occurring event primarily caused by human activity.[5] " being in the body of the article, it was proven by found (thought destroyed) messages that the "scientist" who originally "found" evidence climate change faked the data because the actual evidence found didn't support what he or she wanted to see. Further down, it again comes across as pushing a "proven" agenda which hasn't been proven for sure one way or the other by "have published articles stating corporations are funding" when it should read (my emphasis) "have published articles CLAIMING corporations are funding" and so on.
And the Evolution Theory is still just that, unless there are somehow eye witness accounts someone has been holding back. It is taught with the same fervor and blind belief that is attributed to religious creationism belief. This is evident by the use of the term "creation myth" despite the facts that many religions other than Christianity have in their religious teachings a massive catastrophic event happening at some point in the past. Even the evolution "religious" zealots agree that this happened, otherwise what was it that wiped out the dinosaurs? I am not claiming 100% creationism has been proven to be correct either, just give it the same credence that the religion of the belief in Evolution has what is has, the fact that BOTH are still just THEORIES.
That, and the supposed facts that evolution occurred based on scientific evidence is suspect when the evidence could also be interpretted to support creationism, it is all about perception of the person studying the data. If they are predisposed to believe one thing over another, that evidence will most likely appear to "support" their view point while actually doing nothing of the sort. 32.212.104.223 (talk) 03:44, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
What!? Evolution is not a theory my dude! It's been proven through common ancestry (similar bones, shared traits), there is geographical stratification(bones of animals which are in a formal stage of evolution), vestigial traits (e.g. nippes in male humans), and observed changes in our environment - for example changes in moth populations in Britain. — Preceding unsigned comment added by CommunismandEquality (talk • contribs) 16:50, 2 January 2019 (UTC)
Many people deny many things, but their denial does not necessarily take the shape of denialism, which is the organization of denial making heavy use, in a systematic way, of the five tactics described in the article. The denial of animal pain and suffering described in the section, although of interest, is misplaced here and provides a misleading illustration of the denialism phenomenon. The kind of denial described has more to do with cognitive denial or sociological denial, found for instance in cognitive dissonance, such as the denial described by Festinger in When prophecy fails fails. The denial of animal pain and suffering lacks the key features of denialism: there is no conspiracy theory (such as "people falsely pretend that animals suffer simply because such a claim serves the vested interest of big multinational corporations"); no fake experts ("such Nobel prize winner has said that animals do not suffer"); no selectivity (retaining from the scientific literature the odd articles proving that animals do not suffer); no moving of the goal post ("you think you have shown that animals suffer, but your method of measurement was not good enough"); etc. No animal pain denialist website. Clearly, this section is our of place here. I'm proposing to delete it. It could be moved to article Pain in animals or made into an article in its own right.
Dessources (talk) 00:40, 19 July 2016 (UTC)
I think the whole section is misguided. Most people dont deny that animals we eat for meat can feel pain and suffering. Some including myself just dont care to stop eating meat even if it causes suffering. 74.96.75.234 (talk) 03:55, 22 July 2018 (UTC) It's not denialism to be skeptical about the perception of pain in a wide variety of animals. Scientists are not supposed to anthropomorphize animals when observing their behavior. An adverse reaction to a stimulus could be many things and necessarily pain. We simply do not know with certainty if animals without a neocortex can feel pain. This isn't denialism but rather deduction by observation. Xanikk999 (talk) 05:35, 17 February 2019 (UTC) I personally do not deny that mammals can all probably feel pain but I don't believe that the choice to eat meat is necessarily because of denial of pain. I eat meat even though I know animals suffer in factory farming simply because I like the taste of meat. It's nothing more complicated than that. Xanikk999 (talk) 05:37, 17 February 2019 (UTC)
I have a small quibble wrt the Flat Earth section. It starts: "The superseded belief that the Earth is flat". When was that belief "superseded"? Was it ever even seriously held in the modern era, beyond cranks? Does it matter? I don't think it does. That the Earth is 'round' has been known (one way or another) for millennia, so why even bother to describe this as a superseded belief? Indeed, I thought Flat Earthism was a relatively modern crackpot notion. I'd drop the description. What do others think? 31.125.76.2 (talk) 16:03, 21 December 2019 (UTC)
Sex denialism is the idea the idea that Sex is assigned at birth rather than by the gametes produced by an organism.[1] This is commonly cited by the Transgender community to push the idea that they have been wrongly assigned at birth and that it is not a form of mental illness known as Gender Dysphoria.
This includes the idea that biological men can have their menstruation cycles.[2] Which is false as oestrogen and progesterone (produced by the ovaries which biological men do not have) are the key hormones responsible for mentruation. [3] --Buster672 (talk) 14:55, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
References
There is a hatnote "For denialism of historical events, see Historical negationism." This would seem to suggest that such information is treated elsewhere, and that this article is about the principle of denialism. But this article then has in its index some instances of historical negation (but only two out of very many that could be listed) with pitifully little discussion of the issue.
If historical denialism is meant to be elsewhere, then those sections should be removed and this article should probably have a more specific title; if not, that section is woefully under-informative, and the hatnote should be removed. Kevin McE (talk) 14:22, 17 November 2020 (UTC)