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A couple of days ago, searching with Google, I found that Miroslav Demko is no "historian, living in Switzerland", as our friend "Wizzard" put it, but "member-musicologist" of a rather nationalistic "Informal Economic Forum - Economic Club" ("Hospodársky klub") at Bratislava, where on January 26, 2006, he gave a lecture on "Patriotism from the history". It is this club that wants to have Liszt regarded as Slovak. Among the club's aims there is the astonishing following one:
An annual report for the period September 28, 2004 - January 26, 2006, shows that the club had had no success. It is to be read:
Still in the newest entry (of February 21, 2008) there are complaints about
Hence the theory of Liszt's Slovakian origin is even in Slovakia regarded as nonsense.
During the second decade of 2005, Demko's "findings" were presented to some international personalities. In connection with this he wrote a German brochure about his views. (35 pages) However, neither with this brochure, nor with his prior book in French (107 pages, can be purchased via Internet, the price is falling) Demko found the least resonance in scholarly papers. In fact, with this German brochure Demko's international career as writer apparently ended. I couldn't find any further publication of him.
Working through the page of the "Hospodársky klub" leads to the impression that the relations between Slovakia and Hungary must be of highly problematic kind. Besides, there are conflicts with the Hungarian minority in Slovakia. From the perspective of the "Hospodársky klub" these problems are due to "biased, wrong" information from abroad. Thus the club tries to correct such "wrong views". Spreading the idea of the Slovakian Liszt is a part of this. There is much resemblance betwen their attempts of renaming Liszt as "František" and Nazi attempts of renaming Chopin as "Friedrich" and posing him as Arian.85.22.5.160 (talk) 09:20, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
I've reviewed this article as part of the Composers project review of its B-class articles. This article is of generally good quality (talk page discussion aside), with clear potential to eventually become a Feature Article. While I am hardly expert on the factual details of Liszt's life and reputation, it seems to present a fairly good picture of his life. The section discussing his reputation and legacy is rightfully tagged for expansion -- there is no 20th-century appreciation, to name an obvious hole. I've made more detailed comments (including suggestions on reducing the article's size) on the comments page; questions and comments should be left here or on my talk page. Magic♪piano 17:03, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
Anyone care to translate the German phrase in this paragraph? I feel that a Google translate may not work well here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Slapazoid (talk • contribs) 02:47, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
Just to say it would be great if people would help out on the Life of Franz Liszt article. It does need some sections expanded like Liszt in Geneva, Meets Princess von Sayn-Wittgenstein, Failed Marriage Attempt and Threefold life, as well as there been suggestions for new sections. Not much seems to happen to this article, and I've done what I can, so please do help edit Life of Franz Liszt. I think its a vital part of Franz Liszt on Wikipedia. Ross Rhodes (T C) Sign! 16:12, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
Just to say, if you wish to make major contributions to Life of Franz Liszt, please read the third comment on the discussion page. Where I have added a link showing much information needed for that article. Ross Rhodes (T C) Sign! 20:38, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
There is a problem with regard to the spelling of the Hungarian version of Liszt's first name. In the present introduction it is "Ferenc", which is in accordance with the spelling as used by some Hungarian authors of our days. However, in Liszt's Hungarian passport of 1874, as reproduced in: Óváry, Joséf: Ferenc Liszt, Budapest 2003, p.29, the spelling is "Ferencz" instead. On p.28 of Óváry's book there is even a facsimile of a short musical example, signed by Liszt himself as "Liszt Ferencz". At the door at Liszt's apartment at the Royal Academy at Budapest there was a table, as reproduced in: Hamburger, Klara (ed.): Franz Liszt, Beiträge von ungarischen Autoren, Budapest 1984, between p.192 and 193. The first part of the inscription is in Hungarian and the second part in German. In the German part Liszt's name is "Franz Liszt", and in the Hungarian part "Liszt Ferencz". A further example is a caricature of 1876 on the same page. It shows Liszt as "Szt. Liszt Ferencz" ("St. Franz Liszt"), with a long queue of small children in front of him. Below the caricature there is a (somewhat modified) quotation from the Holy Bible: "Engedjétek hozzám jönni a csodagyermekeket, mert övék a jövő zenéjének orzáka." ("Let the tot prodigies come to me, for the kingdom of the music of the future will be theirs.") From my impression, thus the spelling "Ferencz" seems to be a better choice than "Ferenc".85.22.3.32 (talk) 10:34, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
This is a matter of verifiability and common English usage today. Google Books (English hits as of January 2009):
Compare the two numbers. It is encyclopedic though to mention the "Ferencz Liszt" version appeared in his passport/was used in Hungary as the common Hungarian spelling of the name at that time. Please add the references too. Squash Racket (talk) 05:03, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
And Britannica uses "Ferenc Liszt"... The Liszt Ferenc Society and the Liszt Ferenc Memorial Museum bear these names for a reason.
There are about three times more English hits for the modern version. I repeat: feel free to add it as an archaic version used in Hungary at the time with references. But I don't want to argue anymore, I hope another editor will answer you, if you still have questions. Squash Racket (talk) 18:32, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
I've created two articles about his compositions, Gnomenreigen and Waldesrauschen. It seems like articles about Liszt's compositions are extremely scarce, so I'll try and create some more. -download ׀ sign! 23:26, 4 May 2009 (UTC) Franz Liszt is very beautiful! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.203.22.16 (talk) 03:28, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
Due to your incredibly strong dependency on the fabulous ideas of Alan Walker, whom as single author you like to adress as "the vast majority of published scholarly literatur about Liszt", there is a huge number of errors and mistakes in your article. In other cases you are just reproducing weasel terms which nobody can possibly verify. For the purpose of giving some examples, I'll take a critical look at the article's introduction and give some comments to some of your claims.
Liszt received the rank as "Ritter Franz von Liszt" with diploma of October, 30, 1859, after it had been excluded that he had Hungarian forbears of nobility rank. For this purpose officials had searched in archives. They had found several "Liszts" who however had all been criminals. It may have been this reason for which Liszt didn't like to take one of them as ancestor. He accepted that no Hungarian forbears existed and was then nominated as Ritter Franz von Liszt. At this moment at least he was no Hungarian, but an Austrian nobleman.
On March 2, 1867 (not 1865), the rank was transferred to Eduard Liszt, who on January 31, 1817, had been born as youngest child of Liszt's grandfather Georg Adam List. Also Eduard Liszt was of Austrian nationality. He received the rank as "Ritter von Liszt" with diploma of May 4, 1867. A detailed account of the affair can be found in: Békefi, Ernö: Franz Liszt. Seine Abstammung - seine Familie, in: Hamburger, Klara (ed.): Beiträge von ungarischen Autoren, Budapest 1978, p.28f. As opposite to Alan Walker (your sole source), Hamburger is one of the leading Hungarian Liszt scholars of newer time.
In the second paragraph you had better done mentioning that Liszt was in every aspect, also as virtuoso, a very controversially disputed artist. During the times of his tours he was frequently criticized for his eccentric playing style, the quantities of wrong keys he hit, his arrogant attitude towards his audience and much more of similar kind. Many of the contemporaries, especially those who were themselves artists, preferred Thalberg. Besides, your second sentence is full of weasel terms. Between Liszt's playing at his concerts and piano playing of today there is a distance of more than 160 years. Nobody can possibly still listen to his playing. A comparison of Liszt's playing with that of later virtuosos is therefore impossible. After this it doesn't make any sense claiming that Liszt could be regarded as "greatest pianist of all time". A statement of such kind, at best a kind of a quasi religious belief, has nothing to do with encyclopedia style. The same applies to the claim of Liszt's influence on "the modern development of the art" of conducting. As opposite to R. Wagner and Hans von Bülow, Liszt was also in this respect a controversially disputed figure. Many of the contemporaries were convinced that he had as conductor nearly no skills at all. After this your claim of Liszt's so-called influence is lacking credibility. In any case it can't be verified.
While it is true that Wagner was supported by Liszt, he did not "as a benefactor" support Hector Berlioz, Camille Saint-Saëns, Edvard Grieg and Alexander Borodin. (Yes, I know, the famous A. Walker likes to claim such things.) He neither "invented" the Symphonic Poem. Instead, he composed several Overtures as generations of composers had done it before him. Since February 1854 he called them "Symphonic Poem", a term which he had overtaken from Wagner. Also the "concept of thematic transformation" was nothing new in Liszt's time. While from Liszt's own perspective the body of his sacral works should have been the most important part of his oeuvre these works don't even exist in your view. Also the huge masses of transcriptions and fantasies on popular melodies (among them the Hungarian Rhapsodies) are totally absent, and this in spite of the fact that Liszt is famous especially for these works. Liszt'S favorite genre of piano music was fashionable salon music, by the way. Whether Liszt's Symphonic Poems are to be regarded as "most notable" works (another weasel term) or just as examples for forgotten music like the symphonic works of Carl Reinecke might be a matter of taste. Today, with very few exceptions, they are nearly never performed.78.94.161.154 (talk) 08:54, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
I have created a new article on Lisztomania (the old one had to do with the movie and not the condition). I thought Liszt fans would want to check it out and help make it better. Remember (talk) 14:28, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
See Talk:Anna Liszt#Merge proposal for discussion about doing away with the separate article on his mother. -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 17:54, 28 July 2010 (UTC)
Today's 12 edits 16 edits by DjKrisz (talk · contribs) introduced two poorly formatted and poorly sourced paragraphs which seem to be overly lengthy verbatim quotes. I suggest to revert to the previous version. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 12:28, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
An anonymous editor left the following comment at WP:Village pump (proposals) today. Since it really belongs here, I've moved it. —C.Fred (talk) 15:03, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
Sources:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Hungary-to-rename-main-apf-3998611319.html?x=0
http://www.breakingnewseurope.eu/?p=28626
Arpadapo (talk) 23:45, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
A sober assessment of Liszt's national origin must take into account the research which consistently establishes his Austro-German ethnicity.
Liszt's ethnic origins have been somewhat obscured by his own preferred identification as a Hungarian, which came from his father Adam Liszt who was apparently the first generation to spell the surname phonetically the Hungarian way instead ot the original German way, List. Some confusion may have arisen from the changing borders--Raiding was western Hungary at the time of Liszt's birth, 1811, but was transferred to the Austrian state of Burgenland after World War 1.[1][2]
He was of slovak ethnicity, and the mother tongue was slovak, according to Miroslav Demko. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.227.100.129 (talk) 19:56, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
Don't want to necromance, but seriously guys, this issue has been beaten to death time and time again. I remember taking part in this same discussion several months ago. Many people, who have extensive knowledge in the field (including one that I have great respect for, Antandrus) have shared their valuable input. It was established then and it remains now that Liszt is Hungarian by nationality and by ethnicity. This is the way it has always been and this is the way it should always be (the fact that nobles and aristocrats were educated in German does not necessarily make them such). Anything else is agenda pushing.
If you still have any doubts or an acute memory lapse (for some, at least) about this, I strongly suggest you take a look at the archive of this page. aNubiSIII (T / C) 04:56, 13 October 2009 (UTC))
Actually: What sources agree, ergo hard facts, is that the first known of Liszts forefathers was Sebestyén/Sebastian. Everything else is guessing and/or wanting on ethnical grounds. These ethnical claims are germanic, magyaric and slavic. All are biased and driven by nationalist. The family name Liszt could be either of germanic, magyaric and slavic origin. That Sebastians father immigrated to Hungary is taken from the air. It is possible that the Liszts had german origins, but there had been Liszt i Sopron already in the early 15th century. Please read István Csekey! Even Walker should read him. There had also been Lists in Zagreb in the 16th century. Zagreb was within the Hungarian Kingdom but it was only populated to about 5 % magyars and 5 % germans together. List means leaf in some slavic. It means flour in hungarian. Why not make DNA test? Liszt looks mongoloid in some Daguerrotypes. In Sopron area Petcheneg tribes settled in the time of Árpáds conquest of the future kingdom. I mean, it is still an open question what ethnic background Liszt actually had. Everything indicates a mixed magyar (original hungarians), germanic and slavic origin, but this cant be proved either. László of Stockholm, of mixed hungarian origins. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.177.141.236 (talk) 12:32, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
There aren't original proofs in the official letters for his father's German origin in his county and his city. Your letters are not contemporary. Perhabs this late letter refered for his mother's origin. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.2.120.76 (talk) 10:32, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
In the centenary of Liszt's birth, Hungarians
waited for material proofs (contemporary documents)
about the existence of sebastian List, but the
austrians/germans hadn't original documents about
Sebastian List. Therefore it remained fictitious
person. Old foreign biographies of Liszt didn't
mentioned these lineage. It was only Hitler's
invention. Shameful that Hitler's fantasy & culture-
politics survived many decades after WW2 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.0.114.153 (talk) 10:21, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
You've given me a lot of pleasure, and you keep on giving. -- Jack of Oz [your turn] 20:40, 21 October 2011 (UTC)
(it's already 22 Oct where I am)
You know, huge chunks of this article are still missing cites and seem to be Original Research (opinons) - I have the Watson book and the New Grove, but the Walker books and others are at the University Library and not convenient for me - I do hope this gets cleaned up at some point. - HammerFilmFan 74.255.98.162 (talk) 17:13, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
I think a section on the organ music would be appropriate, since it's currently not covered at all, and is indeed significant in the 19th century organ literature. HammerFilmFan, I see you've tried to start one here. In my opinion it should be less about quality or greatness but more factual, to start. If you like I could draft a paragraph from the Grove article and you could add something from your reference. (I have to disappear for the day so it won't be right away.) Antandrus (talk) 15:49, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
Hey guys. I think it's about time to do something with the Legacy section of this page. At this point, it's overly long, and contains more information than is needed in a Wikipedia article. Any ideas for this? 129.128.221.64 (talk) 21:28, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
A year and a half and nothing in this section has changed... I may have to be the one to do it. Any suggestions? 68.149.183.10 (talk) 05:00, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
Berlioz indeed mentioned those minor inconsistencies, but his account was hardly critical. If you want to demonstrate Liszt's "extravagant liberties," then this would be a good place to mention a far more pretentious malfeasance: A certain concert performance in 1835 featuring an orchestral adaptation of the adagio sostenuto. Although he properly presented the next two movements at the bench, there can be no absolution for such an indignant arrangement. 128.111.95.96 (talk) 23:57, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
This article has improved considerably since I edited the "Life" section some time back. There are still sections that need in-line citations but it would be good otherwise to put the article through Peer Review to see what further improvements could be made to eventually make this a Featured Article. My thoughts: Wouldn't it be nice to have this article as TFA on Liszt's birthday in 2011, which would be his bicentennial? Jonyungk (talk) 17:08, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
Currently, the article does not mention many of Liszt's "firsts" - whether one is a great admirer of his music, dismissive of his work, or finds a middle ground of enjoying his better pieces and being ambivalent about his music that may seem to be mere 'flash,' (and of course, our personal opinions are completely irrelevant - Wiki is about verifiability, not "truth"), we have to acknowledge that the vast majority of critical opinion concludes:
-some examples of scholarly sources for these conclusions are THE LIFE AND WORKS OF FRANZ LISZT by Jeremy Siepmann, Derek Watson's LISZT, and the Engel/Siegmeister article in THE NEW MUSIC LOVER'S HANDBOOK; the Walker books are inconveniently some 40 miles away at the university library and I won't be going that way for some weeks, but those with immediate access to them can find cites within them that also reflect the same things-
Remember, that despite the undoubted braggadocio of his early years, in his later life Liszt was (like many other composers) doubtful of his musical accomplishments even to the point of wishing that his works were withdrawn from public performance, as being misunderstood or presented in too grandiose a manner. Taking this into account should resolve the personal editorial feelings of both the "Brahmsians" and fans of the "New German School" that contribute to Wikipedia in acknowledging his legacy in the article and prevent the improper edit-wars against Reliable Sources. After contributing to and editing hundreds of articles on Wiki as far back as 2005 from three different continents (Australia, England and the U.S.A. - each under a different ID respectively due to breaks in between relocating due to my career,) I've become as tired of that behavior as I'm sure most of you have. Other RS's [avoiding cranks and personal blogs] that contradict the majority opinion are of course desired and should be cited to show the minority scholarly view - all to the betterment of the article.
I can write up a draft for this paragraph. HammerFilmFan (talk) 17:42, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
It appears that a statement at the beginning of the entry on Liszt is not correct. Please correct the statement if, after your investigations, you discover that the statement is in fact false because you are potentially misleading music students.
'Some of his most notable contributions were the invention of the symphonic poem, developing the concept of thematic transformation as part of his experiments in musical form and making radical departures in harmony.'
'Liszt was regarded by many as the supreme piano virtuoso of the 19th century, but he was also active as conductor, teacher, and author...his creative imagination, despising routine, gave birth to some of the most daring and progressive compositions of the era...Liszt's vast musical output traverses virtually every musical genre...his works abound with formal and harmonic innovations - many of them anticipating 20th century - but ironically THE OFT REPEATED STATEMENT THAT HE 'INVENTED' THE SYMPHONIC POEM DOES NOT SURVIVE SCRUTINY (he initially attached the title to piece that he himself had previously called concert overtures), NOR DOES THE IDEA THAT 'THEMATIC METAMORPHOSIS', A PROMINENT FEATURE OF SO MUCH OF HIS OUTPUT, REPRESENTS ANYTHING MORE NOVEL THAN THE PRINCIPLE OF THEMATIC VARIATION FOUND IN MUSIC FROM TIME IMMEMORIAL.'
The second quote is taken from the 2002 Oxford Companion to Music edited by Alison Latham, page 698 (the entry on Franz Liszt). This book is in the bibliography of your (the wikipedia) entry so I don't know how this was overlooked. Please correct it thank you.
Kind regards,
matt — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.154.152.59 (talk) 21:31, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
Wow, so I've been reading all the back-and-forth on this page and I see I would be a fool to jump into it...but here goes. In the section "Early Life," all the ranting about clearly establishing his Hungarian nationality seems very out of place. It jumps from his birth to his later life to concerts he gave at other times all willy-nilly. From the perspective of a politically neutral reader, it's just in a terribly confusing style. Wouldn't it be better to take all the national stuff out of that section entirely and maybe create a separate sub-section to address the issue of his ethnicity and nationality? Obviously his Hungarian patriotism will be relevant in later sections, but why muddle up the section on his childhood with it? It's just bad writing, in the opinion of this humble ink-stained wretch. Florestanová (talk) 16:50, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
This immigration story is German speculation. There aren't contemporary papers to prove his father's German origin. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.2.120.76 (talk) 10:35, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
How is a source from 1846, provided to you in the above section, not contemporary for a guy who lived from 1811-1886 not contemporary? There are letters from him in his native tongue German. So how can his parents not be German? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.188.99.250 (talk) 18:42, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austria-hungary#Structure_and_name
The division was so marked between Austria and Hungary that there was no common citizenship: a person was either an Austrian or a Hungarian citizen, and no one was allowed to hold dual citizenship.[13][14][clarification needed] The difference in citizenship also meant that there were always separate Austrian and Hungarian passports, never a common one.[15][16]
The Empire of Austria and Kingdom of Hungary had always maintained separate parliaments. (See: Imperial Council (Austria) and Diet of Hungary.) Legally, except for the Pragmatic Sanction of 1713, common laws have never existed in the Empire of Austria and the Kingdom of Hungary. All laws, even the ones with identical content such as the compromise of 1867, had to pass the parliaments of both Vienna and Budapest. They were published in the respective official media, in the Austrian part it was called Reichsgesetzblatt, and was issued in eight languages.
Despite the fact that Austria and Hungary shared a common currency they were fiscally sovereign and independent entities.[17] From 1527 (the creation of the monarchic personal union) to 1851 the Kingdom of Hungary maintained its own customs borders which separated her from the other parts of the Habsburg-ruled territories.[18]Kukoricajanika (talk) 18:30, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
It is said that Franz Liszt had synesthesia, or a mixing of the senses.
yes, franz liszt had synesthesia. many other musicians and artists have synesthesia as well. the kind that liszt has is sound color.--Violarulez (talk) 18:06, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
And you know this how, exactly? Unless you are in reality, Franz Liszt, I can't really see what you could back that claim up with. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.252.42.161 (talk) 01:22, 20 October 2013 (UTC)
This article needs some audio clips. Anyone have any thoughts? I was thinking at least Les préludes. --98.246.156.76 (talk) 20:58, 16 November 2013 (UTC)
"Liszt having arrived in Rome on October 21, 1861, the Princess nevertheless declined, by the late evening, to marry him."
This needs to be revised. I can't tell what it is trying to say though. Lekro (discuss) 21:14, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
Formerly from List of people with synesthesia:
"When Liszt first began as Kapellmeister in Weimar (1842), it astonished the orchestra that he said: 'O please, gentlemen, a little bluer, if you please! This tone type requires it!' Or: 'That is a deep violet, please, depend on it! Not so rose!' First the orchestra believed Liszt just joked; more later they got accustomed to the fact that the great musician seemed to see colors there, where there were only tones."
— Anonymous, as quoted in Friedrich Mahling, p. 230. (Translation by Sean A. Day.) ---- Quoted from an anonymous article in the Neuen Berliner Musikzeitung (29 August 1895); quoted in Mahling, Friedrich. 1926. "Das Problem der 'Audition colorée: Eine historische-kritische Untersuchung." Archiv für die Gesamte Psychologie; LVII Band. Leipzig: Akademische Verlagsgesellschaft M.B.H. Pp. 165-301. Page 230. Translation by Sean A. Day.
Is this worthy of inclusion somewhere, with or without the explanatory quote? Martinevans123 (talk) 21:58, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
I have checked the indexes in the three volumes of Alan Walker's biography of Liszt and there is no mention at all of synesthesia. An anonymous article in a musical journal devoted to covering current topics, like the Neue Berliner Musikzeitung, is far from what can be called a reliable source, especially given the amount of fabulation that surrounds this composer. The argument is not very strong if only one single reference can be provided. Musicarius (talk) 17:39, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
The section on the 1830's/Paganini influence describes Liszt's style (without a specific citation) as "the 'flying trapeze' school of piano playing." The flying trapeze was not invented until 1859. How could this description have been used at the time? Rigadoun (talk) 06:48, 6 November 2014 (UTC)
Liszt was not notable as a freemason. See the instruction at Category:Freemasons. The category should not be added here. Kraxler (talk) 22:09, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
I was wondering if two changes could be made to the templates of this page: first of all, removing modernist composers (Liszt was a romantic composer and is not even in the template), and secondly, could someone create a Liszt template? I 'm not sure how to, but i think that Liszt deserves one.---- — Preceding unsigned comment added by Accurateedits (talk • contribs) 16:19, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
I have reverted today's addition of an infobox, which was added without discussion. Please can editors discuss here whether or not an infobox should go ahead - and provide please reasons for or against - before installing one. I remind editors that a unanimous resolution of arbitrators was that "The use of infoboxes is neither required nor prohibited for any article by site policies or guidelines. Whether to include an infobox, which infobox to include, and which parts of the infobox to use, is determined through discussion and consensus among the editors at each individual article". Thanks,--Smerus (talk) 14:10, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
We need an infobox in this article. --Lálálá9999 (talk) 21:12, 27 November 2015 (UTC)
This affair chez Princess Belgiojoso on 31 March 1837 is a pretty famous episode, after which the Princess decreed "Thalberg is the finest pianist in the world, but Liszt is unique". But I can find no reference to it in any of the three articles or their talk pages. Is there a reason for this omission? -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 09:53, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
This article is an awful ragbag, often with extensive discussion of minutiae and leaving out major factors. Needs an extensive cleanup.--Smerus (talk) 09:59, 21 April 2016 (UTC)
The earliest known ancestor in the paternal line is the composer's great-grandfather Sebastian List [sic]. Sebastian was a cotter ("Söllner"), said to be born in Rajka, Moson county, in about 1703, where he died on January 7, 1793. (This is according to Burgenland Newsletters 93). Even if the Hungarians stick to this story - Franz Liszt ist of Austrian/German origin (both parents are German speaking Austrians of German origin), he was brought up in German, spent most of his live in the german-western region and was the father-in-law of Richard Wagner (not Hungarian either, as much as I know..:-). Argument against: Ádám Liszt was not an Austrian, even if he would have been 100% german, which he was not. Name Slezák is slavic, from Northern Hungary, now Slovakia. Origin of name Liszt is UNCLEAR! Liszt means flour in hungarian! List measn tree-leaf in slovakian and in croatian! Liszt also looks in some photographies sligthly mongoloid, which is associated more with magyars, especially early magyars of the conquest-era, beginning ca 895. Liszt mother WAS partially Austrian. She was half Austrian. That is not uncommon to hungarians since they are more mixed than any other nation in Europe. Even common hungarians seem to forget about this fact! Have a look on any hungarians family tree. See hungarian writers family tree on Wikipedia in the hungarian language! See származás. Even a nationalistic hungarian poet like Petöfi was hardly more than 1 /16 -magyar...(Petöfi was of mixed serbian, slovakian, german (german speaking maybee swiss), and hungarian ancestry but of around 3/4 slovak ethnicity) This is an example of how difficult it is to understand what is an ethnic hungarian. Ethnic hungarians usually have some magyar strain, but it is generally in minority! DNA tests also verify this. Maybee szekler-magyars in Transylvania an hungarian nobility are exeptions to this. Some hungarian families have shifted ethnicity back and forth during the centuries. Magyar to slovak to german to slovak to magyar and so on. Of course he was influenced by the Hungarian folkmusic and livestyle, but he was a German speaking Citizen of the Austrian monarchyItalic text. Also his birthplace - Raiding - is in Austria. So please don't make him a Hungarian....it's jut not true.
--86.56.225.218 (talk) 20:41, 24 September 2009 (UTC) In 1811, when Listz was born, Raiding was located in the Austrian Empire, because only in 1967 the Kindom of Hungary, which was part of Austia-Hungary, was established. Second, the people of the Burgenland, where Listz was born, voted in a referendum to join Austria-not Hungary in 1914. Please, my Hungarian friends (my wife is from Hungary, I am from Austria), stop your self-deception and accept the truth. It is better for you in the long run.
The Croatian Dr Kuhac claimed plausible Slavonic (i.e.from Slavonia, then in the Kingdom of Hungary, or Slavic or Croatian) origin.[17]Sir William H. Hadow wrote that Liszt was an ethnical Hungarian.[18] In Walkers Liszt family-tree there are also germanized Magyar names (Schandor instead of Sándor) as there are germanized Slavic ones (Schlesak instead of Slezak)[19] to add to the general confusion. The German-Magyar battle over Liszt started first after Trianan 1920, when Váralja/Burgenland became Austrian. During the national-socialist (1933-1945)era all German biographers claim Liszt to be German. Liszt considered himself Magyar. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.177.143.211 (talk) 20:38, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
There are documented facts about a hungarian noble family in the 16th and 17th centuries from Nagyszeben, Transsylvania, the Listi family (alternatively spelled Liszt, Liszthi, Listius, Liszthy etc). They were barons of Köpcsény, which actually is in the area where the composers family lived in! This family lost all their fortunes.He (FRANZ LISZT!) tried himself to prove the relation to this family. It appears most plausible that the Liszt family should be credited as hungarian, but it was of mixed origin , as is the case with all hungarians. But of course slavs and germans could also be "genetically proud" of him. László of Vällingby, Stockholm
Since Ferenc Liszt or rather Liszt Ferenc was undoubtedly a Hungarian composer, why the article is titled with a german-sounding name (Frantz)? ~~Maciej, Warsaw, Poland — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.172.236.75 (talk) 20:23, 27 November 2016 (UTC)
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We noticed that information on Liszt's role as a conductor is missing. His conducting debut was in Jan of 1840 in Pest conducting Beethoven's Choral Fantasy and Mozart's Die Zauberflöte overture.
We suggest adding a section quoting "Liszt as a conductor" much like "Liszt as a pianist." Liszt pioneered the idea of being the "musician in chief," and using overarching gestures to convey musical idea and expression. In his manifesto titled "On Conducting," Liszt wrote that "We are helmsman, not oarsman." He was noted for his use of facial expression and use of body position to convey dynamic and feeling as he tried "to get the players to work as one." He also introduced the use of rubato in the orchestra which was unheard of at this time in orchestral music.
[3] Duwillconductor (talk) 17:43, 9 January 2017 (UTC)
In the section Late Works, it says: Liszt experimented with "forbidden" things such as:
Cool. Then it continues:
My concern is that it's left ambiguous what all five pieces are "also characteristic" of. Are they all characteristic of all three forbidden thing(s) -- the parallel 5ths? atonality? and repetitions of short motives? Or instead some combination thereof? Or are all five pieces characteristic of being "late works" in some other ways? Thanks, Nei1 (talk) 19:24, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
In short: reference making should be improved drastically to achieve unambiguousness in the logic of sentence building with the focus on formulating claims be to pronounce the said claims with more informativeness. E.g., consider the manner of wording of a part from "Liszt's students": "Some of Liszt's students were disappointed with him.[n 22] An example is Eugen d'Albert, who eventually was almost on hostile terms with Liszt.[n 23] Felix Draeseke who had joined the circle around Liszt at Weimar in 1857, is another example.". I'm confident the sources, referred to, are hardly obtainable (if ever, since most of such literature remains the part of collectible rarities kept in a limited number of library repositories) by the most of readers and even if it were otherwise the German language of the original sources is another serious obstacle for non-German speaking readers. One more hurdle is inconsistency: you say A, then, please, follow up the initiated trend: tell us about B, C and the rest so that the reader would know what were exact reasons for the person to be dissatisfied with Liszt's teaching (or whatever else) in a wider contextual environment. "Some of Liszt's students…" - who? What happened between d'Albert and Liszt? "..were another example" - be more specific. Adding some text won't make the article inflated but provide clear insight.
78.60.44.32 (talk) 02:13, 3 September 2017 (UTC)
I don't think it would be too trivial to note that the repeated use of Liszt's music in animated cartoons speaks to him having a familiarity to the general public that is rivaled by few others....PurpleChez (talk) 18:44, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
Sorry to see that small amount of sourced material removed as "cruft". I realise that postage stamps have nothing to do with his music per se, but I still think that mention of such small commemorations are encyclopedic. They often appear in all sorts of bio articles, sometimes accompanied by images. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:02, 12 July 2018 (UTC)
One of the main things I associate with Liszt isn't mentioned in the article at all: his hands could play chords reaching unusually far across the piano keys. It's easy to Google references like paragraph 6 of this one, but I don't know what the original source was. Art LaPella (talk) 02:45, 31 May 2019 (UTC)
An editor has sought (on two occasions) to delete reference to Hungarian nationalism in Liszt's case, on the specious grounds that such nationalism did not exist until the 20th century. Unfortunately the article Hungarian nationalism is rather poor and doesn't explain the 19th c. background clearly. But if anyone is in any doubt as to the reality of 19th century Hungarian nationalism and Liszt's attachment to it, let them read, for example, Funérailles. --Smerus (talk) 15:50, 1 February 2020 (UTC)