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Hello. I am living in Kyiv now and I am willing to take photos (Metros, streets, buildings, statues... whatever) but would like to know what is most needed. Is there a list that I missed and if not can we come up with one? Thanks. Greg.ory 16:11, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
Publish them on Commons, Metro is desperately needed. Please register so that you have a talk page and I tell you details of what is required.--Kuban kazak 16:23, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
I've registered (as Greg.ory) what do I need to do for you to be able to post on my talk page? Greg.ory 16:33, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
The Ukrainian one, not the Russian one. It's barely intelligible, at least to my ears. It seems truncated and somewhat muffled. Maybe someone would like to re-record it and upload a better and improved version. Peter1968 14:10, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
could someone please rearrange the galleries into logical groupings? (example: Cathedrals and churches gallery, Buildings gallery, Monumentsallery) or something similar? WoodElf 06:25, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
Correct me if I am mistaken, but shouldn't we include Kiev into the Category:Holy cities as Kiev is listed here? —dima /sb.tk/ 00:43, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
Year | Pop. | ±% |
---|---|---|
1979 | 2,144,000 | — |
1989 | 2,595,000 | +21.0% |
2001 | 2,611,327 | +0.6% |
2005 | 2,660,401 | +1.9% |
data source: [1] |
I made up the table of demographics, but could not figure out a way to cite within the table. So instead, I inserted a temporary sentence in the section's 1st paragraph. If you can fix it please do.--Riurik 21:38, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
I made a new table based on the found here. It took some time recalculating mm > inches, etc, and changing the color codes, but in the end it looks good. Numbers/calculations were double checked, and the table seems to be accurate and ready for everyone's scrutiny.--Riurik 18:33, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
Could someone explain this one being categorized as a holy city (Category:Holy cities) and being added to the List of holy cities as "Origin of Slavic Christianity"? Kiev has nothing to do with the "origin of Slavic Christianity", which emerged in Great Moravia and the First Bulgarian Empire in the middle of the 9th century, whereas Kievan Rus' wasn't Christianized until as late as 988. That said, I've reworded the thing as "Origin of East Slavic Christianity" and I'd like to see some evidence as to whether Kiev is really considered a "holy city" by the Orthodox Christians and why. No offence, but I wouldn't categorize a city that is not of universal Orthodox ecclesiastical importance as a holy city. If no convincing evidence is provided, I shall remove it from the category it doesn't belong to and remove it from the list of holy cities. Todor→Bozhinov 16:14, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
I suggest that the picture galleries from architectural monuments and views of kiev be merged into a single Picture Gallery at the end of the article, before the references. --WoodElf 09:06, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
Hello, recently I've added new link to External links, but wiki moderator removed it. This site (www.mykiev.info) doesn't advertise anything, but only gives the most full information about Kiev landmarks. There is no any analogue site in the internet both in Russian and English languages, so I think it worth adding. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Zakusha (talk • contribs) 15:52, 25 January 2007 (UTC).
About the article, it would be nice to have a section devoted to upcoming constructions in the city. — Alex (T|C|E) 05:31, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
Having waged a blatant propaganda war on Ukrainian pages, Muscovian editors are significantly damaging non-political, but top-important, pages in the first place. Like this one.
I mean we almost live at Soviet partisans, bloody Red Army and History of Сhristianity in Ukraine conducting edit wars there for years. But just take look at city and oblast pages!!! A "Federal city"?! "The city istelf designated as its own raion"? Kyiv Oblast ODA Chief is chairing the Oblast Council? The Mayor is "traditionally appointed" as KMDA chief? While me and my friends are busy with propagandists, important pages are being gradually destroyed by good-intended amateurs!
Normal users have no other choice, but to mobilize ourselves, split our attempts and start reanimating/developing geo articles like Kiev. Of course keeping eye on existing edit wars as well.AlexPU 20:44, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
On priorities. "Transport" section has grown too large. I think it needs a separate main article (with updated info on how many new tram lines Lyonia the Cosmos is going to launch :)). AlexkHristov, thanks for your peaceful message. The other Alex is being dangerously straightforward and emotional here :(. As for propaganda, it's flourishing here just like he says :((((. Cheers, Ukrained 20:46, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
P.S. AlexPU, why don't you go and take care of that Kyiv Oblast mistake? As a "father" of all UA-subdivisions info here? Ukrained 20:46, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
The above is the correct format as per WP:CITIES. Please try to follow it. --WoodElf 10:40, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
Is it just me or this section is odd? It is strange, fringe and unwikified. It also carries the tl:expand which places this not so bad article in a whole lot of uncalled for categories. --Irpen 22:22, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
((Expand-section|date=April 2007)) <!-- This section is criticizing local cuisine (but strangely never directly discusses Ukrainian/Slavic food) and cites no sources; it is completely subjective in nature. It doesn't even make any real assertions for that matter... The second statement in particular sounds like it came out of an episode of "$40 a Day." The comparison made is ambiguous... I don't know anything about the local cuisine of Kiev but I do know that this wasn't writing about it.-->
Kiev is also a great place for the food lovers, and not only those who have been fond of Ukrainian cuisine. An increasing number of international travelers, as well as the interest with which the Ukrainian city dwellers approach, have spurred a steady growth of bars and diners ranging from Japanese sushi-bars to traditional Italian and Spanish restaurants.
While there is about as much contrast between these in terms of quality of food served as there is between the social classes in Ukraine, the majority of eateries tend to be overpriced, however featuring polite and thorough services.
Per lack of reaction, I am moving it here. Please comment. --Irpen 00:40, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
Hey, we published a new webguide for kiev on kiev.com. We added a lot of sights, hotels, restaurants, hotels and so on. We also created a metro guide. Maybe this is an mentionable entry for the weblinks part. I guess it would help a lot of tourists. What do you think? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.203.6.144 (talk) 15:03, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
Please add ISO 3166-2 geocode in template after coordinates
region:UA-30_type:adm1st
--Leonid76 (talk) 11:11, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
In the middle ages the city was mentioned in published sources as Kiou, Kiow, Kiew, Kiovia. On one of the oldest English maps of the region Russiae, Moscoviae et Tartariae published by Ortelius (London, 1570) the city is spelled as Kiou. On the map by Guillaume de Beauplan (1650) the name of the city was given as Kiiow, and the region was named as Kÿowia. In English traveller Joseph Marshall's book Travels (London, 1772) the city is referred as Kiovia.
The pictured map and its title appear to be in Latin, not English. In what language were the other mentioned maps written? This should be clarified. Obviously, these would have been used as sources in the English-speaking world, but the current text implies that they were written in English, and that doesn't appear to be completely true. —Michael Z. 2007-08-05 21:07 Z
Well, there is no doubt about the second (1804) map that it is English. As for the earlier times, were there other than Latin maps common at all? If not, the Latin maps were the only ones used by the Anglophone travellers similar to any others. --Irpen 21:39, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
This section is in such a pity shape. I started on expansion. Please join. --Irpen 17:37, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
Can the page be completely unprotected as long as the page move privileges are kept fully protected, so to avoid any gung-ho renaming? The article has been protected for quite some time, I think. --Asteriontalk 23:42, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
OK, dear friends, now it's time to get back to the article's improvement. This is a very good article and the WP:FA status is within a reasonable reach. So, I nominated it for WP:GA. Please help improving it when reviewers leave constructive suggestions. --Irpen 03:09, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
By 1883, the Oxford English Dictionary included Kiev in a quotation.
That doesn't seem quite right, because the very first 352-page OED fascicle (A to Ant) was published in 1884. Does this actually mean "The Oxford English Dictionary cited Kiev in a quotation dated 1883"? Can someone quote the quotation? —Michael Z. 2007-09-16 05:38 Z
Re, OED, we need to dig out the long history who and when added this or hit the library. Despite a PD, this dictionary does not seem to be online.
I just found another old source: The American Cyclopædia, Appleton, NY, 1874 LCCN 07-19446 Google books link has an entry on Kiev. Perhaps worthy to add a citation. Also, the article is interesting both as a source on the city and of the time. I take a liberty to paste it in full here:
- KIEV, II. A city, capital of the government, on the right bank of the Dnieper, 270 m. N. of Odessa; pop. in 1867, 70,591. It consists of four parts, the old town, the Petcherskoi or new fort, both on steep hills, the Podol or low town, between the hills and the river, and the Vladimir town, which was added to the former by the empress Catharine II.
- The old town, which in the times preceding the conversion of the Russians to Christianity, under Vladimir the Great, was the principal seat of Sarmatian and Russian heathen worship, now contains, besides several other churches, the cathedral of St. Sophia, a magnificent structure of the llth century, and the palace of the Greek metropolitan. The fort contains the great Petcherskoi monastery from which it received its name, and which, together with the bastions and walls of the place, and the glittering gilt and colored cupolas of the churches on the neighboring eminences, makes a strong impression upon the traveller who approaches the city from the other side of the Dnieper.. This division embraces the barracks of the garrison, the arsenals and magazines, the houses of the officers, the palace of the governor, numerous churches, and the renowned catacombs of St. Anthony, consisting of exc avations in a precipitous cliff on the banks of the river, which attract numberless pilgrims from all parts of Russia through veneration for the saints whose bodies are there preserved. Adjoining are the catacombs of St. Theodosius, which contain a smaller number of saints. The Podol, which is the commercial part of the city, is regularly laid out, and embellished with gardens.
- Kiev has a large university, founded in 1834, to which are attached a library and cabinets of medals, zoology, mineralogy, and botany. There are also various other institutions of learning, of which the Greek theological academy in the Petcherskoi monastery is the best endowed and most frequented.
- The manufactures and trade of the city are not important. Railways connect it with Moscow and St. Petersburg, Odessa, and Lemberg. A magnificent bridge, recently constructed, spans the Dnieper.
- The earliest history of Kiev is traced by some to the time of the Greek colonies near the N. coast of the Black sea ; others place its foundation in the 5th century. In the last quarter of the 9th century it became the residence of the princes of Novgorod. As the cap ital of Christianized Russia, it was adorned in the llth century with a great number of churches. After the middle of the 12th, however, it was deprived of its rank, and subsequently suffered by the devastations of the Tartars, the Lithuanian and Polish wars, the plague, and fires. After having been for about three centuries in the hands of the Poles, it was reannexed to Russia by the peace of 1667.
I hope this longish quote of PD text pasted to a talk page is not too annoying. Feel free to remove if it is. Just save the diff then. Cheers, --Irpen 09:43, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
UKRAINIAN-ENGLISH TRANSLITERATION TABLE
On 19 April 1996, an official Ukrainian-English transliteration system was adopted by the Ukrainian Legal Terminology Commission (Decision N 9).
- Use of the approved system is not mandatory for the transliteration of foreign names into Ukrainian.
- Transliteration should be made directly between Ukrainian and English without the use of any intermediary languages.
- Decision 9 9, in accordance with the Legal Terminology Commission s express authority, is binding only for the transliteration of Ukrainian names in English in legislative and official acts.
- For brevity's sake, the system routinely allows for names such as the city of 'Zaporizhzhia' to be given as 'Zaporizhia,' 'L'viv' as 'Lviv,' etc. Also included is a short list of official spellings for miscellaneous terms: 'Ukraine' (no use of the article 'the'), 'Crimea' (as opposed to 'Krym'), 'Black Sea,' and 'Sea of Azov'. *In certain cases, 'traditional' forms may be shown in parentheses after the official form: 'Dnipro (Dnieper).'
- In addition, apostrophe marks and softening marks may be omitted upon transliteration into English.
Ukrainian letter English letter Note Example
- А А - Алушта - Alushta
- Б B - Борщагівка - Borschahivka
- В V - Вишгород - Vyshhorod
- Г H, gh Н-in most cases, gh - when recreating the combination “зг” Гадяч - Hadiach;Згорани - Zghorany
- Ґ G - Ґалаґан - Galagan
- Д D - Дон - Don
- Е E - Рівне - Rivne
- Є Ye, ie Ye - at the beginning of words, іе - in other positions Єнакієве - Yenakiieve;Наєнко - Naienko
- Ж Zh - Житомир - Zhytomyr
- З Z - Закарпаття - Zakarpattia
- И Y - Медвин - Medvyn
- I I - Iршава - Irshava
- Ї I Yi - at the beginning of words, і - in other positions Їжакевич - Yizhakevych;Кадіївка - Kadiivka
- Й Y, i Y - at the beginning of words, і - in other positions Йосипівка - Yosypivka;Стрий - Stryi
- К K - Київ - Kyiv
- Л L - Лебедин - Lebedyn
- М M - Миколаїв - Mykolaiv
- Н N - Ніжин - Nizhin
- О O - Одеса - Odesa
- П P - Полтава - Poltava
- Р R - Ромни - Romny
- С S - Суми - Sumy
- Т T - Тетерів - Teteriv
- У U - Ужгород - Uzhhorod
- Ф F - Фастів - Fastiv
- Х Kh - Харків - Kharkiv
- Ц Ts - Біла Церква - Bila Tserkva
- Ч Ch - Чернівці - Chernivtsi
- Ш Sh - Шостка - Shostka
- Щ Sch - Гоща -Hoscha
- Ь ‘ (see commentary) Русь - Rus’; Львів - L’viv
- Ю Yu, iu Yu - at the beginning of words, iu - in other positions Юрій - Yurii;Крюківка - Krukivka
- Я Ya, ia Ya - at the beginning of words, іа - in other positions Яготин - Yahotyn;Iчня - Ichnia
- ‘ (apostrophe) “ (see commentary) Знам’янка - Znamianka
Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 07:15, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
There is another quote from the Constitution of Ukraine [2]. In Chapter I, Article 20 clearly states what the capital of Ukraine is. Are we going to diregard that?
Article 20
- The state symbols of Ukraine are the State Flag of Ukraine, the State Coat of Arms of Ukraine and the State Anthem of Ukraine.
- The State Flag of Ukraine is a banner of two equally-sized horizontal bands of blue and yellow.
- The Great State Coat of Arms of Ukraine shall be established with the consideration of the Small State Coat of Arms of Ukraine and the Coat of Arms of the Zaporozhian Host, by the law adopted by no less than two-thirds of the constitutional compositio n of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine.
- The main element of the Great State Coat of Arms of Ukraine is the Emblem of the Royal State of Volodymyr the Great (the Small State Coat of Arms of Ukraine).
- The State Anthem of Ukraine is the national anthem set to the music of M. Verbytskyi, with words that are confirmed by the law adopted by no less than two-thirds of the constitutional composition of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine.
- The description of the state symbols of Ukraine and the procedure for their use shall be established by the law adopted by no less than two-thirds of the constitutional composition of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine.
- The capital of Ukraine is the City of Kyiv.
Here is the official postal address at the US embassy [3]. Please, pay attention to name of the link and the postal address. Here is the British embassy web-site in Ukraine [4]. Here is resolution of the Ukrainian commission for legal terminology No. 5, protocol no.1 of October 14, 1995 [5].
More[6]:
- РІШЕННЯ
УКРАЇНСЬКОЇ КОМІСІЇ З ПИТАНЬ ПРАВНИЧОЇ ТЕРМІНОЛОГІЇ
No.9
Протокол No.2 від 19 квітня 1996 р.
Комісія, розглянувши на підставі п. 6 ч,4 Положення про Українську комісію з питань правничої термінології питання щодо затвердження таблиці для відтворення українських власних назв засобами англійської мови та правил до неї, спираючись на подання Інституту української мови НАН України, УХВАЛИЛА:
1. Затвердити як нормативну таблицю для відтворення українських власних назв засобами англійської мови та правила до неї (додається).
2. На підставі п. 7 Положення про Українську комісію з питань правничої термінології встановити, що нормативна таблиця застосовується при відторенні українських власних назв засобами англійської мови у законодавчих та офіційних актах.
3. Визначити, що роз'яснення щодо особливостей застосування таблиці та висновки щодо правильності її застосування надає Інститут українсчкої мови НАН України (за його згодою), із погодженням, у раці необхідності, з Комісією.
Голова Комісії, Міністр юстиції України
С. ГОЛОВАТИЙ
Відповідальний секретар Комісії
Ю. ЗАЙЦЕВДодаток до рішення No.9
української комісії з питань правничої термінології
протокол No.2 від 19 квітня 1996 р.
Нормативна таблиця для відтворення українських власних назв засобами англійської мови No. Укр. Літери Лат. Літери Примітки Приклади застосування
1 А A - Алушта Alushta
2 Б B - Борщагівка Borschahivka
3 В V - Вишгород Vyshhorod
4 Г H , gh Н - у більшості випадків Гадяч, Згорани Hadiach, Zghorany
5 Ґ G - Ґалаґан Galagan
6 Д D - Дон Don
7 Е E - Рівне Rivne
8 Є Ye , ie Ye - на початку слова, ie - в інших позиціях Єнакієве, Наєнко Yenakiieve, Naienko
9 Ж Zh - Житомир Zhytomyr
10 З Z - Закарпаття Zakarpattia
11 И Y - Медвин Medvyn
12 І I - Іршава Irshava
13 Ї I Yi - на початку слова, I - в інших позиціях Їжакевич, Кадіївка Yizhakevych, Kadiivka
14 Й Y , i Y - на початку слова, i - в інших позиціях Йосипівка, Стрий Yosypivka, Stryi
15 К K - Київ Kyiv
16 Л L - Лебедин Lebedyn
17 М M - Миколаїв Mykolaiv
18 Н N - Ніжин Nizhyn
19 О O - Одеса Odesa
20 П P - Полтава Poltava
21 Р R - Ромни Romny
22 С S - Суми Sumy
23 Т T - Тетерів Teteriv
24 У U - Ужгород Uzhhorod
25 Ф F - Фастів Fastiv
26 Х Kh - Харків Kharkiv
27 Ц Ts - Біла Церква Bila Tserkva
28 Ч Ch - Чернівці Chernivtsi
29 Ш Sh - Шостка Shostka
30 Щ Sch - Гоща Hoscha
31 Ь ' - Русь, Львів Rus', L'viv
32 Ю Yu , iu Yu - на початку слова, iu - в інших позиціях Юрій, Крюківка Yurii, Kriukivka
33 Я Ya , ia Ya - на початку слова, ia - в інших позиціях Яготин, Ічня Yahotyn, Ichnia
34 ' ia - Знам'янка ZnamiankaПравила відтворення українських власних назв засобами англійської мови
1. Вітворення українських власних назв засобами англійської мови відбуваєтчся з їх української форми, записаної відповідно до чинного правопису, без посередництва будь-якої іншої мови.
2. Відтоврення українських власних назв засобами англійської мови відбувається шляхом транслітерації (політерного перезапису за допомогою латинського алфавіту). Міжмовні алфавітні відповідники подано в нормативаній таблиці, коментар до якої наведено нижче.
3. Вимоги цих правл не обов'язкові для запису українських імен іноземних громадян. Коментар до нормативної таблиці: У певних сферах відтворення українських власних назв вживається спрощений варіант запису, що передбачає:
а) орфографічне спрощення громіздкого подвоення приголосних ж, х, ц, ч, ш, які відтворюються буквосполученнями zh, kh, ts, ch, sh, наприклад, Запоріжжя -- Zaporizhia,
б) апостроф і знак м'якшення (за винятком буквосполучень -ьо-, -ьї-, що завжди передаються як -'o, 'i-) у спрощеній транслітерації не відтворюються.
Приклади:
Українська форма: Спрощення транслітерація: Точна транслітерація:
Львів Lviv L'viv
Ананьїв Ananiv Anan'iv
Стеф'юк Stefiuk Stef’iuk
Koрoп’є Koropie Korop’ie
Голова Комісії, Міністр юстиції України
С. ГОЛОВАТИЙ
Відповідальний секретар комісії
Ю.ЗАЙЦЕВ
- РОЗ'ЯСНЕННЯ
щодо особливостей застосування нормативної таблиці для відтворення українських власних назв засобами англійської мови
1. Звичайно застосовується спрощена транслітерація. Точна транслітерація вживається тільки в окремих випадках і за погодженням з Українською комісією з питань правничої термінології та Інститутом української мови НАН Україин.
2. Зберігають традиційне написання такі власні назви:
Ukraine (вживається без артикля the)
Crimea
Black Sea
Sea of Azov
3. В окремих випадках і за умов, коли це не суперечить правилам оформлення відповідного документа, транслітерована власна назва може дублюватися у дужках традиційним написанням, наприклад: Dnipro (Dnieper)
Голова Української Комісії з питань правничої термінології
С. ГОЛОВАТИЙ
Директор Інституту української мови НАН України
О. ТАРАНЕНКО
Запити та пропозиції щодо інших особливостей застосування нормативної таблиці направляти у письмовому вигляді до Української комісії з питань правличої термінології (252033, Київ, вул. Саксаганського, 41) та до Інституту Української мови НАН України (252001, Київ, МСН, вул. Грушевського, 4).
You know, there are laws that suggest the spelling of the words. Is that crazy? None the less, people still keep on searching for stuff that certaintly will not be there due to strict censorship in times of the Soviet government. No one calls Ukraine Ukrainian SSR any longer or some other crazy names that they have for it in 1874. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 07:54, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
The article is a good, solid B-class article, but does not currently meet the Good Article criteria, and will not be listed at this time.
Most obviously, the article is largely insufficiently referenced. There are large sections of the article with zero sources, and many more with only one. **Everything** doesn't **have** to be cited for GA criteria, but at a minimum, the article should provide inline citations from reliable sources for direct quotations, statistics, published opinion, counter-intuitive or controversial statements that are challenged or likely to be challenged, and contentious material relating to living persons.
The reference citation list is also not formatted properly. Citations should include full citation information (e.g. author, title, publisher, date of publication, and date of retrieval if a web link is available). This is so that, if a web link should become unavailable (404 not found), readers can still verify the source through other means and the reference is not totally useless. I would recommend taking a look at WP:CITE for information on how to use inline citations in articles.
The article prose can be choppy at times, and somewhat difficult to read. Minor words, like "the", or commas, are often missing. A good copyedit would be recommended. It would help to review the manual of style as well.
The lead could use some work. It's not bad, but the third paragraph seems to go on and on about the history, and isn't very short and concise. Some of this material could go into the history section, and only the major facts should be included. The lead section should contain a good, clear, and concise summary of the article, and should almost be able to stand on its own without the rest of the article, if the reader chooses to only read the lead. It would help to review WP:LEAD for tips on improving this section. Oh, and the image in the infobox is copyrighted; I believe the copyright tag is good, but it doesn't have a fair-use rationale. I don't really understand what, "Should be PD as 'news' by UA law, but fairuse for now." means? Nice image, though! ;-)
I would recommend a better organization of sections, at least for the beginning. After the lead, start with 'etymology' (move the contents of 'city name evolution' to 'etymology', since that's what it is). Then, put history, followed by geography (rename 'environment' to 'geography', and eliminate the first unnecessary subsection header there), then 'demographics', and then 'economy'. I'd put 'culture' after that, followed by 'sports' (move sports to its own main section, as it can stand on its own outside of culture), and then 'government', 'education', and 'transportation' at the end.
You might want to add some details on the cityscape (streets & neighborhoods) to the geography section.
What about talking about some of the local politics and the interactions of the mayor and city council with the citizens. BTW, who's the mayor? While it's generally unnecessary to list the entire members of the city council, if it's very large, some of the key officers are generally important. Maybe also include some information on national legislative representatives, too.
The demographics section looks good, and reasonably well referenced (although the ethnic group figures are unsourced). I also would find it interesting to have an explanation for the huge drop in population around WWII and its subsequent rise back to over a million in the decade that followed?
I would eliminate the 'modern kiev' title and simply call this 'culture'. The language really should be cleaned up, and there are no sources. Watch for weasel words and flowery language in the culture section. Things like, "hip nightclubs, classy restaurants and prestigious hotels". While it's still written in prose, a lot of the information on cultural attractions is really just a list in disguise, and more information could be added to spruce this up a bit. Also, what about including some information about any annual cultural events or fairs in the city? Don't forget to include sources and references for information in this section, either.
The 'tourism' section should probably be merged partially with the culture section, and partially with economy, if tourism is a significant aspect of the economy. Remember, wikipedia is not a tourist guide, and text should focus on the encyclopedic nature of information.
There's a couple of 'see also' links in several sections that link to categories, and not individual articles. This is generally discouraged and these 'see also' links should ideally go to a separately linked article. For example, if the culture section has a lot of info, link to See also: Culture in Kiev.
There are two galleries of images (culture and tourism) that really don't seem to contribute much to the article in its position, as they're just images. I would recommend taking the best images and using them within the text of the article, to help talk about various cultural attractions. If there are a lot of images, any that aren't used in the text could be added to a 'gallery' section at the end of the article, but before the 'see also' and 'references' sections.
Since there's not really that many external links, it probably isn't necessary to separate them into subsections. Also, any links that are used as inline citations, need not be linked at the bottom under 'external links', since they'll fall under 'references' instead. Review WP:EL for tips on including external links in sections and keeping the amount of linkspam down.
Hope this review helps to improve the article up to GA status. Please renominate it once the issues are addressed. Cheers! Dr. Cash 05:08, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
Can a registered user please correct the spelling of the word "similar" in the reference for the spelling Kyjevъ? Due to the semi-protected status of this article, unregistered users like myself can't make trivial edits such as this. Thanks, 60.242.0.245 12:35, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
Wow, that whole part of the reference has been removed. Just to check - the similarity mentioned in the older reference was between the spelling in the Chronicle compared to modern Ukrainian, as opposed to Russian, wasn't it? Or was it about the Latin transliterations of each spelling? 60.242.0.245 (talk) 08:03, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
I'm...not sure I know what you're talking about. PS, is that you Horlo? Bogdan що? 21:01, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
I would suggest removing the image galleries of the article (Kiev#Architectural monuments and Kiev#Views of Kiev) as they take up too much space and are bulky. I understand that all of these images are needed to the article, but let's not get every important image into the article.. Any comments? —dima/talk/ 19:43, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
The lead: The title can be followed in the first line by a list of alternative names in parentheses...Relevant foreign language names (one used by at least 10% of sources in the English language or is used by a group of people which used to inhabit this geographical place) are permitted and should be listed in alphabetic order of their respective languages.
Regards, Bogdan що? 16:55, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
Ladies and gentlemen, the section looks amusingly absurdous for me. Kiev, as with most settlements in Ukraine, is supplied with electricity by the national grid (like it was redundantly stated in the section). To the best of my humble knowledge, the "grid" means that no particular power station is relevant more than the others. Not to mention the "power supply in the form of natural gas, piped from..." :) Thus, the whole section is probably an original research.
On the other hand, we may want to describe the energy industry in the city. Which would lead us to a pretty different picture: in fact there are several power stations inside Kiev, owned by the city community and even foreign investors. Even that stinky trash-burning company is a minor energy producer, hence the "Energiya" name :) So we might, or might not, reflect all this in the main city article. Anyway, Economy of Kiev is the ultimate place for such information. I hope to get there some day. Thanks, Ukrained (talk) 00:49, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
The whole "Economy" section of this article desperately needs expansion and updating rewriting within current size. I'm sure that significant number of "new" Kievans have never even heard of all those Soviet industrial giants :) But they must be very fond of booming construction industry, PFTS stock exchange, or at least Troyeschyna bazar :) Ukrained (talk) 00:49, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
I've tagged it all across, gentlemen. Ukrained (talk) 01:09, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
I think the definite article "the" should be removed from the following captions:
Could a registered user look into that please? Thanks, 60.242.0.245 (talk) 10:26, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
The line "In the Ukrainian language itself, the name of the city was pronounced Kiev until only about 100 years ago." does not match the source (http://www.infoukes.com/faq/kyiv-2/), where the author states "The spelling Kyiv (Kyyiv) has been used in Ukrainian for only about the last century". This is a statement about the English spelling, not pronunciation. BTW, I do not discuss it the (original) sentence makes any sense whatsoever or the author is an expert enough to be quoted about the issue. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 140.254.93.99 (talk) 18:07, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
The primary name of the article is very important, as it is the first thing a reader sees. However, the rest of the article needs to be looked after too: grammatical issues that can be found at Talk:Kyiv#Architectural_monuments were raised by myself seventeen days ago, and have not been corrected by any of the registered users - neither the 'regulars', nor those who added their voices to this talk page once the rename was requested. Also, if one reads Talk:Kyiv#incorrect_atribution, they will come across another error which is yet to be corrected. Can a registered user please look into this?
Thanks, 60.242.0.245 (talk) 10:37, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
Given Kiev National Taras Shevchenko University is the first institution mentioned, any good reason to keep Irpen's deletion/replacement with a 1911 picture versus Greggerr's picture of the University?. -PētersV (talk) 15:31, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
Well, I am glad you are familiar with this building's history. Also, note, that it was built as a Pedagogical Museum and is now again a city's Teacher's House.
I propose a straw poll photo is better for the city education section as long as it is too short to accommodate more than one image.
Do you understand that the photo you brought in is controversial and offensive to Ukrainians? How many in the Russian Empire were getting education in their native language? What was the "prosveschenie" about? That Ukrainians are "Russian people". But we are not. We have got our language, and were close to get a country in 1917-20. I'm assuming your good fate, but I know you are smart not to notice the underlying meaning of the photo you brought in.
You know that your postcard is no way the best illustration for the 'Education' section. The building is of marginal importance for education. City articles are about city characteristics, not just history. There is a section on history, and your Podol photo is acceptable for this. But except the history section, the rest of the article covers modern characteristics. Black and white 100 year old photo is not a representation of modern education. It's an interesting photo, and it is a must in the article about the building in pair with the current photo, but pushing it into Kiev is too far.
The straw poll? Will it be "Russian people" vs. Eastern Europeans? You are here the one who is pushing a controversial photo. Probably in this particular issue you need to step back. --Greggerr (talk) 08:25, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
For Tyahnybok, I don't even pay attention to how much support he gets. It can never become large enough to matter to me precisely because the majority of Ukrainians always rejected and I daresay will reject the ultra-nationalist rhetoric. If you want to know what political developments in Ukraine I dislike we can have this fascinating discussion elsewhere but please do not put things in my mouth.
BAck to the image, I am not sure about the monarchist statement. If you check the sources on the building in question, it was built on the charitable contributions of prominent Kievans. The museum was international and multicultural, just like Kiev was and remained through its history.
For the Red Army in Lviv pic, you could have asked in another article, but I would satisfy your curiosity. The 1939 unification of Ukraine (for the first time ever) was an event of the epochal significance in its history. Many historians agree on that and I think such an event deserves the image. What image is best, we could discuss. You chose, instead, to sneakily nominate it for deletion. From my past experience with you this was unsurprising. Now you are trying a different trick, to claim the image's being offensive out of thin air. You tried to pull that card in the discussion of the hero city template and many other times.
If this museum was indeed offensive to Kievans, I am sure it was said somewhere. This could certainly be a valid argument but not if it comes from a pseudonymous Wikipedia editor. Some find the very name of the city "offensive" and some may even consider the Latin characters "offensive". Now, please keep this discussion on topic.
Thank you for bringing in the third image. Now, let's let others provide their opinions. I am particularly interested in the opinions of editors who spend much effort to build this article but of course anyone's opinion may be helpful. --Irpen 11:09, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
I'm going for the "anyone's opinion" category:
When considering both the current and historic significance of the buildings, as well as the suitability and aesthetics of their pictures, the Mohyla Academy seems to win out. A possible problem is that it could be seen as non-representative, due to its relatively low number of enrollments (it's now an 'exclusive' centre of learning). The pedagogical museum is quite interesting architecturally, but lacks current significance relative to the others. Kyiv University is of course very relevant, though a scaled-down photo of that building may not be the best choice for the article (it looks quite monochromatic, especially in a small image).
what is the point of having the russian name if there is a link to the name in other languages article (which russian is in)? Ostap 20:01, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
This article reads like a travel brochure. I'd fix it myself, but I'm on the road.79.188.24.234 (talk) 16:29, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
says this article. Should this be mentioned in this article or is it to detailed information? — Mariah-Yulia (talk) 13:16, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
I see that the last hours we had 3 different pictures of Kyiv in the infobox. Somehowe I think the current picture of Besarabsky Market is not the best way to represent Kyiv... Should we have some sort of vote on this? — Mariah-Yulia (talk) 11:45, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
I see that New York City and London and other city articles use montages-pictures in the infobox. Mabey that is a good idea for this Kiev article. It could stop the neverending chances of pictures (of latley). I have no idea why the current picure is seen as more typical Kiev then a picture of Maidan. I hope it is not some anti-Orange Revolution statment, I was in favour of a Maidan picture cause it is known most in English speaking country's (I do believe).
I propose a montage including
What do you think? — Mariah-Yulia (talk) 12:50, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
It's not a question of any old monument, but a question of a recognizable monument. I have to disagree with Toddy about the Babi Yar memorial. It is a worthy memorial, but it is not a recognizable feature of Kyiv. With the Orange Revolution, Maidan and the monument to Freedom became internationally noteworthy and recognizable. --Taivo (talk) 20:35, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
I think that the city is not best represented by religious iconography. I think it would be best to stick to a generalised view of the city. It may be more appropriate to have an image that captures recent and past points of interest. Maidan reminds me of the golden statue used in the U2 video. I am thinking that a montage may not be such a good thing either as past conversations have gone against that sort of thing, although there has been a general trend for them on other articles there have also been problems with people changing them for their own preferred montages (especially for ones from companies or flickr etc.) although having two or three together may be ok. Chaosdruid (talk) 15:36, 27 January 2011 (UTC) I thoroughly agree that the present photo is not a good representative of the city's skyline, although it's technically and artistically quite a nice photo. I have seen better views of the Kyiv skyline! The classic, of course, would be from the left bank on to the Lavra and the war museum, but that is a) pretty hackneyed by now and b) is being spoiled by the new developments beginning to poke up over the ridge (which should maybe have their own section - no one denies the city needs poffice space, but does it have to be so obtrusive?). Maybe a view from behind the museum in the Lavra looking over the monastery and on to the Dnipr, toward Levoberezhnoe? I'll see later if I have one! Maelli (talk) 07:45, 30 August 2012 (UTC)
Since when Kyi, Schek, and Khoryv became Variags??? Who claims that? That is a bad example of a theory. The name of statue in Kyiv commemorates the Founders of the City, not Variags. Why are you putting a wrong name of the statue and reflecting false impressions? That is crazy! First of all the name of the statue has no relevance to Variags and second of all only a few historians relate Kyi, Schek, and Khoryv to that ethnicity stating that it could be false. So why won't simply put the real name of the statue instead of self-conscienciously renaming it. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 19:29, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
A lot of energy has been spent discussing naming—I'd suggest instead that we put the proverbial stake in the ground and agree to work toward the necessary improvements in the article to achieve GA/FA. The easiest is to look around for other articles about cities which are rated GA or FA.
Outline of Kiev
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Outline of London, GA
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Outline of Johannesburg, FA
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Perhaps we can reorder the sections—for example, do geography and climate really belong at top?—and then work from there. Also, if we do decide to communally apply ourselves I'd suggest archiving most of the talk here and leaving only the threads that apply to the original GA review. Kiev is more than deserving of our efforts here. While there's been progress, there's also been contentiousness—and we have not had a specific goal to work toward. I think the Johannesburg outline would do us well and help organize our efforts to address areas where the current article is deficient in content. Anyway, my thoughts having viewed Kiev over quite some time now. PētersV TALK 18:14, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
How about a Template:Capitals of Ukraine? Interesting for foreigners I presume! — Mariah-Yulia • Talk to me! 11:19, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
I found the proposed template thoroughly confusing - nothing is in date order - the references are to different entities - and it misses out the Zaporozhian Sich. The template is pushing a point of view on the history of this area - and this is deeply political and unbacked by citations. Wikipedia is meant to have a neutral point of view, and to have citations given for information, especially for controversial information
I looked at some of articles on towns in the template. Some have no citations whatsoever. It would be better effort were put into adding citations to these articles on supposed 'capitals of Ukraine'.--Toddy1 (talk) 07:10, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
This is a brilliant idea!!! Excellent!! Well worth expanding. I will get to work on it immediately! Thank you for suggesting it. Horlo (talk) 10:30, 9 February 2010 (UTC)
Love the collage on the infobox. Excellent work! Keep it up... Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 04:15, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
Page 42-43 of the IPA Handbook clearly shows [w] and [j] as off-glides. There is no phonetic distinction between using [w] or the non-syllabic mark under a [u]. The non-syllabic mark is for use under a vowel symbol when there is no IPA symbol for the non-syllabic form, thus a non-syllabic mark is appropriate under an [e] because there is no IPA symbol for the non-syllabic version. With [u] and [i], however, there is [w] and [j], so the non-syllabic marking is not necessary. If you have an actual reference that says they are different, then please bring it forward. Otherwise, stop the edit warring. --Taivo (talk) 17:23, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
Review
There's no real issue here. The contemporary Ukrainian evidence is conclusive. --Taivo (talk) 12:33, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
Hi all
The page is becoming a bit too much like a gallery - lots of pictures all over theplace making the text difficult to read.
Do not forget that some people may read this on a small screen and to keep going left and right to follow the text would probably get frustrating.
I have tidied up some of the pics and removed some from the huge Architectural monuments section - two were repeat views and one was the exact same file from higher up the page.
If anyone is picky and decides they don't like all the images they could easily decide to delete a lot quoting "not a gallery" so I thought it best to adress the issues now :¬)
Chaosdruid (talk) 18:45, 2 July 2010 (UTC)
Is it me, my computer or the file ??
This does not say Kyiv, Kiev or anything like it when I play it...it sounds like "be-iv" - anyone speak Ukrainian and has a microphone >????
Chaosdruid (talk) 18:59, 2 July 2010 (UTC)
Who wrote the history section? It's a complete raving. Starting from the truly fantastic «Hungarian rule», including that groundless «Khazarian outpost», and finishing with those strange words about «captured by Muscovites in 1230» something. That's a real gibberish, delirium.
I don't know who wrote the history section, but I have added some more info on the Hungarian rule. I think the whole article is fair, almost all opinions and views, theories are represented, however calling the ,,Hungarian rule" truly fantastic or identifying it as raving shows you should have a little bit make a deeper analysis on history. I can offer you Constantinos Phorphyrogenetos and some Arab sources, however it is debated where Lebedia and Etelköz were accurately, but it is sure by migrating to the Carpathian Basin they have incorporated the territory and city in question. The so-called ,,Khazar-outpost" are much more debated. (KIENGIR (talk) 22:13, 19 September 2011 (UTC))
Babi Yar is part of the history of Kiev. The site is no longer just outside the city. Some of the ravines are now a park. There are also some memorials across the road from the park. Further on from the memorials are both communist and Christian cemeteries. I think Babi Yar should be mentioned in the article, and a photograph of the big memorial to the Jews murdered there should be in the article on Kiev.--Toddy1 (talk) 10:04, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
What do you say if I prepare a table of historical economic data to complement Economy section that will look like this?
2004 | 2005 | 2006 | 2007 | 2008 | 2009 | 2010 | |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Nominal GRP (UAH bn) | |||||||
Nominal GRP (USD bn) | |||||||
Nominal GRP per capita (UAH) | |||||||
Nominal GRP per capita (USD) | |||||||
Real GRP growth (%) | |||||||
Monthly Wage (USD) | |||||||
Unemployment Rate (%) | |||||||
Retail Sales (UAH bn) | |||||||
Retail Sales (USD bn) | |||||||
Foreign Direct Investment (USD bn) |
Invest in knowledge (talk) 23:40, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
2004 | 2005 | 2006 | 2007 | 2008 | 2009 | 2010 | |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Nominal GRP (UAH bn) | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 |
Nominal GRP (USD bn) | |||||||
Nominal GRP per capita (UAH) | |||||||
Nominal GRP per capita (USD) | |||||||
Real GRP growth (%) | |||||||
Monthly Wage (USD) | |||||||
Unemployment Rate (%) | |||||||
Retail Sales (UAH bn) | |||||||
Retail Sales (USD bn) | |||||||
Foreign Direct Investment (USD bn) |
Is that table correct ??
In 10XX the population was 100,000 and dropped to 15,000 by 1647 ?
Chaosdruid (talk) 00:52, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
A chat on Facebook is not a reliable source for anything on Wikipedia. The posters on Facebook can claim to be anybody, but there is no control whatsoever on who they actually are. A mass murderer in Trenton, New Jersey can claim to be the CEO of The Economist and there is no way to tell otherwise. You cannot use a Facebook chat as a source for anything whatsoever, especially something as potentially contentious as the usage of Kiev or Kyiv. --Taivo (talk) 08:06, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
-- Sanya3 (talk) 09:28, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
Taivo, please stop misrepresenting my case. This has nothing to do with a Facebook "chat". It's a facebook Discussion on an official page for the Economist. There is nothing in Wikipedia guidelines stating that no information from Facebook whatsoever can be used. This is very interesting inside information and deserves to be heard. These are my arguments:
One editor has recently pushed in the section on History of the Name in English to include a Facebook quote from a single newspaper where there has been some internal debate over whether to switch to Kyiv. Is this really significant encyclopedic content? Does it violate WP:UNDUE? I'd like to hear other opinions and not just Sanya3's. --Taivo (talk) 14:19, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
Just a comment. Probably, the wider international acceptance of the transliterated name form ‘Kyiv’ is slowed by certain drawbacks in the present official Ukrainian system for the Romanization of Ukrainian itself. Indeed, that system seeks compatibility with English sound-letter correspondences, and the primary purpose of any such system would be to ensure a plausible phonemic approximation of Ukrainian words by English speaking users, including those having no knowledge of the Ukrainian language and no available additional explanations. However, without such explanations one can hardly guess the system’s somewhat complicated graphemic correspondences И → Y; І → I; Ї → Yi (initial positions) and I (other positions); Й → Y (initial positions) and I (other positions). More appropriate in this case might be the correspondences И → I; І → I; Ї → Yi; Й → Y, according to which ‘Киïв’ would be transliterated as ‘Kiyiv’, and reasonably adequately read by English speaking users too. Anyway, the official Ukrainian system is as it is – for now. Apcbg (talk) 08:44, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
Indeed, that system seeks compatibility with English sound-letter correspondences, and the primary purpose of any such system would be to ensure a plausible phonemic approximation of Ukrainian words by English speaking users
And unfortunately all we have to go by is the (presumably Ukrainian?) editor who gave us the little soundbite [ˈkɪjiw] on the page. I did ask a long time ago for someone to redo it as it is very hard to tell the first iterations of speech. Chaosdruid (talk) 16:00, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
((edit semi-protected))
Shan1631 (talk) 04:12, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
Added note to users talk page to explain that they did not leave a description of what it was they wanted changing. Chaosdruid (talk) 04:42, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
There is UTC+3 all year around: http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fkorrespondent.net%2Fukraine%2Fevents%2F1263384-ukraina-otkazalas-ot-perehoda-na-zimnee-vremya — Preceding unsigned comment added by SADM (talk • contribs) 12:49, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
Oops forgot it is summer time now.... I wonder how long "this timescale" will last though. It looks like an anti-EU integration measure from a Parliament who says it supports EU integration.... — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 15:45, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
I am a PhD student at Carnegie Mellon University researching ways to improve a reader’s understanding of Wikipedia history by putting it in context. I recently completed a prototype tool called ‘Pivot’ that brings edit history to the sentence level rather than line-by-line, edit-by-edit as the current interface does. As I continue development, I’d really like some feedback from active Wikipedians as to what works, what doesn’t, and how it might be used. Since one of the articles I've pre-processed is this one, I was wondering if any regulars would be willing to give it a quick look and give me some comments.
To use the prototype, you can visit this external links that layers the tool on top of the article: Kiev article tool
When you load the page, on the right hand side you’ll see four colored bars that match up with the scroll bar. These become more saturated if sentences in the region of the page have more edits (red), more contributors (yellow), a greater percentage of reverts (green), or were edited more recently (blue). Clicking on those bars will highlight the text, darkening sentences that have more edits, etc. so you can identify interesting areas to explore. Once you’ve picked out an interesting sentence, click on it to open up the history for that sentence. A new frame will pull open (some scrolling may be required thanks to a pernicious bug, sorry). In that frame you can see the most recent edit at the top of the list, and then previous edits going down into the past, along with editor names and comments. Words that have been added in an edit are highlighted in green. In turn, you can highlight the sentences that a contributor has made edits to in that window.
Would you be willing to give me some comments either through my talk page or an anonymous survey? I’m particularly interested in whether you think the tool helped you uncover the sorts of information I mentioned earlier, if you see any use for it in your daily editing tasks, and what you think could be improved. Are there particular situations that this tool would really help you out?
If you know of any other Wikipedians who might also be willing to help, I'd appreciate you linking them in. You can find out more about me on my user page and personal home page. I'm more than happy to talk more about this research on my talk page or by email, and thank you for your time. JeffRz (talk) 01:45, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |