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I have removed the reference to the Queen only having one paternal uncle and no aunts - two of her FOUR paternal uncles and an aunt were still living at the time of this surname's introduction. 195.188.40.144 (talk) 09:28, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
-Five. You forgot Prince John. JWULTRABLIZZARD (talk) 21:01, 16 January 2020 (UTC)
Searching for Mountbatten-Windsor goes direct to a wrong page for a different Windsor. Something has got cocked up but I don't know how to fix this.
2. I think what the article says is wrong. The surname M-W is not to be used for *all* descendants of the present Queen, but only those of minor lines. The 'Royal Highness' princes and princesses will continue to be surnamed Windsor. Here's a quote I found on another site http://www.etoile.co.uk/Muse/001221.html, confirming my belief. This is supposed to be a quote from the proclamation or some such. However, I haven't yet been able to validate this from a primary royal source. Still looking. But the Guinness Book of Answers, a source I trust greatly, concurs.
The reason Buckingham Palace is adamant is that they are struggling with cognitive dissonance, that is, the state of having inconsistent beliefs. What they are trying to do is reconcile the fact that all of Elizabeth’s descendants, including the HRH’s, consider themselves Mountbatten-Windsors when her 1960 declaration clearly states that the HRH's are not, but rather were to remain Windsors. They do this out of respect for Philip, who famously complained that he was the only man in the country who could not give his name to his children. The legal distinction of de jure (by the law) and de facto (by actual practice) comes into play. The HRH’s are Windsor de jure and Mountbatten-Windsor de facto. 2600:4040:5D38:1600:E14D:4C39:9FFF:E11D (talk) 17:43, 13 September 2022 (UTC)
--ScottyFLL 22:20, 12 September 2005 (UTC)
This quote from the Royal.gov.uk sites confuses me
"Unless The Prince of Wales chooses to alter the present decisions when he becomes king, he will continue to be of the House of Windsor and his grandchildren will use the surname Mountbatten-Windsor."
Can anyone clarify?
Thanks. I am particularly confused by which "grandchildren" of Prince Charles' would be affected if he didn't change the order. Surely not Prince William's children but perhaps Prince Harry's? Is that your understanding?
But any half-siblings of Princes William and Harry would still be a grandchild of the sovereign through Prince Charles and thus entitled to the same style and dignities as William and Harry.
Your 1917 date above is a typo but I understand this order to mean that Prince Harry's children (i.e. he is the second son of the Prince of Wales) would use M-W, since the Order does not mention great-grandchildren of the present sovereign. Also, if Prince William only has daughters, they would use M-W OR his first son would use Windsor and all other sons and daughters would use M-W. QE II's Order-in-Council has more to do with the use of the surname M-W and less to do with using the HRH, as I understand it.
Oops! The date was right, the name was wrong - I left out part of what I meant to say. 1917 was the date the name of "House of Windsor" was assumed (George V). The name was confirmed by Queen Elizabeth II in 1952: "The Queen today declared in Council her will and pleasure that she and her children shall be styled and known as the House and Family of Windsor, and that her descendants, other than female descendants who marry and their descendants, shall bear the name of Windsor." (In other words, she decided not to change house names, even though, with a female on the throne, most people would expect a change). In 1960, the decision was made to differentiate the Queen's progeny from those who also descended from George V, by proclaiming that all the queen's descendants who did not bear the "style, title or attribute of HRH, and the titular dignity of Prince or Princess" would bear the name of Mountbatten-Windsor. (Or to paraphrase, any of her descendants who had need of a surname should use Mountbatten-Windsor.). It's this latter that ties the use of a surname to the absence of an HRH. You're quite right that once Charles accedes his granddaughter would be able to use the HRH - but she wouldn't during the remainder of Elizabeth's reign, absent some grant of a right to do so. (Which actually make the royal.uk.gov site quote even more meaningless! Perhaps they just didn't have much to say <g>) - Nunh-huh 23:52, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
I have heard that the Queens intention was to make all her children (and therefore descendents) bear the name Mountbatten-Windsor, and she indicated that to the PM of the time. However the Order in Council only did what is referred to above - it made non HRH's and Princes Mountbatten-Windsors. I understand that the Royal Family 'thinks' its name is Mountbatten-Windsor, which is why they are all officially married as that. However legally they are still Windsors Ham21 22:31, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
The article states that Mountbatten-Windsor is "informally used by members of the Royal Family descended from Queen Elizabeth II as their surname, as shown at the marriages of the Duke of York and the Princess Royal, both having been registered with Mountbatten-Windsor in their entries in the marriage registers". However, is not a marriage register a formal document and thus a formal declaration?204.126.251.245 (talk) 20:58, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
I'm not sure of the significance of Prince Edward, Earl of Wessex, styling himself "Edward Wessex". I recall hearing the Queen introduce Prince Richard, Duke of Gloucester, to Lech Wałęsa, then President of Poland, as simply "Richard Gloucester".Hebbgd (talk) 17:50, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
It's common for royals to use the location that they're "of" in place of a surname. Edward's title is Earl of Wessex, and since receiving it he has used "Wessex" as a title. Similarly, Andrew, Beatrice, and Eugenie have used "York" as a surname (Andrew while in the military, the girls while in school), and William and Harry both used "Wales" as one during their respective schooling and military careers. Psunshine87 (talk) 10:21, 9 March 2014 (UTC)
I placed a "citation needed" tag at the end of the first sentence of the article, but I want to make it clear I am not questioning the first half of the sentence, which does have a source. I am questioning the statement that "Mountbatten-Windsor" is "a cadet branch of the House of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg..." Perhaps I should have used the "dubious" tag instead, because this statement does not seem correct. The article (in fact, the very next sentence) makes clear that Mountbatten-Windsor is not the name of the Royal Family or Royal House, it is merely a surname that can be (and is) used by some members of the House of Windsor. It is a little unusual because it is a surname and not a "family name" or "house name." That being the case, there is no "house" (or "family") of Mountbatten-Windsor, and therefore it cannot be a "branch" ("cadet" or otherwise) of a different house or family. Right? And this is leaving aside other issues, like whether the Schleswig etc. name, family, house etc. would still follow Prince Philip and his descendants around, given the fact that he changed his name long ago. Neutron (talk) 20:18, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
The section titled "Male-line descendants of Elizabeth II" seems to show several female-line descendants -- August Brooksbank, the Tindalls, and the Phillipses. Should they be removed? Powers T 14:09, 9 April 2021 (UTC)
Considering that, under English law, anyone is free to take whatever name he or she wants unless it is for farudulent purposes, could someone who is not a male-line descendant of the Queen use the name Mountbatten-Windsor?179.208.240.220 (talk) 17:49, 1 October 2021 (UTC)
The Queen's 1960 declaration very clearly states that Mounbatten-Windsor applies only to those not entitled to be styled HRH. Was Prince Charles styled HRH? Yes, therefore he was a Windsor, not a Mountbatten-Windsor. The fact that he considers himself, as do the others, a Mountbatten-Windsor is in deference to his father, the only man in Britain not allowed to give his children his name, as Philip famously complained. And you have to wonder if that isn't what Elizabeth hoped would happen, even though that's not how she stated it, specifically indicating the Royal House would remain Windsor.
Here's what the Royal website says: "It was therefore declared in the Privy Council [in 1960] that The Queen's descendants, other than those with the style of Royal Highness and the title of Prince/Princess, or female descendants who marry, would carry the name of Mountbatten-Windsor.
The effect of the declaration was that all The Queen's children, on occasions when they needed a surname, would have the surname Mountbatten-Windsor."
Bold is mine. These two statements contradict each other. It's that simple. The best way to explain the status quo is that those who are Windsor de jure are Mountbatten-Windsor de facto. 2600:4040:5D38:1600:9083:D031:9A6D:40AE (talk) 01:42, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
If the name is used for "male-line descendants of the Queen and Prince Philip", then doesn't that mean the royal house is now technically the House of Mountbatten-Windsor considering King Charles is a male-line descendant? 2A02:C7F:14B4:3400:41C:5BD9:6D44:355C (talk) 17:32, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
The page Succession to the British throne shows that two additional people in line to the thrown: Sienna Mapelli Mozzi (b. 2021) at position 10 and August Brooksbank (b. 2021) at position 12. Perhaps its a technicality that they don't have the surname Mountbatten-Windsor but surely they should be recognised within the chart at Mountbatten-Windsor#Male-line_descendants_of_Elizabeth_II_and_Philip. Sienna and August are still descendants of the Duke of York- they're his grandchildren no? The whole thing is confusing because it shows Anne as 14th in-line to the thrown, but her page says 16th. I'm sure there's stylistic or perhaps procedural technicalities due to lineage for presenting it this way but it is ultimately confusing for the lame/ordinary reader. >> Lil-unique1 (talk) — 22:20, 13 September 2022 (UTC)
Right; but they're not *male line* descendents of the late Queen and Duke of Edinburgh.JWULTRABLIZZARD (talk) 14:47, 12 February 2023 (UTC)
There are at least two references to the name Mountbatten-Windsor being used for only the male line, then elsewhere it states that HRH Princess Anne also uses the Mountbatten-Windsor name. which is correct? This needs to be updated in line with the correct use of the name. Dbridge276 (talk) 17:18, 17 September 2022 (UTC)
'Male line' means 'through males', not 'males only'. So a daughter would still use that name (just like a daughter traditionally does in the western world). Princess Anne, as the daughter of Prince Philip, used the double-barrelled name on her marriage register.
This is also why Lady Louise, the daughter of the Earl of Wessex,(Prince Edward), and Lilibet Mountbatten-Windsor, the daughter of the Duke and Duchess of Sussex (Prince Harry and Meghan Markle), also use that surname.
Think of it in the same way surnames get (traditionally) passed on in western culture: all of a man's children are born with their father's surname, but only the sons traditionally pass the surname on, the children of daughters will instead have their own father's surname.
That is what is meant by 'male line'.JWULTRABLIZZARD (talk) 15:00, 12 February 2023 (UTC)
There is an RfC on Talk:Charles III#RfC: Inclusion of "Agnatic house" which may relate to this article. Feel free to contribute. Estar8806 (talk) 03:01, 7 May 2023 (UTC)