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I originally wrote, "The instrumental break in the The Troggs's 1966 hit song "Wild Thing" contains an aggressive ocarina solo..."; Sonjaa deleted "aggressive". I don't think the deletion is merited; "aggressive" is not a purely subjective evaluation. "Wild Thing" is a primitivistic, proto-Punk song, and the ocarina break is played in that spirit. There might be a better adjective ("emphatic"? "rowdy"?), but please let's do better than a bare bland reference. --David Sewell 02:02, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
I listened to the song and didn't feel that the solo was "aggressive" at all. Maybe "rhythmic" or "lively" or something like that? What do others think?--Sonjaaa 11:34, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
I agree with Sonjaaa - it isn't really aggressive. I would say lively. Ck lostsword|queta! 17:57, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
No, "rhythmic" or "lively" sounds like a brisk gavotte or a nice little minuet. Aggressive - le mot juste. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.10.107.12 (talk) 03:03, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
I removed the following:
It seems to me that this is nothing but baseless conjecture and has no place in an encyclopedia.
1) Trying to describe coincidences that might or might not have occurred in prehistoric times is not history.
2) Even if this is did happen and happened only once (originating all ocarinas), or happened many times independently, why is it important? Even if it could be established to be the truth, what does it tell us about the ocarina? or about anything?
If anyone can provide a reference to meaningful academic discussion of broken pots, they should replace it.
TomViza 01:02, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
Right at the begining of the article it claims that the ocarina was invented by Shigeru Miyamoto. Can this be removed as it's a blatantly untrue.
The sweet potato is only one variety of ocarina, made popular by legend of zelda: ocarina of time. It is not synonmous with ocarinas in general.
Here is a better list:
I'll add a more detailed list into this article later on. Maybe tomorrow? Gliabrant 22:43, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
I clarified a statement, but want others to check it please! It says that one style of Ocarina is called the Sweet Potato. I looked through my materials and ocarina music and I see "sweet potato ocarina", which is what I changed it too. Otherwise some less-intelligent browser may think the term "sweet potato" means an instrument exclusively... or maybe I don't have enough faith in humanity?
Liastnir 05:37, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
Fans of video games tend to be devout to their supporting games, and not seeing their favorite game with ocarina appearance on the list makes them add it. The list has grown to a significant size -- too much for an ocarina article, I believe. I know that the list is never meant to be comprehensive, but I don't think that would convince the users who add the games. An incomplete list makes users want to add more to it, but since we can't let the list to grow forever, I am proposing to delete the list completely before the growing list gets out of hand; with the exception of The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time which has the instrument in its title and might be notable. But even so, we don't have to mention all of its roles. I think just "various magical tasks" would be fine. --朝彦 (Asahiko) 01:05, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
I think that it might be relavent to note that despite the relative obscurity of the Ocarina (That might be a mis-comment. It's obscure where I come from. anyway) it has appeared in a tremendous amount of video gamesJoeldipops 11:48, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
This article references "older boys". Older relative to what? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.189.175.230 (talk) 00:39, 10 December 2006
Ah, the curse of absolute relativity and bad vocabulary! "Older boy" is common English (US & UK both) parlance for a teenager. It doesn't require comparison. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.10.107.12 (talk) 03:05, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
It looks like this article is getting a little too cluttered with pictures. Maybe we could start to consider which ones should go/stay?Mikeg1179 22:01, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
i like ocarina-mateus
I think the Double and Triple ocarina must also be included.
They are a major part of ocarinas, and their advancement in modern music.
203.193.210.110 (talk) 16:48, 9 September 2008 (UTC)Samuel Lee
I worked on cleaning up and therefore re-organizing the article this evening. I removed some redundancies and re-categorized some things. Please look it over and carefully consider my changes. I think it looks a little better now. Thanks! -RobbyPrather (talk) 08:59, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
Is there any other work that needs to be done or any concern with article before removing the Cleanup tag? -Barkeep 20:47, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
Was it an ocarina being played in Pokemon 2000?Joeldipops 11:50, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
Do we really want to list every single occurrence when an ocarina shows up in some television show or video game? Some of them are somewhat trivial and the purpose of a "Ocarinas in popular culture" is to help people identify what an ocarina is and should be an occurrence that is familiar to the broader public. Barkeep Chat | $ 12:57, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
the tone is dependent on the ratio of the total surface area of opened holes to the total cubic volume
That is to say: f ~ A / V (?)
Does anyone know what the constant of proportionality is? If the formula I guessed is correct, it must be dimensionless m/s, and probably depends on the medium, which would normally be air. Considering the unit I guess the speed of sound in that medium will factor in. Shinobu 21:43, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
Also note that if you scale the ocarina so that its length is l, f ~ l² / l³ = 1 / l, so if we'd double the ocarina, the frequency would drop by one octave. Or you could go like: A ~ f V = l³ requiring relatively larger holes (by a factor of l). Shinobu 21:51, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
Okay, I found the answer. For the correct formula, see the article. Shinobu 23:28, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
The formula: cannot be right if is the shell thickness around the holes. According to this formula, my paper ocarina (with near zero) would blow microwaves. --Rick MILLER (talk) 14:03, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
" = shell thickness" above is misleading, or rather, misled. should be interpreted as sum of the "chimney correction" for each open hole, which is known in the acoustics of regular flutes. The shell thickness does matter, but is usually overshadowed by the length of the viscous air column above each hole. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.10.107.12 (talk) 02:57, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
Formulas for frequencies of instruments in terms of their physical properties are always approximate, as the physics of sound waves in restricted spaces is far too complex to allow the production of a simple formula. Thus, for example, the formula which I learnt at school for the frequency of a string instrument is based on a number of assumptions, such as that the tension in the string does not change as it moves away from its rest position. Likewise the usual formula for the frequency of a pipe ignores end effects, and to apply the same formula to a pipe with finger holes introduces further complications. Moreover, it must be perfectly clear to anyone with any experience of playing an ocarina that the usual pipe formula is totally inappropriate, despite the fact that the differences between an ocarina and a recorder are only quantitative: where do you draw the line? Yes, it is possible to produce quite simple reasons why any of these formulas cannot be exactly correct, but that does not invalidate the use of them as good approximations within a range of situations. For the majority of ocarinas treating them as Helmholtz resonators is a very good approximation; a paper ocarina is outside the usual range. I suggest it would be a good idea to restore the formula, but with an explanation of its limitations. Before doing so, though, I am explaining my thoughts on the matter to allow comments. JamesBWatson (talk) 19:12, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
This article needs more information on the various fingerings (John Taylor, modern Japanese, ...) and the mathematics behind them. Shinobu 00:35, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
I have deleted the two sections "Appearance in works" and "Ocarinas in popular culture". While I personally love watching the scene where Totoro plays an ocarina, these sections have been easy targets of crufty listings, where a user adds his/her favorite video game to the list because ocarina makes an appearance in them, one of the character uses it, etc. It is clear that this kind of trivial lists do not add to the encyclopedia article on ocarina; it contained many subjective statements like "a memorable part in the movie..." or "featured prominently..."; and it distracts readers from understanding about the instruments itself IMO. If you think I have make the article worse by deleting it, I wouldn't object to bringing it back provided that you avoid making it into a list and properly cite sources (preferrably a secondary source that mentions ocarina as a musical instrument, not merely a minor plot device). --朝彦 (Asahiko) 05:49, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
Could someone add some information about nose-bending? I would, only I have no idea how it works, but its certainly effective and gives my ocarina a greater range. Francis Davey (talk) 17:55, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
I've removed the detail of the range of the Ocarina in the Zelda game, as it is unsourced, and has to be untrue. It stated that the ocarina ranged from B to F, but this cannot be the case, as the notes corresponding to UpC and A on the controller are an octave apart, and the player can extend this to one semitone more on either side with the analog stick, for a total of 15 semitones. Further, the game itself, which plays extended versions of the songs, sometimes plays outside the player's range, up to six semitones above the player for Zelda's Lullaby, for a total of 21 semitones. Some extra ones are added on the bottom for the Nocturne of Shadow, but not so many as to push the ocarina's rage up to three-and-a-half octaves. In any case, the range doesn't fit for B to F, though I have no source which says what it actually is. Reveilled (talk) 18:03, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
I removed recent history, as it really only has three things in it. One is a reference to 1900, if you can consider 108 years ago "recent" history. The other one was an entry with a bunch of 'citation needed" tags on it, so removed that. That left pretty much zelda which would just be misplaced. That brings me to the other edit; I removed the "see also" in ocarina of time, as this is a music article on an instrument and to lead to an article on a video game is ridiculous. I do not think the fact that most people relate ocarina's to ONE video game as a reason to infringe on actual content on the ocarina; its selective and unencyclopedic. Articles are meant to cover their subject and to inform people content on that subject, not reinforce people's only knowledge on that subject through an unrelated subject. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.76.60.163 (talk) 20:04, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
I understand that a mention of The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time on this page could potentially lead to an increase in cruft, but I don't think it should be ignored. The game is the only reason a lot of people know what an ocarina is, and it brought the instrument into focus more than it usually is these days. Some have said we can't cite these ideas, but the fact is, one of the sources already cited in this article mentions it:
"With the release of the popular video game “The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time” in the 1990s, the ocarina has reached a new level of popularity in America and Europe." --http://www.stlocarina.com/ocarina-history.html
As that and many other sources show, there have been many ocarinas produced based on those in the game, and books written on how to play songs from the game on a real Ocarina. To deny the game's impact on the popularity of the ocarina would be to ignore a significant aspect of the instrument's history. As such, I have added a reference where I believe it is appropriate. If you disagree, please post your reasons here instead of just reverting the edit. Thank you. --Unknownwarrior33 (talk) 21:17, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
Today I found a reference to "The Legend of Zelda" which was very poor: firstly it was placed in the section "Budrio, Italy", and secondly the language in which it was written was poor. It said that The Legend of Zelda "caused a rucus". A search reveals that rucus is an acronym for Rhodes University Computer Users Society, for Reducing Unwanted Communication Using SIP Skills Society, for REG-Reporter User Community of the United States, the name of a company selling "collectibles", etc etc, none of which makes sense here. Probably an error for Ruckus, but I don't feel that is appropriate. I considered simply deleting the sentence, but decided instead to rewrite and move it, for 2 reasons. Firstly, the above discussion seems to indicate general support for some brief mention. Secondly I thought that putting in a brief mention properly written might reduce the risk of further inappropriate additions by editors of limited skill. If anyone wishes to improve on my version that is fine, but I suggest not leaving it out altogether. JamesBWatson (talk) 13:54, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
JamesBWatson (talk) 15:17, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
None of the following links seem to fit into our external link guidelines I have moved them here for discussion to see if WP:CONSENSUS provides otherwise for any of the links. -- The Red Pen of Doom 21:26, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
Ocarina born in Italy when Donati invented it, around the 19th century. Before that, the Ocarina didn't exist. We cannot write bullshits such as: "Both the Mayans and Aztecs had produced versions of the ocarina, but it was the Aztecs who brought the song and dance that accompanied the ocarina to Europe. The ocarina went on to become popular in European communities as a toy instrument.". That is disinformation. In addition, I let you know that in the Mediterranean lands similar instruments and toys existed ever since the VII millenniums BCE, and the same Sardinians, Egyptians, Etruscans, Greeks and Romans had flutes of different size, shape and material (terracotta, bone, ivory, wood, reed etc.) such as fistulas and so on. But they were not versions of the Ocarina. As I wrote, the Ocarina was invented by Donati. --Karanko 02:53, 7 Jan 2009 (UTC)
(See also the discussion above) The claim was made until my recent edit that the Ocarina is 15000 years old. The citation to back up this claim that the Ocarina is 12000 years old, so I corrected the article to that effect. That particular citation isn't very good though - it's very short and doesn't back up *its* sources. There are several other references, with rather divergent claims. Some of these are by people who sell the instruments. Given that this is a relatively unknown musical instrument, I can see there being some motivation to exaggerate claims of antiquity. Any academic paper we can refer to? I do propose severely toning down the claims of antiquity until more solid sources can be found. Martijn Faassen (talk) 18:43, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
Merely creating a place for discussion. The proposal was made by Caerwine in July 2008 (dif & dif). - Ev (talk) 21:17, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
While the article is very informative and goes into the history and design of the ocarina, I can't help but think that it needs a reference to Legend of Zelda. In popular culture, the ocarina is known little, if at all, outside of the fact that Link plays it. There seems to be some sort of collaboration amongst editors to keep any reference to the Ocarina of Time off this page. Obviously, there is at least some justification behind not further reinforcing a pop-culture stereotype about an instrument.
I must reccomend however, that a mention be given to the video game popularizing the instrument. It is common for ocarina manufacturers to produce replicas of the ocarina of time. The game also contributes to a lack of knowledge as to ocarina designs other than the sweet potato.
If you feel that such a mention affects the integrity of the article, feel free to include a sourced remark resenting the undue weight the video games carries when discussing an ocarina.
Also, please do not remove sourced content without first challenging it; I may be wrong, however when reading over the talk page it appears that sourced content has been introduced and arbitrarily removed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.66.191.116 (talk) 20:04, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
Can someone include this in the article, or at least include it in the article on the Xun? Ailes Grises (talk) 22:40, 15 January 2012 (UTC)