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Anyone know why he was denied to wear makeup? Also, who wrote this article? I looked for information on him no less than 4 weeks ago and there was no wikipedia article on him. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.7.176.134 (talk • contribs)
Above post raises a great question... Anyway, this article is fairly light-weight for a serial killer thats well known in Melbourne, if not Australia. Beef it up, someone! (I cant) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.219.255.133 (talk) 06:47, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
As mentioned above, this page seems rather short on some critical information. When was he arrested? When/where was the trial? The timeline information that is provided seems confusing without this information.G.turner (talk) 00:48, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
Image:Thefrankstonmurders.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot 03:12, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
I deleted the "Online letter auction" section because it was not encyclopedic. Serial killer merchandise is sold all the time. That doesn't make it appropriate for a Wiki article. See Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not. --*momoricks* (talk) 12:02, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
"Denyer is a member of the first Australian-generation." He's a first generation Australian? So what? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.218.35.144 (talk) 10:43, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
Paul Denyer hated women, he brutally murdered women and I object strongly to the use of female gender for him here, when prison officials have denied him gender reassignment and such. It's just a slap in the face to all the women he killed, and those he terrorized as well.
This is nothing to do with being politically correct, or gender issues in general. It's about not giving this murdering freak what he wants, and so I would like to see the gender stuff reverted to male. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ausgirl123 (talk • contribs) 03:19, 26 October 2013 (UTC)
"In recent years, Denyer - previously incarcerated at Barwon Prison - has been unsuccessful in bids to wear make-up in jail, have a taxpayer-funded sex change and formally alter his name by deed poll to Paula."so "deed poll" should remain in the article unless an alternative source is found. The reference does not say why he was unsuccessful - perhaps it was because that has not been the process since 1986. --Scott Davis Talk 10:22, 12 November 2017 (UTC)
The MoS is broken on this issue. It should really be the same as WP:NAMECHANGES. Jenks24 (talk) 09:35, 12 November 2017 (UTC)
This made Denyer angry, and she slashed at her head and neck.is hard to read. The assailant was a male and identified as such. Calling the attacker "she" in Wikipedia is inconsistent with the sources at the time. She was arrested and tried as a male, and some time later has attempted to change identity. This person would not be notable if they had not committed those crimes, and quietly went about their life in the community, with either gender. Does Port Phillip Prison accommodate female prisoners, or only males? Is Denyer in a female or male section? This could need explanation if the prison article answered that question as male-only. --Scott Davis Talk 10:22, 12 November 2017 (UTC)
I am disgusted and offended to see the identity in this article and it MUST be changed. He IS man. He is no more a woman than i am a box. Usual politically correct GARBAGE. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.168.134.23 (talk) 07:23, 23 October 2018 (UTC)
@Mitch Ames: Denyer is notable for crimes committed as "the Frankston Serial Killer". His personal life beyond those crimes is not notable and should not be reported on Wikipedia. Gender ID guidelines do not apply in this case because there is no ongoing notability. Jj flash (talk) 23:32, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
- Any person whose gender might be questioned should be referred to by the pronouns, possessive adjectives, ... that reflect that person's latest expressed gender self-identification. This applies in references to any phase of that person's life, ...
Just read the Paul Denyer article - have to say it’s extremely confusing, he was a man when he committed offences. I understand and largely agree with the gendered pronoun guidelines but this article reads terribly because of it. AlbyMangels100 (talk) 10:12, 4 January 2019 (UTC)
Either way, the name Paula should still be changed back to Paul. Since the MOS:GENDERID doesn’t include calling a person different name because they identify with that name now. Paul is a proper noun, not a grammatically gendered noun. Notyourcupotea (talk) 22:49, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
Since she was male at the time of committing the killings, conviction, sentencing and imprisonment, She shouldn't fall under the category of Female Serial Killers. An egg hatches into a chicken, but you wouldn't file an egg under the category of "Chicken Wings" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.185.115.98 (talk) 22:57, 3 December 2017 (UTC)
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He has not legally changed his name. He has not transitioned. He is Paul. Period. Rippingbracelet (talk) 16:55, 24 February 2020 (UTC)
I completely agreed. It’s Paul, this article is far too left without grounds to actual facts. His name is Paul. You can’t start changing names of criminals just because they identify with a different name. Notyourcupotea (talk) 22:35, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
'far too left'- I think that your perception could possibly be the actual intention for this... from what I gathered from reading past discussions, the only sources other than Wikipedia that refer to this person in this manner that Wikipedia does are extreme RIGHT-wing publications. For what agenda I cannot speculate. But this article seems to be a ground zero for subversive WP:GAMIMG activity. =\ Firejuggler86 (talk) 00:14, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
Reason for request is that this is a form of a victim blaming. This path is a normal path used by students who attend JPC and locals walking around their area, at least it was in the 90's. It was used by the school for students to walk to the school swin carnival. It is not an out of the way track in bushland. The golf course sits in the middle of a suburb. There were no instructions to change your walking route home at the time. So I don't see information this as relevant to how she died and implies that her actions contributed to her own murder which they did not. Please update this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by BAC Plumridge (talk • contribs) 02:29, 23 September 2020 (UTC)
Can this please be revised as it is victim blaming. It implies that she increased her chances of being attacked by choosing her normal route home. Can the word 'despite' please be removed and changed to "At the time there was media speculation, heightened public fear, and warnings from her school." Then commence the rest of the sentence as a new sentence. There was not an alternative route for her to walk that any student would have used. The alternate routes in that area would have meant walking a significant amount of extra time and would not necessarily have been deemed safer. The other victims were taken from far more public and accessible places. I do not believe a podcast is sufficient evidence of this increasing her chances of being attacked which is implied by that sentence. BAC Plumridge (talk) 06:37, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
Updated language to remove implication of victim blaming while primary source is checked.Very neant (talk) 11:45, 23 February 2022 (UTC)
Denyer's potential availability for parole in 2023 was discussed in the Vic parliament recently. The MP asking the question of the govt (David Limbrick) referred to him as Paul Denyer. In her response, the Victorian Attorney General referred to "Mr Denyer." Facebook video of parliamentary proceedings here: https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=876315283247607&extid=NS-UNK-UNK-UNK-IOS_GK0T-GK1C&ref=sharing Anyone pushing some WP bureaucratic nonsense that Denyer should be referred to as female is putting ideology ahead of what is (a) factually correct, and (b) morally correct. 124.170.120.47 (talk) 17:14, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
Further to this, Denyer no longer identifies as female. The author of this nine part podcast is a thoroughly fact-checked author Vikki Petraitis who has confirmed this with many sources in the prison Denyer is incarcerated within.
Source: https://open.spotify.com/episode/6mgbcI4eYXRI4O5ANkJuoY?go=1&sp_cid=9f28158da841ec904bcff4ce46ceb181&t=1&utm_source=embed_player_p&utm_medium=desktop&nd=1 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Such-change47 (talk • contribs) 21:59, 7 December 2021 (UTC)
User:C.Fred and Nil Einne, the podcast Timestamp is 1:40. It is one of the first things mentioned in a nine part series. I do not use random podcasts as sources. The author of this Spotify exclusive commissioned series is Vikki Petraitis, who has written 15 books, including editions on the life and crimes of Paul Denyer. The entire podcast is 40,000 words long, and includes interviews with the parents of Sarah Macdiarmid, transcripts of a Coronial Inquest, and documents such as police statements and police files obtained by Petraitis. You will not see me randomly changing the pronouns of Caitlyn Jenner just because I heard a whisper somewhere that she is no longer identifying as a woman. This is a serial killer who at one stage wished to be addressed as Paula. This person is behind bars serving an indefinite sentence without access to the internet. Vikki has confirmed by speaking to multiple people who served time with Paul about his identity. This constant editing of my contributions when I am a lawyer and criminologist who has spent dozens of hours researching for research papers on Denyer and his crimes seems rather bizarre. You are doing an incredible disservice to trans people who's legitimate identities are devalued by the use of female pronouns on a male who does not identify as a woman. You will actually find no evidence from Paul Denyer himself that he ever identified as female, only speculation in the media. At no time was Denyers name changed on government documents and he is serving time in Port Phillip Prison, maximum security male prison. Much of this article does not read properly due to the use of different pronouns, is factually incorrect, and confusing to readers. With all of the transphobic vandalism that occurs here, I find it extremely odd that experienced users seem insistent on devoting resources to debate whether or not someone who cut the throat of three women should be referred to as female. Not only does Denyer not identify as a woman, making the use of these pronouns factually incorrect, I think its pretty demeaning to the trans cause to say it causes their community 'harm'. I doubt anyone cares. Such-change47 (talk) 06:32, 8 December 2021 (UTC)
Such-change47 please take a read of MOS:GENDERID and WP:BLP.
In short, we don't care whether governments fail to recognise someone's gender identity. Many governments do not for a variety of reasons. The thing which matters to us is whether the subject has clearly expressed a gender identity. In some circumstances if sufficient sources have disputed the sincerity of someone expressed gender identity, it's possible we may mention this but even if we do, we still write the article according to the latest expressed gender identity. And even for people who aren't in prison, this generally comes from what reliable secondary sources have reported the person has said. If a reliable secondary source has reported what someone has said about their gender identity, this isn't "speculation". We generally prefer what reliable secondary sources have said about what someone has said rather than relying on what the person said directly per WP:ABOUTSELF etc.
Nothing you've said seems to dispute that the podcast is a self published source and therefore cannot be used for claims about other living persons. (Note that this would likely include Sarah Macdiarmid, and of her family and friends who are still alive, anyone involved in the investigation etc who is still alive, and any identifiable people accused of possible involvement in her diappearance who are either still alive or may be still alive.) The fact that the subject of this article may be a horrible person does not affect our policy. While there would be a lot we can say about them which will be very negative and will be included in the article, we cannot include information (positive, negative or neutral) if there isn't sufficient sourcing. This includes about their gender identity.
And I never said anything about causing any community harm. I only referred to causing the subject harm. BLP first and foremost is about avoiding harm to all living persons by what we say about them, ensuring it's properly sourced and should be covered. As already mention, this does include serial killers and other not nice people. If you aren't willing to accept that, please refrain from editing any content which concerns living persons. While I find it very wrong that the subject has claimed their gender dysphobia lead to their crimes, when it comes to writing articles I accept I cannot exclude information just because I find it distasteful. What matters is the level of coverage in reliable secondary sources and other issues from our policies and guidelines which dictate what we should cover.
Nil Einne (talk) 07:11, 8 December 2021 (UTC)
"Paul Denya spent a number of years identifying as a woman, during which he was known as Paula. Several sources have since advised that he no longer identifies as a woman, and uses the name Paul again."Given the questionable reliability of the source, the fact that it's the only source making this claim, and the dearth of actual information given by the source, the best call here is to stick with the most recent reliably sourced gender preference. Firefangledfeathers 14:19, 8 December 2021 (UTC)
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In 2012, Denyer was questioned over four rapes of vulnerable prisoners in Denyer's prison cell. Denyer was accused of offering them a massage before raping them. As they were vulnerable and had special needs it was difficult to get their statements.
Denyer gave evidence about these rapes via video link and refused to look at the camera.1
Evidence at court by a psychiatrist and psychologist stated that Denyer had a
'Sadistic Personality Disorder' and
'The applicant obtained much satisfaction from the mutilation, humiliation, and killing of others.'
Sources: 1 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-05-08/serial-killer-questioned-over-alleged-prison-rape/3998134
2 The Frankston Serial Killer By Vikki Petraitis Chapter 37 125.168.228.22 (talk) 21:39, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. PianoDan (talk) 22:07, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
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For the media section, you can add the documentary "Forensic Investigators Episode 1 Series 1 2004". Paul Denyer https://g.co/kgs/9B31FN Ajthunter (talk) 16:09, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
Ajthunter Ajthunter (talk) 16:10, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
((edit semi-protected))
template. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 18:44, 12 April 2022 (UTC)![]() | This edit request to Paula Denyer has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Use correct male pronouns for Paul Denyer 2A01:4B00:A80E:5100:F4D1:953C:6C39:6189 (talk) 05:55, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
Denyer is variously referred to as both a male and a female throughout this article. Sometimes the same sentence or consecutive sentences will switch Denver's pronouns. This is confusing for readers.
I understand Denyer's current gender identity is subject to some degree of uncertainty. I do not know what Wikipedia's policy is on post-transition identification. However, there should surely be consistency in the use of Denyer's pronouns. Certainly, when Denyer committed his or her crimes, Denyer identified as a male. 49.179.91.87 (talk) 07:54, 20 July 2022 (UTC)
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Change "date apprehended" to 31 July 1993. Paul Denyer was apprehended on 31 July 1993 not 31 March 1994. The date listed at the top of this article is incorrect but is correct in the section titled "Investigation". Source: The Frankston Murders: 25 years on by Vicki Petraitis. Pkcw197 (talk) 23:52, 20 July 2022 (UTC)
Since the new Stan doco says he's reverted to male, I've gone through and changed all his pronouns to masculine Balaga Xx (talk) 02:25, 9 August 2022 (UTC)
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The first known incident attributed to Denyer occurred in February 1993, when Donna Vanes' Claude Street unit in Seaford was broken into.[10] After an anonymous threatening call, Vanes was fearful of being alone.[9] Vanes asked her boyfriend to take her and their newborn --Lavachik (talk) 04:33, 23 April 2023 (UTC)baby out while he delivered pizzas--Lavachik (talk) 04:33, 23 April 2023 (UTC).[9]
After being out for approximately an hour, Vanes--Lavachik (talk) 04:33, 23 April 2023 (UTC) returned to the unit with her boyfriend. After seeing blood on the floor and that one of the cats was dead, the police were called. A police officer arrived and discovered the cat had been slaughtered with its intestines strewn across the floor and its eyes removed (source?)--Lavachik (talk) 04:33, 23 April 2023 (UTC) A pornographic image had been placed on its body.[9] Written in the cats blood above a stove were the words "Donna you're dead"[10][11] In the bathroom, police found Vanes'--Lavachik (talk) 04:33, 23 April 2023 (UTC) two kittens also slaughtered with their throats cut floating in the bath. Shaving cream had been sprayed over a mirror in the bedroom and more pornographic images had been posted over a wardrobe. These images had been slashed, as had other furniture. The intruder had also placed a pornographic image inside the crib of Vanes' --Lavachik (talk) 04:33, 23 April 2023 (UTC)baby which had also been slashed.[9]
Unwilling to stay at the unit, she moved in with her sister, who was living in the unit next to Denyer, and whose neighbour had also recently been the victim of a break-in slasher.[9] After Denyer's subsequent arrest, he admitted to police he was responsible for the break-in, vandalism, and murdering Vanes'--Lavachik (talk) 04:33, 23 April 2023 (UTC) cats. Denyer also stated to police that had Vanes been home, he'd have--Lavachik (talk) 04:33, 23 April 2023 (UTC) murdered her also.[11] Lavachik (talk) 04:33, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
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In the section ‘Break-in and killing of animals’ the last line reads ‘…he’d of murdered her also.’ That should read ‘he’d have murdered her also.’
Grammatically, ‘he’d of’ makes no sense and is well below acceptable standard. 106.71.63.3 (talk) 07:06, 10 May 2023 (UTC)
Paul Denyer is named in new Victorian legislation... https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-31/frankston-serial-killer-paul-denyer-law-prison-parole/103043948 220.240.147.159 (talk) 23:38, 1 November 2023 (UTC)