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This article is the subject of an educational assignment at Ball State University supported by Various group research topics and the Wikipedia Ambassador Program during the 2011 Q3 term. Further details are available on the course page.
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on 14:55, 7 January 2023 (UTC)
I am working on developing a Philosophy section for the Sith. This will explain a little bit more in depth about the Sith and the philosophy behind it. 00:11, 19 November 2011 (UTC)AbbyDMiller (talk) 00:11, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
I am working on the genealogy of the Sith both as they appear in the Expanded Universe and in Mass Media.Rrbray (talk) 02:01, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
I'm currently working on expanding the information that is available for the Expanded Universe section of this article-Kgaribay —Preceding undated comment added 23:03, 17 November 2011 (UTC).
We intend to do it in Four parts, opening with an explanation of the sith in the context of ficitional characters. Then an explanation of the sith as they are in the universe from various sources. Philosophy of the sith and a list of the sith included supplementally. Shawna —Preceding undated comment added 18:00, 16 November 2011 (UTC).
The history may make it look like we scrapped the old article, however a ton of stuff was wrapped up in from it and some of it, like the beginnings we are keeping verbatim. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ShawnaV (talk • contribs) 22:58, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
I've added the rewrite tag and taken away two of the unreferenced tags for a number of reasons.
That should take care of most of it - have fun. :) 24.6.65.83 05:38, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
Heya, we're going to work on this for a class project. We intend to update the sources and arrange it encyclopedically. We've got some high standards to meet. Thanks for listing all the problems this will be a great help. Anyone mind? I'm guessing no since no one has been here since Aught7 Shawna —Preceding undated comment added 22:14, 8 November 2011 (UTC).
This article needs citation, and badly. I would hate to have to begin removing unreferenced statements, as I think it would leave the article an essentially empty page. Therefore, we should wait about a week, to see if some citation work (remember, reliable, verifiable, non-OR references, please) begins making its way into the article. If the article doesn't get more citable, we will have to start removing uncited statements. - Arcayne (cast a spell) 18:19, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
In the previous section, I noted that I agreed that the article needed re-writing badly. I also said that if statemetns weren't cited, they would be removed. Since that date, a half-dozen edits were performed, none of them addign a single citation. Since no one has commented about the call for citations, i must presume that a desire for citation appears to be secondary to explaining the psychologu of a fictional order.
At midnight CST, uncited information will be removed. - Arcayne (cast a spell) 19:50, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
You can't delete the entire article - even if it contains uncited material. Add a rewrite tag and a citations needed tag and eventually an 'expert' might sort it out. Don't delete half the article and just leave a few disjointed paragraphs. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.137.90.10 (talk) 16:31, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
Well, I would entreat you to please cite the material removed and re-add it with reliable, noteworthy and verifiable citation. It isn't going back into the article without it. It would be unencyclopedic to do so. Remember, this isn't Wookiepedia. - Arcayne (cast a spell) 03:18, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
Since Star Wars is composed of multiple media (films, novels, video games, newspaper comics, comic books), it might be helpful to distinguish the contributions of each of these media to the understanding, development and evolution of the Sith. I am aware that canonicity is going to color these views, and we should probably note that outside of the films, nothing is canon (which certainly affects its notability). Thoughts? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Arcayne (talk • contribs) 10:03, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
If you are going to write about the "Star Wars universe", and not just the filmed trilogies, show some background. This article should be completely rewritten.
The Sith are not counterparts of the Jedi nor are they Dark Jedi, but are of a far older order, and I don't think they can be described as a cult being that there are always only two: the Master and the Student. They are the Sith; not Jedi.
For a long time they were assumed to have been abolished, but the story I read revealed the Sith Temple.
"Star Wars: Darth Bane: Path of Destruction" "Star Wars: Darth Bane: Rule of Two" —Preceding unsigned comment added by Xetheare (talk • contribs) 16:19, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
Hi, everybody! I need some help. Please, would you tell me, what is the correct pronunciation of Sith: [sɪθ] or [sɪt]? Or anything else? Thank you! - Gaja from Hungarian Wikipedia —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.134.59.200 (talk) 15:57, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
[sɪθ] is correct.24.235.158.206 (talk) 00:08, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
Well a good cite for that is the official star wars databank: Little did anyone suspect how Palpatine had engineered his own rise to power. Hidden beneath a façade of wan smiles and smooth political speeches was a Sith Lord. Q T C 05:22, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
Both the images have sources attached. So please stop removing them Jasca Ducato (talk) 18:52, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
I have just had to re-edit this article again to remove in universe material. Please stop writing about this subject as if it were something that existed in the real world. (Ex: "fictional dark side Force users". What the hell is that supposed to mean?) That kind of stuff is what Wookiepedia is for. Treybien 12:53 20 February 2008 (UTC)
> The predations of Gay Sidious <
I don't think there was that much political correctness stuffed into the SW saga! 91.83.15.125 (talk) 21:39, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
Rule of Two should be merged into this article. The Rule of Two as a topic exists completely subordinate to this topic and in no way deserves its own article.67.159.78.196 (talk) 18:47, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
"In the comic books series Star Wars: Legacy, set 130 years after Return of the Jedi, the Sith (led by former Jedi A'Sharad Hett, now Darth Krayt) once again decimate the Jedi and take control of the galaxy." I have not read this comic, but the suggestion of this line is that the Jedi were almost wiped out, where as decimate means to kill one in every ten. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Onepat (talk • contribs) 09:08, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
At the end of the "Return of the Jedi", Vader kills Palpatine, although he gets mortally wounded. Yes, he is redeemed, but wouldn't the act of killing Palpatine (the incumbent Sith Master) technically make Vader/Anakin Skywalker a Sith Master as well? (Note: I'm pretty sure who his first candidate for an apprentice would've been had he still been intoxicated with the Dark Side at the time of Palpatine's overthrow: Luke Skywalker (a hint he drops during a lightsaber duel - an invitation to rule the galaxy together). Luke refused that invitation, and I think he'd have refused apprenticehood, too. 204.52.215.107 (talk) 19:23, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
is general grievous considered a sith? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.100.154.19 (talk) 02:09, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
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General Grievous is considered a Dark Jedi (I think) ~EgyptKEW9~ — Preceding unsigned comment added by EgyptKEW9 (talk • contribs) 16:26, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
Interesting how in Norse folklore (which was heavily used in LOTR as well) there are two forms of magic, Galdr used by Goði (c.f. Jedi), the good masculine magic, and Seiðr or Sið (in Old English) the dark or womanly magic. Note ("ð") is a voiced "th" sound. 216.227.115.137 (talk) 07:24, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
And remember that the Irish and Scottish Fairies and not the English tiny winged creatures who dance among flowers, they are dark sinister and malicious human like beings who steal children and poison cattle. Wmck (talk) 10:34, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
In chapter "Depiction" why is the prequel trilogy before the original trilogy? The original trilogy depicted things first. Please, stop using in-world logic! 80.98.146.68 (talk) 14:24, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
Could this word relate to Seth, the god of darkness and chaos in ancient Egypt and Greece? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.36.196.6 (talk) 20:07, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
Don't you mean Set? Not Seth? I've never heard of any Egyptian mythological god/goddess called Seth, please do try to back yourself up on this. EgyptKEW9 14:40, 19 December 2012 (UTC)EgyptKEW9EgyptKEW9 14:40, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
what does "darth" mean? where does it come from?--85.104.73.207 (talk) 10:50, 11 November 2012 (UTC)
The list of "notable" Sith characters includes a lot of entries that seem not to be notable in the real word. This is creeping into quite a bit of listcruft. Any objection to me seriously condensing? --EEMIV (talk) 17:45, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
I removed the image of Darth Maul from the top of the article. I'd done it a little while ago, with the restoring editor citing the picture as illustrative of what a Sith looks like. However, the article lacks any discussion about that particular example, or a general discussion about Sithy appearance. I pointed this out on the restoring editor's talk page, but that hasn't evinced any change to the article; the image still fails WP:NFCC #8, so I've again taken it out. --EEMIV (talk) 10:42, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
Imho this section should be expanded. This is how the rule of Two works in detail:
- There is always a master and an apprentice.
- The master selects a candidate for apprenticeship with the help of The Force. The master then tests the candidate and if he finds him unworthy, he will kill him (Darth Sidious sometimes trains candidates, who are not suitable for becoming apprentices to Dark Jedi, but it I am not sure if this is a violation of the Rule of Two or not). If the master thinks that the candidate is the best choice for a new apprentice, he will make him his apprentice.
- The master teaches his apprentice everything he knows and the apprentice obey every oder of his master. If the master finds a better apprentice, he kills his current apprentice.
- At some time, the apprentice becomes stronger than the aging master, kills the master and becomes the new master. The whole cycle starts again.
--MrBurns (talk) 16:22, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
As with many if not most Star Wars articles, much of this article seems to have been written by those intimately familiar with the films themselves. While such material is accurate and verifiable, it's not ideally what we want in an encyclopedia. What is needed is material that is taken from reliable secondary sources and attributed to them.
In theory this material could be summarily removed, but I do not recommend this as it would be to the detriment of Wikipedia. The content is valuable and should be retained. What is needed is painstaking research to adequately source the material. Andrewa (talk) 14:17, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
You know, even a tiny bit of out of universe information would be useful here. I wanted to find out what the first published use (in our universe) of the term "Sith" was, and particularly whether it ever appeared in the original trilogy. I don't believe there's anything about that here. We do get lots of details of expanded universe novels nobody cares about, though! So hurray for that. john k (talk) 21:32, 22 December 2015 (UTC)
In the opening paragraph of the article, it is said that the Banite Sith Order, the order we see in the original and prequel trilogies, "lasted 1000 years BBY (Before the Battle of Yavin)." What does that sentence mean? Does it mean that it started 1000 years prior to the Battle of Yavin, making it last a little over 1000 years when it ended, or did it last 1000 years, starting, then, some 900 or something years BBY? 83.242.29.37 (talk) 01:44, 1 February 2016 (UTC)
OK, maybe there is something I am missing here, but how do the Jedi or the Sith count as "Fictional educational institutions"? I mean yes, there is the mentor/student relationship between the Masters and apprentices and you do have one scene of Yoda teaching the younglings, but does that make the Jedi or the Seth educational institutions? It seems more like the old guild system of a master craftsman and his younger apprentice, and the "training" seems to take place as they go about doing their jobs. If a page was created for the Jedi Academy, which I think was featured in some of the Extended Universe material, then I think that would be appropriate to put in that category.--Bellerophon5685 (talk) 23:15, 12 April 2016 (UTC)
In this edit Aledownload added chronological order to the section head, but the following list is manifestly not in storyline chronological order. Does the claim of chronological order constitute original research? —jmcgnh(talk) (contribs) 15:04, 26 July 2016 (UTC)
As contributors have said for years, the page is badly in need of a rewrite and some reorganization. There are different ways the topic could be structured, but I think one reasonable, rough division would be as follows: 1) A general introduction to the Sith - basic history, characteristics, narrative role. 2) Some breakdown of details about the Sith in Star Wars media (maybe by canon source, e.g., SW films, other "official" media, SW EU). I and others have been tweaking the lead section, and I just contributed a new overview section. I tried to keep only the basic details common to SW media generally - hopefully someone can fact check. This overview needs more editing, but I think it's something decent to work with as a starting point. Not (talk) 00:40, 10 September 2016 (UTC)
Reorganization under way. Made some edits and moved some sections around per the rough structure suggested above. Will begin adding cites for the overview when I have the time. I have little-to-no knowledge about the EU, so hopefully someone knowledgable can help out on editing/citing that stuff.Not (talk) 01:50, 10 September 2016 (UTC)
RE: "Legends" media - any opinions as to how much detail we want on EU, etc. stuff? My thought is that we currently have far too many specific details from "legends"-type media for a general interest Wikipedia article. In my opinion, that kind of fine-grained info would probably be more appropriate on Wookieepedia or some such. I think a single section (maybe a paragraph or two) summarizing highlights from the alternative Sith history provided in the EU would be appropriate. Any thoughts? If there are no contrary opinions I'm going to start heavily summarizing/editing this stuff down in about a week or so. Would also welcome opinions on retaining/cutting any other details, like "Appearances (chronological order)." Not (talk) 04:27, 12 September 2016 (UTC)
I just contributed a complete rewrite of the EU material which heavily summarizes the original content. I think this new level of detail is more in keeping with a general interest article.Not (talk) 18:26, 15 September 2016 (UTC)
Lots of progress recently: I think the next two main steps are 1) editing the "affiliated characters" and "in popular culture" sections for tone, and 2) inserting citations, especially in the early Sith history section. After that is done, the article should be in a basically "acceptable" condition. Not (talk) 03:36, 16 September 2016 (UTC)
This is probably beyond the ambit of the article, but I think it's interesting to note that the Sith are a potentially good fictional example to distinguish ethics and morality. On one common distinction, ethics concerns the justification of action by reference to an internal code of behavior, whereas morality judges the rightness of actions based on social norms. The Sith have a philosophical framework that "justifies" their ruthless and self-serving actions, but their agenda would still be considered appalling by society in general. Darth Sidious, the archetypical Sith, appears to be a genuine example of an unusual actor: thoroughly ethical, but also thoroughly evil. Interestingly, from this perspective, Darth Vader manages to be an unethical Jedi and Sith. Not (talk) 18:14, 16 September 2016 (UTC)
With the latest edits, the article is looking pretty good. The early Sith history section (and maybe the thematic role section) needs a few more inline citations, which I hope to include this weekend or next. Substantively, I think the affiliated characters and popular culture sections still need some work (I didn't have a chance to fully edit those sections back in September), but they aren't in terrible shape. Once those items are ticked off, I think we'll be in great shape.Not (talk) 19:48, 14 December 2016 (UTC)
This is very minor, but a google search of "kraterocratic" -"sith" returns only 10 hits. Is it really good for wikipedia to use such a 'questionable' word? -- Flizzjkzaop (talk) 19:11, 7 January 2017 (UTC)
I noticed that some EU-ish material (e.g., regarding the racial background of the Sith) was placed in the Sith's "Canon" background section at the beginning of the article. For now, I am reverting: On a glance, this newly-added material makes reference to facts that (AFAIK) are either not part of the "official" canon now or of dubious canonicity (e.g., identifying the Sith homeworld as "Korriban," which IIRC was replaced with "Moraband" in the canon-blessed, 3D-animated series, which may or may not be the same place as Korriban from the older comics).
In general, I think any major facts about the Sith that can only be sourced to SW: Legends material should be kept exclusively in the "Star Wars: Legends" section in this article. There is a good reason for keeping EU-only material separate and out of the main background section: Incorporating EU material in the main body of the history section will lead to inconsistencies and confusion as Disney-sanctioned canon begins to diverge from the older EU/Legends material (which it already has - see Moraband vs Korriban above). This is why we have a separate section for EU/Legends facts. Admittedly, this leaves the main early history section for the Sith a bit vague, but 1) this is a general interest wiki, not Wookiepedia and 2) the canon account of the Sith IS pretty threadbare in the Disney era, now that the EU material has been demoted from the official canon. Of course, if someone can confirm that the newly-added material that I reverted was blessed as canon by an official The Force Awakens-era work, feel free to source and then re-incorporate (but please do add a source). Not (talk) 20:04, 17 July 2017 (UTC)
why — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.197.204.73 (talk) 18:17, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
Darth Nihilus was a video game character but, he was quite powerful because of that I think that he should at least be mentioned once. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.55.228.223 (talk) 00:18, 29 June 2022 (UTC)
One example I may note is under the “Ideology” section and Sith Code. It, for example, departs into more unsourced claims about sith empires under the ideology section. This is an example of something that either needs moved and sourced or deleted from the section. There are many instances of over the top description and explanation that needs trimmed down. Even points in the sometimes sound overly lore engrossed, as if a Jedi scholar was writing them. This is just too much for a wikipedia article. WesPhil (talk) 19:42, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
The Old English word Sið is used by Robert Kirk in his classic work "The Secret Commonwealth" in 1691/2 to decribe a class of non-human entity known for covert interactions with human beings. He wrote it as Sith. 2406:2D40:4177:F910:30BE:D940:EEFA:D86B (talk) 23:44, 21 January 2024 (UTC)