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TODO: someone to merge this set of languages about wheat to the other, much larger set of languages about the same as accessible via https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triticum — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.255.56.197 (talk) 03:45, 15 October 2015 (UTC)
Could we add the density of wheat 720-780kg/m3 average 750kg/m3? I have this in a textbook, how do I cite a paper textbook and where in the article can it be added? (105.229.121.156 (talk) 07:22, 18 September 2014 (UTC))
Well, we all know (hopefully those who keep a log which is ofcource much better then any dial-a-result study.) what castra
Soyabean data seems to be wrong e.g. FAT, Carbs and protien values. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 120.61.119.230 (talk) 14:56, 16 October 2012 (UTC) This table is used in many other pages on Wiki. However this table has many drastic errors especially soyabean. Some one needs to check this table on this page and all other pages fro accuracy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 120.61.119.230 (talk) 15:05, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
Where is the source for this claim? "Globally, wheat is the leading source of vegetable protein in human food, having a higher protein content than either maize (corn) or rice, the other major cereals." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zebramonkey2125 (talk • contribs) 17:45, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
wheat is the third most produced, BEHIND rice, according to the page on cereal and the page on corn. Anyway..i dont know how to cite that, and i dont know who to tell this to, i would just like it to change. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.176.8.60 (talk) 05:15, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
also the rice page claims rice is the second largest produced......the cited data on this page is from 2003, thats old...
I don't understand the sentence "With rice, wheat is the world's most favored staple food." What does the 'with rice' mean? Does it mean that the two are combined together as a type of food? Or what? I think someone should add a citation so we can find more information about the claim that this sentence makes. Also, a simple statement that maize is also known as corn would help us Merkins. My yahoo email address is acmefixer. 208.127.16.41 (talk) 22:14, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
Shouldn't the cultivars come after history? Somehow it looks really bad this way especially when the very first thing you read is a link with no title. M
OK, I'll ask the obvious question: if wheat is "the second-largest cereal crop, tied with maize", which is the largest ? If the article really means that wheat ties with maize as the largest cereal crop, shouldn't it say that ? Or if there's another crop ( rye ? barley ? ), wouldn't it be helpful to say what it is ? And if there is another crop, wouldn't that put rice into fourth place, not third ?
Not a question, really - just kudos. This article is much improved over the last time I read it. Good job! DrKamaila (talk) 23:25, 22 November 2007 (UTC)Dr. K.
Can wheat be eaten raw? If not why must it be processed in order to be eaten? I think this might be something interesting to add to the article --Frog (talk) 12:06, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
Here is another valid point. Why even use the qualifier of "ceral crop", when you could go as far as writing that wheat is the second largest crop on the planet. Ceral grains are the biggest type of food grown, so it goes without saying that wheat is the second biggest crop period. Its Corn, wheat, rice, barley, then potatoes.
(192.197.71.189 (talk) 15:57, 14 August 2008 (UTC))
I think the following discussion should not be in this but instead in health and diet or similar. This wiki is not about how it affects humans, it's about the wheat itself. 208.127.16.41 (talk) 22:14, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
Why has so little been done ref the problems with wheat as a source of health problems, sensitivities and so on? As one of the worst offenders of problems to health its about time that an in depth study be done on wheats. It appears now that wheat intolerance may be a factor in diabetes, whereas buckwheat may be actually a medicament base for diabetes. As for replacing meat what do the millions of persons with wheat problems do!!!
Different types of wheat should be marked by law in a product, not just "wheat". Also persons using wheat illegaly to "improve" a product should be held criminally responsible. (Certain wine manufacturers, Bourbon whisky distillers, Flour refiners to name a few.)
Sources of additives should be marked as well for example "dextrose from hard wheat" not just "dextrose". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.49.229.132 (talk) 01:25, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
Why is there nutritional information for wheat germ in the "As a Food" section? Also in the table below the article is comparing the same wheat germ data with whole grain data from other cereals. I would say that most people consume whole wheat or white flour in higher amounts than wheat germ and it would be less misleading to have the whole grain data on the page and in comparison with other grains. Do you agree? Pertinent nutritional data can be found on the USDA nutrient database at http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.16.11.137 (talk) 14:39, 19 January 2011 (UTC)
Also relating to the table data, there was some bolding throughout it but the pattern wasn't clear and wasn't explained in the page text. Possibly someone was trying to highlight 'most nutritional' values or something, but it didn't seem consistent for that either. I've moved all bolding to the wheat column for ease of skim-reading, but please do change it back (and add a key/note maybe) if you know what the hell was going on with the original bolding scheme (and my apologies, if there was a consistent scheme that I broke). Denny de la Haye (talk) 17:38, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
I've moved this quite long list of disease-causing organisms to a new page, Wheat diseases. It thus forms part of a group of pages that currently includes Wheat taxonomy and could later include Wheat evolution and Wheat breeding. All these are quite technical subjects that take space to expound. I guess we'd like the Wheat page to be more an overview, and to concentrate more on production and use, two aspects that need more work (and will take more space). The remaining stub on disease in Wheat needs lengthening to make a paragraph.Mark Nesbitt 13:00, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
This is a question: Since it is not easily dissolved in water, what is KCal absorbed by a human body from wheat Bran? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.186.12.220 (talk) 02:02, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
The Triticum problem Does anyone have any thoughts on how we can tidy up the botanical (Latin) names used for species in this article? There are several different schemes for wheat taxonomy (see [1]) and the key requirement is that any one account should stick to one scheme. The existing wheat page starts with a species list from ITIS which follows the traditional naming scheme, as used widely in trade and by grass taxonomists: T. aestivum, T. aethiopicum, T. araraticum, T. boeoticum, T. carthlicum, T. compactum, T. dicoccon, T. durum, T. ispahanicum, T. karamyschevii, T. militinae, T. monococcum, T. polonicum, T. spelta, T. timopheevii, T. trunciale, T. turanicum, T. turgidum, T. urartu, T. vavilovii, T. zhukovskyi. The ITIS list is not complete (omits T. dicoccoides, for example), but is basically sound and could be fixed.
The wheat page in part uses these ITIS names, but also uses Triticum turgidum dicoccoides (= T. dicoccoides in ITIS scheme) and T. turgidum dicoccum (= T. dicoccum in ITIS). Both these names appear to be derived from something like van Slageren's 1994 classification[2], but with epiphet ranks (e.g. subspecies) omitted and authors incorrectly cited. To consistently follow a van Slageren-type classification, the wheat article would need to be changed so that names such as T. monococcum are converted to T. monococcum ssp. monococcum, T. spelta to T. aestivum ssp. spelta, etc.
The Aegilops problem Another problem is that the closely related goat-grasses (Aegilops genus) are subsumed within Triticum in the article: Triticum speltoides (= Ae. speltoides) Triticum tripsacoides (= Ae. mutica) Triticum searsii (= Ae. searsii) Triticum tauschii (= Ae. tauschii)
Both ITIS and Wikipedia recognise Aegilops as a separate genus to Triticum. Virtually all botanists, and the most recent monograph on Aegilops by van Slageren, agree. Looking on Google, "Triticum tauschii" scores 11300 hits, "Aegilops tauschii" scores 17,700 hits.
Solutions? In the case of Aegilops, I suggest general practice which is to refer these species to Aegilops rather than Triticum. The Triticum synonyms could be given in parantheses.
In the case of Triticum, the situation is more complicated as use of different schemes is more widespread. Geneticists tend to "lump" traditional wheat species together and then distinguish them at subspecies level. Taxonomists and field botanists favour the traditional species concept.
I'd suggest adding a new section on wheat taxonomy that explainsthis background, and a table comparing the traditional scheme to one of the better genetic-based schemes, e.g. van Slageren's. It would be made clear that either scheme is equally valid and that each has advantages/disadvantages. Then throughout the article, standardising in favour of the ITIS scheme (which is more compact, e.g. T. monococcum rather than T. monococcum subsp. monococcum) and makes the distinction between wild and domesticated wheats clearer.
Mark --Mark Nesbitt 08:14, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
Can anyone understand the text from the 188 encyclopedia? If so, please revise it into plain english. I was trying to add metric equivalents to the acre values but I cannot understand the meaning of:
Bobblewik (talk) 14:05, 2 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Translation:
WormRunner | Talk 17:10, 2 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Someone placed a merge tag on International wheat production statistics suggesting it be merged into Wheat. I was the original creator of the stats page so I'll give my reasoning for making it another page. The stats page is a place that can be added to over time as each year passes. It is a place to keep historical data but not something most people would want to read on the main page. The old stats would clutter it up.
By the way, does anyone know where the anonymous poster found the 2004 stats currently listed? [3] Liblamb 15:46, 25 July 2005 (UTC)
I agree that stats such as these are best on separate pages. Hopefully the data can be extended to prior years.
Why is there a special section on "wheat in US" in the article. US is neither the biggest producer not biggest consumer pf wheat. Start a new page on "wheat in US".
I'm new to Wikipedia so I'd prefer to note an inaccuracy here rather than just go ahead and edit the article content. If the regular contributors agree with my statements then I'd be happy to make the changes to the article text. The text in question is "Hard wheats are harder to process and red wheats may need bleaching. Therefore, soft and white wheats usually command higher prices than hard and red wheats on the commodities market." The second sentence is not entirely correct. Soft white wheat does command a high price but soft red wheat does not, under normal circumstances, command a higher price than hard red winter or hard red spring. Its all about the protein levels. Just removing the and between soft and white in the second sentence would be a good start. As for the difficulty of processing hard versus soft wheat, I'm not certain if this is true but I will look into it. --S. O'Toole 13:55, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
Wheat consumption takes many forms. See for example Parched grain; the French Article "consommé cru puis grillé ou cuit sous forme de bouillie puis de galettes sèches..."; or “Wheat berries (unprocessed seed) are also grown to make wheat grass juice.” found at [[4]]. Shouldn't all this be reflected in this Article? This important (ie, relevant) on two grounds. 1. It reflects on ethnobotany; 2. It reflects on Trade of Wheat. --Connection 01:10, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
Why a special section on US wheat? This is makes the article very US-centric.
A brief overview of the different kinds of wheat used around the world would be a great addition (I actually came to this page to find out about French wheat and why it is different to Canadian/US wheat), but anything more than that needs to be in a separate article. I suggest an article on North American wheat would be more appropriate than one on US wheat because Canadian wheat growing isn't so very different (as far as I know). Ireneshusband 00:59, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
Even though the article gives facts of many countries, there is already too mutch written about the US. The most popular wheats in the US is listed, but not of China or another country. Shouldn't there rather be a special article and photos of wheat production in China, since it's the world's biggest producer. The should also be reasons given for the decreace in China's wheat production in recent years. User:Piet Retief 15:34, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
I believe it is appropriate to add in the approximate time when wheat arrived in the New World. This could be easily added to the "History" section in the sentence starting with "By 5,000 years ago..." In another Wikipedia article, wheat is said to have arrived with the Spanish in the 16th century. If there are no objections, I will edit this article to include something along those lines with the appropriate citation and source. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by BZanetti (talk • contribs) 04:07, 18 December 2006 (UTC).
Could we get a bit more scientific with encyclodic definitions of fruits and vegetables. Tomatoe is technically a fruit even though in popular (US) culture it is referred to as a vegetable. And so what of wheat? One person in the log mentioned it is closer to a fruit then a vegetable and since corn/maize is related to wheat this would clearly place corn/maize into the fruit category and not the vegetable of popular culture. This is not a "drunken" person's post or whatever. I cannot vouch for the other users with one liners. I thought there was "no such thing as a dumb question". One should not assume. Perhaps the people in charge of streamlining the talk section for wheat are not teachers. (not that I expected them to be) Personally I'm looking for clearer definitions without delving straight into the genome and wikipedia/users so far have been unable to help in this area. User:Shink 15:14, 18 DEC 2006 (UTC)
What is cracked wheat?
The main article has a picture captioned "Cracked wheat", but the article has no mention of cracked wheat, let alone a definition. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.160.188.24 (talk) 01:37, 6 February 2007 (UTC).
I added a "as a food" section to help. Cracked wheat is crushed de-branned uncooked wheat seeds. To a cook it is different from bulgur (cooked cracked wheat) but to the person who eats it they are largely the same since by the time you eat it it is cooked. Sort of the taste difference between precooked and freshly cooked, but even then with modern flash freezing and taste enhancers it can be hard to tell the difference. WAS 4.250 04:37, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
Well, we all know (hopefully those who keep a log which is ofcource much better then any dial-a-result study.) what castrating effects soy has ,
Anyway I just read in local news , that somewhere in Dimona , the 2500 men (some say the healthiest ni the world) community of Ethiopian jews who are all vegan , eat a something called seitan סייטן which is basically textured wheat.. I think I might even go there myself to find out , but if it's true then all the vegans could rejoice that they have a meat replacement that doesn't load their body with estrogens with potency well over a handful of birth control pills.
heres the article: http://food.walla.co.il/?w=/906/1075179 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 88.152.22.47 (talk) 11:01, 11 March 2007 (UTC).
[5] may be a starting point for further research to add at least a few sentences to the article. The US section can be moved to a seperate article if this is getting too long Nil Einne 20:22, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
No mention of it as an allergen. Pretty important as it is one of the major ones in populations. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Wamatt (talk • contribs) 20:05, 23 April 2007 (UTC).
Uncited sections are not a good thing.--Rmky87 14:06, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
Any info on wheat as a symbol, e.g. in artwork or on national coats of arms and other national insignia? --71.112.96.240 22:19, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
Footnote 2 has no link. Footnotes 19 and 20 link properly but are not written correctly. 19 is listed as a repeat of 1, but it is a repeat of 2, and 20 is listed as a repeat of 2, when I cannot find it in the footnotes. I think 20 should be "Wheat diseases in Missouri..." Abee60 06:27, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
Corn (from the Oxford English Dictionary): 3. a. collective sing. The seed of the cereal or farinaceous plants as a produce of agriculture; grain. As a general term the word includes all the cereals, wheat, rye, barley, oats, maize, rice, etc., and, with qualification (as black corn, pulse corn), is extended to leguminous plants, as pease, beans, etc., cultivated for food. Locally, the word, when not otherwise qualified, is often understood to denote that kind of cereal which is the leading crop of the district; hence in the greater part of England ‘corn’ is = wheat, in North Britain and Ireland = oats; in the U.S. the word, as short for Indian corn, is restricted to maize (see 5). 5. a. orig. U.S. Maize or Indian corn, Zea Mays; applied both to the separated seeds, and to the growing or reaped crop. corn on the cob: green maize suitable for boiling or roasting; maize cooked and eaten on the cob. Wheat, rye, barley, oats, etc. are in U.S. called collectively grain. Corn- in combinations, in American usage, must therefore be understood to mean maize, whereas in English usage it may mean any cereal; e.g. a cornfield in England is a field of any cereal that is grown in the country, in U.S. one of maize.
This is a type of wheat not very popular anymore, but can someone speak authoritatively on it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.203.58.1 (talk) 16:59, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
"100 grams of hard red winter wheat contain about 12.6 grams of protein, 1.5 grams of total fat, 71 grams of carbohydrate (by difference), 12.2 grams of dietary fiber, and 3.2 mg of iron (17% of the daily requirement); the same weight of hard red spring wheat contains about 15.4 grams of protein, 1.9 grams of total fat, 68 grams of carbohydrate (by difference), 12.2 grams of dietary fiber, and 3.6 mg of iron (20% of the daily requirement).[26]
Gluten, a protein found in wheat (and other Triticeae), cannot be tolerated by people with celiac disease (an autoimmune disorder in ~1% of Indo-European populations)."
Calculations probably wouldn't be too difficult... Anyone know how many calories in 100 grams of hard red winter wheat?
Also, on average how many lb/bushel/kg per acre/unit area is averaged? Might be interesting...--Emesee (talk) 03:22, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
i don't think the figure of energy (1419) is correct or even close. i looked at the referred source. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Quatso (talk • contribs) 12:08, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
you guys are right. i was confusing with calories. sorry. (if it's better to delete my comment please do)Quatso (talk) 05:59, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
The table sourced to fao.org in Wheat#Economics, gives data for all the years going back to 1961. Some more of that data/source could be usefully extracted here, as a table or graph perhaps. (Just a note.) -- Quiddity (talk) 21:43, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
asdadssdasadsadas —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.45.2.157 (talk) 01:30, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
What is the measure used for wheat when buying/selling on the markets and what is the current price of wheat. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.105.213.92 (talk) 01:06, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
what is the planting rate per acer ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.210.133.229 (talk) 12:35, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
Since there are an epedemic(africa,asia,middle east) with ug99 right now(09) that potentially can spread and treat the overall production - wouldnt it be a good thing to mention it? (i know deseases are moved to ther own artikel, but still) - maby just briefly (i dont know enough to write it) I know sceintists have made a new ug99-resistent weat, but I've heard there are old resistent types also, so maby they could be mentiont? - i would find that interesting - Luise —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.167.173.177 (talk) 21:02, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
There does not seem much point in having this table in the article as it already has 2007 stats. So I have moved it here.
Top Ten Wheat Exporters — 2004 (million metric ton) | |
---|---|
United States | 31.6 |
Australia | 18.5 |
Canada | 15.1 |
France | 14.9 |
Argentina | 10.0 |
Germany | 3.9 |
Russia | 4.7 |
United Kingdom | 2.5 |
Kazakhstan | 2.4 |
India | 2.0 |
World Total | 105.5 |
Source: UN Food & Agriculture Organisation (FAO)[1] |
Mark Nesbitt (talk) 12:54, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
This more primitive morphology consists of toughened glumes that tightly enclose the grains, and (in domesticated wheats) a semi-brittle rachis that breaks easily on threshing.
To my observation, what is so primitive about hiding the most precious part, it's treasure to mankind is thought of as uselessly outdated and protection against bacterial, virus, and other sorts of programmed defenses.....is being perceived with the agenda of modern technological prowess. To step out from neutral observation and a bit uptight, but the entire section insinuates modern wheat as superior, whereas man's health has deteriorated at or faster than the pace of domestication. Cheers —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.198.236.17 (talk) 21:01, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
Considering the importance that the innovation of Marquis wheat brings, why is there no article or other mention of it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.141.8.20 (talk) 14:35, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
A paragraph in the section on Commercial Use identifies the dramatic price rise of 2007 and lists all the usual suspects for reasons. The article "The Food Bubble" in the July 2010 issue of Harpers Magazine suggests the root cause may have actually been an inadvertent effect of "investing" in a new financial instrument, and that although the usual suspect reasons made the situation even worse they did not originally cause it. While certainly not mainstream nor proven (and perhaps even bordering on bizarre), it seems to me this alternative should at least be mentioned, and hopefully investigated thoroughly. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.163.182.194 (talk) 17:47, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
I remember reading something about the increased use of corn (maize) for ethanol. The price of corn went up, so agribusiness (farmers) planted more corn and less wheat, thus causing the supply of wheat to diminish. 208.127.16.41 (talk) 22:27, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
the photo of 1943 wheat says baled and stacked wheat. Should it not be-sheaved and stooked?216.123.177.82 (talk) 16:15, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
Nothing about shock of wheat? The symbolism of the shock and so on... --194.144.0.162 (talk) 00:47, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
Before my edit, the information in the intro was organized as follows:
This is not a logical order for the information. If I didn't know anything about wheat before reading this article, I would have to read to the end of the second sentence before I grasp the most important meaning of wheat: as a cereal grain. Several points from the first two sentences do not make sense unless you know that wheat is cultivated as a grain. Therefore, I have modified the introduction to present the information as follows:
I think this version offers more clarity to a reader unfamiliar with the topic. Augurar (talk) 22:19, 31 October 2011 (UTC)
This table includes a wheat germ column, but wheat germ is not a staple food. This same table, or parts of it, has been copied into several articles (see my contribs for some others I tagged). I suggest that all the data be verified and then make the table into a separate page which can be transcluded into this and the other articles. Sparkie82 (t•c) 00:26, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
I came to this page looking for how the chaf, bran, germ, semolina and whatever else are separated in an industrial process, and also historically. I didn't find it. David R. Ingham (talk) 06:45, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
In the lead, we see "Wheat (Triticum spp.)[1] is a cereal grain, originally from the Levant region of the Near East and Ethiopian Highlands, but now cultivated worldwide." Most readers will not recognize "spp.", which has its own article. I plan to wikilink "spp." to its article (actually, the Species article, to which Spp. redirects) unless there are objections. -- Jo3sampl (talk) 17:57, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
I don't see in the article any substantial explanation of the planting/harvesting cycles for wheat generally, nor any comparison of the cycles for spring and winter wheats. A few questions readily come to mind. Can the same plot of land grow two crops per year? When are the two kinds planted and harvested? If there is crop rotation, does that mean rotation over years or rotation within a year? It would seem that these and similar basic questions should get some serious treatment in the Agronomy section.CountMacula (talk) 07:09, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
you should translate the file and replace the photo in the article--92.193.85.235 (talk) 08:32, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
There is a section that currently states:
The passage is taken verbatim from http://www.davidpublishing.com/davidpublishing/Upfile/6/3/2012/2012060367809689.pdf The style seems too argumentative to be appropriate, and I'm not sure we are supposed to directly quote such large passages. Additionally (and possibly more importantly), DavidPublishing seems to be a dubious source: http://collegemisery.blogspot.co.uk/2012/02/scam-warning-from-chrryblstr.html https://plus.google.com/114239303202565211988/posts/7w26rxtAEDz#114239303202565211988/posts/7w26rxtAEDz (a colleague ws solicited by them, and I came to this page as a result of trying to investigate them). Iapetus (talk) 13:10, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
Kazakhstan is quite far from the Black Sea. Maybe Black and Caspian Sea region is better? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.206.89.41 (talk) 17:12, 13 June 2013 (UTC)
Fwiw, the usage of the page began with BP, but BCE was established by this edit and should kindly be maintained. — LlywelynII 14:59, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
"Wheat is a root cause of obesity.[57] Gluten exorphins are opioid peptides which bind to opiate receptors in the brain causing pleasure and acting as an appetite stimulant and withdrawal symptoms.[58] Combined with a high glycemic index wheat promotes obesity and some diseases. Also, the United States government subsidizes wheat production making it unnaturally inexpensive thus more available. Also, gluten is an inflammatory agent and inflammation is a "cornerstone"[58] of brain disorders."
A Huffington Post article and a private book on dieting are not appropriate sources for such a broad claim. It needs to be either separated from personal opinion by directly citing the opinions' sources rather than the opinion itself. If that cannot be done, this assertion needs to be removed. 68.126.251.195 (talk) 05:47, 22 March 2014 (UTC) Jenkins
How is that possible?
84.234.60.182 (talk) 16:46, 25 May 2014 (UTC)
109.64.141.206 (talk) 21:32, 20 July 2014 (UTC)
There are a few missing parts to this story. One is the fortification of flour with various chemicals including folic acid. Two is the mixing of the flour with preservatives. Three is the separation of the three basic parts of wheat, starch, fiber and wheat germ during grinding. Four is the bleaching of the flour to make it white. While the wheat germ is responsible for much of the nutritional value of wheat it also goes bad with time and causes the flour to become rancid. The result is that little of the wheat germ is present in the finished product. Most of what is sold as commercial flour ( or commercial white flour) is starch. Whole wheat flour has some added fiber and (presumably) is back to the constituency of the original flour.
Recently there has been a increasing number of of people who wish to avoid the added chemicals and preservatives and do not want to loose the beneficial effects of wheat germ. Their approach is to buy wheat berries and grind them as needed and bake with fresh ground flour with no chemicals. The resulting bread is ( they say) far superior to commercial bread. Arydberg (talk) 07:57, 9 August 2014 (UTC)
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origins of wheat linked to mesopotamia where the Euphrates flows into Syria as early as 15000 bc - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TIcVJGfjLU (10:01/51:57) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.98.236.82 (talk) 08:37, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
@Zefr: has reverted all my edits.
I accept this one (as I said it in the reasons for editing (→Health concerns: There may be a mistake and non-celiac gluten sensitivity was deleted. Adding and referencing. I respect that I was added too much information for this page, but NOTHING was an original research: all was in sources.)) but is not acceptable the deletion of information about non-celiac gluten sensitivity and its references, that are secondary sources, review articles, indexed in PubMed.
There is a lot and growing literature about the existence of non-celiac gluten sensitivity. This syndrome was originally described in the 1980s[1] and included since 2010 in the spectrum of gluten-related disorders.[1][2]
This practice of Zefr seems an attempt to bias the information. So, considering the neutral point of view necessary in Wikipedia, I will revert the last edit of Zefr.
Best regards. --BallenaBlanca (talk) 02:48, 14 December 2015 (UTC)
((cite journal))
: CS1 maint: unflagged free DOI (link)
Although there is clearly a fad component to the popularity of the GFD, there is also undisputable and increasing evidence for NCGS.
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wheat cultivars a lot??? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.38.105.161 (talk) 01:11, 28 September 2016 (UTC)
Cereal scientist are talking about wheat varieties a lot in stead of the cultivars. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.38.105.161 (talk) 01:14, 28 September 2016 (UTC)
Actually cultivar and variety have different meanings — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.38.105.161 (talk) 01:16, 28 September 2016 (UTC)
Therefore, an official definition of the two words is essential — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.38.105.161 (talk) 01:23, 28 September 2016 (UTC)
Have a look at the following http://www.ipm.iastate.edu/ipm/hortnews/2008/2-6/CultivarOrVariety.html
Please do not mix the following
the topic of http://www.dwr.res.in/ as the examples of
In this edit: [6] by Zefr, this content, supported by a review, was removed without reasons: "Both gliadin (a component of gluten) and wheat germ agglutinin (a lectin) may increase intestinal permeability and activate the immune system. This process is not limited to people with coeliac disease, gliadin has been demonstrated to increase intestinal permeability both in persons with coeliac disease and in non-coeliac people."[1]
This is what the references say (secondary sources, based on various studies):
[7] We have shown that in all of us bread makes the gut wall more permeable, encouraging the migration of toxins and undigested food particles to sites where they can alert the immune system. We have shown that in all of us the digestion of grain and dairy generates opioid-like compounds, and that these cause mental derangement if they make it to the brain. |
[8] In the present review, we describe how the daily consumption of wheat products and other related cereal grains could contribute to the manifestation of chronic inflammation and autoimmune diseases. Both in vitro and in vivo studies demonstrate that gliadin and WGA can both increase intestinal permeability and activate the immune system. The effects of gliadin on intestinal permeability and the immune system have also been confirmed in humans. ... Stimulation of immune cells by gliadin is not only restricted to CD patients; the incubation of peripheral blood mononuclear cells (PBMC) from healthy HLA-DQ2-positive controls and CD patients with gliadin peptides stimulated the production of IL-23, IL-1β and TNF-α in all donors tested. Nevertheless, the production of cytokines was significantly higher in PBMC derived from CD patients [14]. Similar results were obtained by Lammers et al. [15], who demonstrated that gliadin induced an inflammatory immune response in both CD patients and healthy controls, though IL-6, Il-13 and IFN-γ were expressed at significantly higher levels in CD patients. ... In order for gliadin to interact with cells of the immune system, it has to overcome the intestinal barrier. Gliadin peptides cross the epithelial layer by transcytosis or paracellular transport. Paracellular transport occurs when intestinal permeability is increased, a feature that is characteristic for CD [17]. It is indicated by several studies that increased intestinal permeability precedes the onset of CD and is not just a consequence of chronic intestinal inflammation [18,19]. Gliadin has been demonstrated to increase permeability in human Caco-2 intestinal epithelial cells by reorganizing actin filaments and altering expression of junctional complex proteins [20]. Several studies by Fasano et al. show that the binding of gliadin to the chemokine receptor CXCR3 on epithelial IEC-6 and Caco2 cells releases zonulin, a protein that directly compromises the integrity of the junctional complex [21,22]. Although zonulin levels were more up-regulated in CD patients, zonulin was activated by gliadin in intestinal biopsies from both CD and non-CD patients [21,22], suggesting that gliadin can increase intestinal permeability also in non-CD patients, yet increased intestinal permeability was not observed in a group of gluten-sensitive patients [13]. |
There are several references to support it, for example:
[9] Among the several potential intestinal luminal stimuli that can trigger zonulin release, we identified small intestinal exposure to bacteria and gluten as the two more powerful triggers (Fig. 7). |
This previous sentence: "Of the three separate genomes that modern wheat contains, the one that produces a better quality bread, and has become more common, also contains the most toxic type of gluten".[2] was modified by Zefr as " Of the three separate genomes that modern wheat contains, the one that produces a better quality, common bread also contains the type of gluten associated with gluten sensitivity.".[2] which has completely distorted the meaning.
The ref says: "Ironically, of the three separate genomes that modern wheat contains from the spontaneous cross-fertilization of three different wild species (e.g., Murphy, 2007), the genome responsible for the best quality bread is associated with the most toxic proteins (Kucek et al., 2015)."... Indeed, the wheat varieties that contain the most detrimental type of gluten have become more common (van den Broeck et al., 2010) It means that this genome is currently the most common among varieties of wheat, not that it is used to produce "common bread".
And about this text worded by Zefr: "common bread also contains the type of gluten associated with gluten sensitivity".[2], saying “the type of gluten associated with gluten sensitivity” implies a serious misconception: that there may be "safe" gluten. There is not "one type" of gluten associated with gluten intolerance, but "all" gluten harms people with celiac disease or non-celiac gluten sensitivity. What the reference says is quite different: "the genome responsible for the best quality bread is associated with the most toxic proteins".
I will edit and fix it.
Best regards. --BallenaBlanca (talk) 22:46, 18 October 2016 (UTC)
References
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The phrase "ALL varieties of wheat and related grains ALWAYS contain toxic proteins for CD and NCGS people" is incorrect, and misleading. In my opinion it probably reveals an extreme bias. Many people are allergic to prawns, but we could not reasonably say that they contain toxic proteins. Many people are intolerant to lactose, but we could not reasonably say that milk is toxic. Whilst fully recognizing that consumption of wheat causes severe and debilitating problems to some people, this must be kept in proper proportion, and mentioned using proper terminology. For instance "gluten is a protein that causes health problems in a small percentage of consumers" would comunicate this problem, be correct and not mislead. RAMRashan (talk) 23:55, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
Some foods do contain toxic substances that need to be degraded or denatured before eating. For instance, many types of cassava have roots with cyanide-contain substances when raw. If any person eats raw cassava root they are likely to become very ill or die (of course, when properly treated cassava is a healthy food).
Of course, reactions to prawns, milk and wheat are very different to the reaction to raw cassava or any other toxin-containing food. The reactions do not involve toxicity of the food themselves, but the reactions of a proportion of people to these particular foods. Wheat can be eaten by most people, with no ill effects whatsoever, and wheat is recommended as a healthy food by numerous authoritative sources. I think it's important to convey the seriousness of celiac disease whilst avoiding the danger of misleading. The most suitable references for Wikipedia would be authoritative sources that synthesize accepted knowledge, at an appropriate level of detail, for instance a national medical association or the FDA. I have substituted your sentence for a quotation from the FDA, it does convey the seriousness of celiac disease, but in a more suitable context.
Whilst modern bread wheats may contain more gluten than older bread wheat varieties, I doubt there is any clinical relevance. A person with celiac disease should not eat any variety of wheat.
The health concerns section is overdetailed, and non-neutral. Some references are clearly inappropriate. For instance, an academic citation which presents “new frontiers” is not a good citation for Wikipedia, where knowledge should reflect the generally accepted.
I have made some changes, but this section clearly needs more work to correct these problems. RAMRashan (talk) 14:23, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
The word toxic was used by the FDA in the context of evaluation within a very specific context, and in a specialised document. In the pages destined for the general public the word "toxic" is not used, and it shouldn't be used in the Wikipedia article, because it is obviously misleading.
Your assertion that the FDA expresses an "incomplete and outdated idea about CD" shows that you are pushing a fringe view. The FDA is an excellent source to determine what we really know about food and health issues. It's inappropritate to use an academic citation which presents “new frontiers” (and therefore, by definition ideas, that are not incorporated into the consensus) on Wikipedia.
This section needs reformulating RAMRashan (talk) 17:55, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
Please explain how the definitions that you just posted from the World Gastroenterology Organisation are incompatible with the FDA definition I previously used " In people with celiac disease, foods that contain gluten trigger production of antibodies that attack and damage the lining of the small intestine. Such damage limits the ability of celiac disease patients to absorb nutrients and puts them at risk of other very serious health problems."
Neither of the definitions that you just posted from the World Gastroenterology Organisation use the word "toxic". This clearly supports the removal of the word "toxic" from this section. If the World Gastroenterology Organisation doesn't need to use the word "toxic", then neither does this Wikipedia article. RAMRashan (talk) 23:02, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
You have failed explain how the FDA definition is incompatible with the World Gastroenterology Organisation. Never mind, if you prefer the definition of Celiac disease of the World Gastroenterology Organisation, let's use that. How can you object using that definition? RAMRashan (talk) 00:44, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
BallenaBranca, you may think that the FDA concept of celiac disease is "incomplete and outdated",but it really is not the role of Wikipedia to revise the FDA's thinking, especially as regards to food and health, and especially not citing articles with title such as "Bread and Other Edible Agents of Mental Disease”!
I have used the current definition of celiac disease of the World Gastroenterology Organisation, which you BallenaBlanca cited. Please, BallenaBlanca, do not return to a defintion that uses the word "toxic". If you can find an authoritative source, such as the FDA, or a National Medical Association that uses a definition, for public consumption, of celiac disease that includes the word "toxic" please post in this talk section and we can discuss. RAMRashan (talk) 02:46, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
I don't think there is any copyright issue in using a short quotation and citing the source. Your insistence on using your own formulation of words to include the word "toxin" when gluten and celiac disease are introduced is wrong and misleading. Please choose a definition from an authorative source, a major medical association or the FDA to use instead. I'm not talking about "expanding a definition", but using a good one.
References you have chosen, from low impact and pay-to-publish journals, are not good references. Celiac disease is a well-established disease and a terrible problem, but the references you have chosen include large worrying health claims that go well beyond what is accepted and known, they are not well-supported. If these exaggerated health claims were well-supported it would be easy to find authoratiive sources for them. The title of one speaks for itself "Bread and Other Edible Agents of Mental Disease”. Please remove these references.
Neutral point of view is important for Wikipedia. The section as was "Health concerns" was inherantly unbalanced, especially with the wordings and references you have insisted on. It's important that people take celiac disease seriously, but also important that wheat and health is presented in a balanced way that reflects accepted knowledge. I sincerely believe that your insistence in using poor sources, and the word toxin will not help Wikipedia readers take celiac disease seriously.
I have changed the section title to "Health benefits and concerns" and introduced some text about the health benefits of eating wheat and a bit more detail about FDA's gluten-free labeling regulation. RAMRashan (talk) 14:43, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
There has been good and healthy debate between RAMRashan and BallenaBlanca, with a fairer text and more reasonable position about gluten "toxicity" in the Health benefits and concerns section. Thanks to you both. Here, I'm raising the use of this reference in the article, and invite discussion by you both about it. Although a review article and arguably compliant with WP:MEDRS, the Bressan-Kramer thinking is substantially WP:FRINGE, in my opinion. Without dissecting it point-by-point, I suggest terms like the following are far outside conventional scientific thinking and are truly outrageous beyond measured reasoning: 1) "bread (wheat) is an agent of mental disease", 2) "bread (wheat) increases the permeability of the blood-brain barrier", 3) bread (wheat) causes "holes in our gut", 4) bread (wheat) may cause schizophrenia or autism, plus several other examples I could raise, none of which have been proved by MEDRS-quality sources. I believe this paper's extreme views remove its eligibility for use in the encyclopedia, much as it would likely be rejected by mainstream science. I removed it from the article and propose it remain excluded. There are other reviews in use to support statements where Bressan-Kramer was applied. --Zefr (talk) 17:08, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
It's okay to remove Bressan-Kramer article, I agree, I will not object.
Also, I agree to remove content that is out of place on this page and keep it similar as it was on 10:32h, 30 November 2016 [24] [25] before the first interventions of RAMRashan and adding the health benefits. All my edits below were an attempt to balance the information he was adding and to answer this question from Doc James [26].
This edit of RAMRashan [27] included incomplete information about the gluten-free diet, which may to lead to misunderstandings, backed with this four poor not WP:MEDRS references: [28] [29] [30] [31].
In this other edit, [32] RAMRashan added information on the labeling of gluten-free foods (?).
Zefr reviewed next [33] and worded, but he kept all content added by RAMRashan about GFD and labeling, and the four no WP:MEDRS references. (I do not understand why this lack of rigor on this occasion, it is at least astonishing in this editor who always fiercely works to eliminate not WP:MEDRS sources...).
Although in my opinion, that information about the gluten-free diet and labeling was out of place on this page and is WP:OFFTOPIC, I respected Zefr's decision, but I did an edit to give it neutrality and MEDRS sources. [34]
I just made these edits removing content out of place [35] [36] [37]. I hope you agree.
Best regards. --BallenaBlanca (Talk) 10:31, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
The van den Broeck et al article (PMID 20664999) ,was cited by Bressan-Kramer et al to support exaggerated health claims. I inserted the van den Broeck reference to make it transparent that the exaggerated claims were not supported. Of course the best for Wikipedia was to delete that whole section of text, which I subsequently suggested myself, when the opportunity presented itself.RAMRashan (talk) 14:06, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
Indeed original research isn't usually good for Wikipedia, bad reviews that distort the conclusions of original research much less so.
The word "toxic" and "toxin" that are inaccurate for gluten, and not helpful for understanding. If we use the word toxic for gluten, what words shall we use to describe raw casava root, or castor oil seeds? I don't think think any authorative medical or scientific society use "toxic" or "toxin" words in their definitions of gluten or coeliac disease. So Wikipedia shouldn't. Please post sources if I'm wrong.
For the meantime please leave my edits that remove "toxic" and toxin" and actually add a bit of detail about what the disease actually is from the World Gastroenterology Organization!
Please Zefr, Alexbrn, Kingofaces43, and other editors, please contribute again. This is very frustrating and wasting too much time. Perhaps we could hold a vote of editors as to if the word "toxin" or "toxic" should be used, and if so in what context. And a poll for suggestions for the form of words that introduce gluten and coeliac disease? RAMRashan (talk) 16:32, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
Concerned about the current article's excessive discussion about gluten and consolidating the above conversations on this Talk page, I propose the following, with references remaining as currently in the article (noted as "ref"):
Please comment. --Zefr (talk) 17:06, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
Thanks very much Zefr and Alexbrn for your feedback. I agree on these three paragraphs, the renaming of the section to "Health effects" (or even to just "Health") and I agree on the need to reduce the references to 1-2 major sources.
The FDA site would be a very good site to consider http://www.fda.gov/Food/GuidanceRegulation/GuidanceDocumentsRegulatoryInformation/Allergens/ucm111487.htm#intro
RAMRashan (talk) 18:40, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
At the moment 3 editors Zefr, Alexbrn and myself are not favorable to using the words "toxic" or toxin", and you have failed to produce a single major medical or scientific society, or institution, who uses the word toxic or toxin in their definitions of gluten and celiac disease. Kingofaces43 also has concerns of Soapboxing and cherry picking, although I cann't remember a specific comment on toxic and toxin etc.
Wikipedia is not made of three/four editors, but, much less is it made of one. I suggest the section is changed to the three paragraphs Zefr posted. Although it doesn't have the toxic toxin that you want, I don't think anyone thinks it's wrong in any important way.
It could be good for Jytdog to have a look at this as well. Jytdog has given considerable thought to what type of references are good for Wikipedia.
Then we could wait a while to see what other editors have to say.
RAMRashan (talk) 20:18, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
with regard to this dif - it is completely wrong to flatly describe gluten as "toxic" as was done in that diff. This is the product of policy-violating POV pushing and UNDUE editing and MUST STOP. We might as well describe water as "toxic" every time we mention it, since thousands and thousands of people have gotten brain damage and even died from exposure to water (called "drowning" by people in the real world). It is important to update content as refs update but this is fucked up editing that is going to blow up in your face and continue wasting everyone's time Ballena. knock it off Jytdog (talk) 22:56, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
References
Both in vitro and in vivo studies demonstrate that gliadin and WGA can both increase intestinal permeability and activate the immune system.
((cite journal))
: CS1 maint: unflagged free DOI (link)
hefferon
was invoked but never defined (see the help page).I'm glad we have more editors on board. It's a shame for so much time to wasted. I just wanted gluten and coeliac to be defined in the terms of a major medical assocation or the FDA or something authoritative. The paragraphs by Zefr were good and accurate. In contrast multiple versions have used the word "toxic" in the first mention of gluten and coeliac, but not "intestine" or "autoimmune". It seems like the agenda of BallenaBlanca is to scare, not to inform.
It's just not fair BallenaBlanca to say that anyone is boycotting. The problem is that BallenaBlanca is fixed on "toxic" (which no authority uses in a definition), and want to push fringe ideas about modern wheat varieties, but doesn't seem interested in defining properly the disease using accepted authoritative sources.
I support the last changes by Doc James 23:30, 3 December 2016. Thanks! RAMRashan (talk) 23:39, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
Okay lets get back to article content. Is the current version one people can live with? [50] Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 01:55, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
I was pleased when Doc James started editing, and thanks for that, but at the end of the day I think Zefr's original three paragraphs were better, and now agree even more with Zefr's two sentence suggestion. Zefr's suggestions for reducing the references is also absolutely spot on: this is supposed to be an Encyclopedia with appropriate balance, not a review
In Doc James's version, the sentence about modern wheats having more gluten should definitely be removed, unless someone can show that it is accepted knowledge that this is clinically significant, which I don't think anyone can. At the moment the sentence is leading, and seems to be designed to induce the thought that "modern wheats are killing us!". I won't make that edit at the moment, but if no editor shows clinical significance is accepted knowledge, then it should be removed. RAMRashan (talk) 14:07, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
Non-celiac gluten sensitivity: questions still to be answered despite increasing awareness
|
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Growing evidence indicates that a marked increase in gluten-related disorders has been observed in recent years.1,2 Many factors have contributed to the development of gluten-related pathology, starting with the worldwide spread of the Mediterranean diet, which is based on a high intake of gluten-containing foods. In the Mediterranean area, the mean daily gluten consumption is particularly high (approximately 20 g and even higher in some countries).3 Moreover, the mechanization of farming and the growing industrial use of pesticides have favored the development of new types of wheat with a higher amount of toxic gluten peptides that cause the development of gluten-related disorders.4 In addition, bread and bakery products currently contain a higher quantity of gluten than in the past due to the reduced time of dough fermentation.5 It must also be noted that diagnostic tools for gluten-induced disorders, such as celiac disease and wheat allergy, have progressively improved.6,7 |
BallenaBlanca - no gluten peptides are toxic, that obvious conclusion has received overwhelming support from editors, so you arguments are baseless.
The title itself "questions still to be answered" says that this is not suitable for Wikipedia. It's not established knowledge. Speculation is not suitable for an encyclopedia.
The sentence must go!
or show that it's clinically significant with suitable authoratitive references!
I reiterate that Zefr's suggestion that two sentences and or one or two references are enough for this whole section of text about gluten and coeliac.
RAMRashan (talk) 22:58, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
As an intermediate step, I moved the sentence about modern varieties and gluten to the Breeding section. It fits well in that seciton. If you are not trying to mislead the reader, you can not object "facts speak for themselves" RAMRashan (talk) 23:06, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
That form of words is excellent RAMRashan (talk) 00:08, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
I also think percentages are problematic, because there doesn't seem to be an accepted number. However, I'm also OK with the "about 1%" in Zefr's two sentences below. RAMRashan (talk) 18:03, 5 December 2016 (UTC)