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-- there are all these TREES in the way! The article should be structured with less emphasis on MS esoterica and more on practical ALTERNATIVES that are in the marketplace (if Microsoft hasn't driven EVERY LAST ONE OUT of the marketplace by using this "just wait till" tactic for the past 12 years) in order to accomplish the basic KM workflow that the MS people have implemented in very limited fashion via VISTA DETAIL (e.g. tagging, and reviewing) ONLY for office docs and JPEGS.
To me you look at this history and you see that MS is constitutionally NOT CAPABLE of creating an open-system filing system without destroying some sense of proprietary control. It's that simple. Therefore they HAVE TO HAVE demented, inpenetrable technologies, so that they can retain control and simply say "well, you don't understand." This article as it is, is a poster child for MS dementia. If I wanted to be insane I would drop acid and read this and actually try to understand it -- much less as a developer to worry about mastering this kind of pure crap. TELL US WHAT WORKS. How do we get from what is solid (the mechanical file system) ACROSS THE RIVER STICS HERE to the shore of Okay, now I can do this complicated job of mine. Heh?
FOLLOW UP: (Told you so!) For the record Win7' s Library system is a snazzy implementation of the technology that would be very easy to back-implement into a universal advanced file system. For that matter the original SHORTCUTS technology implements just such a feature by linking the file system U.I. to the file index -- something apparently no 2nd party developer has direct access to, making self-healing links native to our daily applications 'difficult.' Why am I not surprised that after 12 years of this BS we still do not have a simple piggy-back Db system that could be local-file based (like the Win7 Libraries) to give us the meta data that can be saved in-file on MP3, JPG, and Office files? Having looked I can find only semi-obsolete developments of a "file note" technology -- the most modern of which is in PowerDesk Pro 6 & 7 -- another being "FNO" - File Notes Organizer that is apparently abandonware. PD however still works well, and has enough of the Advanced File System feature to get me by on my very demanding UUNIS.org project. The page of notes I can take is more than sufficient and I can just use ***** as a pattern in the front of the thing and you can have a rating system that isn't as HOKEY as the one in Explorer that takes up three times the space -- and you can change the font -- get a popup look instantly at the entire first line of text that can be quite long -- very cool. Integrates directly into details view and on the properties / details tab. Move the file with PD and you keep the notes intact. I don't know if there's a hidden file or a small Db being used. And in spite of the serious work potential, PD (Avanquest) doesn't even know it exists or how to sell it. DORKS. There's exactly ONE LINE about it anywhere -- and (pay attention) IT ISN'T IMPLEMENTED BY DEFAULT (add "Notes" to the detail view the usual way.)
I probably just sold ten thousand five hundred packages by mentioning this -- hey fella's -- where's my check? Damn it doesn't work that way. When I figure out how it does work I MIGHT back-engineer the previous paragraph to let you in on it.
--Xgenei (talk) 20:31, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
Didn't BeOS have something similar with the now ~11 year old Be_File_System? Beos495 (talk) 02:34, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
I have added a link to an old F/OSS project which implemented a similar system on top of GNU/Linux to the "External Links" section. Edit as you see fit. 68.174.119.68 23:48, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
Originally scheduled for longhorn? Come on! It was promised at least as early as 1994, well before Microsoft had any concept of Longhorn. Anyone have any reference from that long ago, I'd like to update this page. --Yamla 00:04, 2004 Dec 15 (UTC)
Should we link to similar technologies such as Reiser4?
Done, made the changes as discussed. May come back and rewrite slightly. --Yamla 15:47, 2004 Dec 30 (UTC)
I question if vaporware really merits an article. Does anyone have any good whitepapers to provide some scientific background to give this article some value? Gmaxwell 23:28, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)
I heard mentioned [1] that WinFS is now called Windows Storage Foundation. Should the article name be changed? --Cumbiagermen 08:39, 9 September 2005 (UTC)
I rewrote pretty much everything. Notably: Less speculative, more details; a section on "why WinFS?"; revised release schedule timeline; links to OS X components that are comparable to parts of WinFS; information about prior PDC release. In time, it'd be nice to see this article gain the kind of detailed explanation that similar API articles (e.g. MDAC) have. Warrens 19:17, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
The first paragraph of Architecture needs some help. Some of it is unclear (e.g., "like the thing we names as file system") and it shifts to first person. I've copied it here but haven't modified the original.
"WinFS is built on top of NTFS which provides journaling. WinFS works like the thing we names as file system. We can place standard files into it, but also WinFS is the place where we can store information that is not placed in files but is a representation of the related tables. Yes, WinFS is built from Yukon code. Most parts of WinFS are written in C++. The set of managed APIs are surely written on C#, and as APIs WinFS Services are also written in C# such as WinFS Sync, WinFS Rules. But core parts are written in C++ as they interact on down-level with Windows OS Kernel to get an access to memory and so on."
The article was not comprehensive enough. It felt like some random notes taken in a presentation. Nor was all of WinFS' capabilities covered. I rewrote it exhaustively. Please comment.
I just rewrote the long article. My fingers are numb with exhaustion. Please help wikify.--Soumyasch 04:04, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
Will WinFS be made avaidable for free to previous operating systems through Windows Update? mastodon 16:10, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
I oppose WinFS being categorized as a Desktop-Search environment. It goes much beyond that. I agree, initially the most prominent use will be for searching, but its usage is not limited to that. It is a full blown relational database, plus includes a replicator. A lot many things can be done. I myself made a p2p search engine (using WinFS, MS Rave and some others), which, despite not having any centralized index, searched info from all over the network. So, how can it be called just a Desktop search. --soUmyaSch 05:14, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
This essay, famously includes the following passage regarding WinFS:
But Microsoft needs to give you a reason to buy Longhorn, and what they're trying to pull off is a sea change, similar to the sea change that occurred when Windows replaced DOS. The trouble is that Longhorn is not a very big advance over Windows XP; not nearly as big as Windows was over DOS. It probably won't be compelling enough to get people to buy all new computers and applications like they did for Windows. Well, maybe it will, Microsoft certainly needs it to be, but what I've seen so far is not very convincing. A lot of the bets Microsoft made are the wrong ones. For example, WinFS, advertised as a way to make searching work by making the file system be a relational database, ignores the fact that the real way to make searching work is by making searching work. Don't make me type metadata for all my files that I can search using a query language. Just do me a favor and search the damned hard drive, quickly, for the string I typed, using full-text indexes and other technologies that were boring in 1973.
I am not saying I think that this article needs a Criticism subsection, but if there is a good reason to implement this whole database system, rather than just doing what Google does in making search work, the article should explain it and cite this seminal article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.105.251.160 (talk • contribs) .
see http://blogs.msdn.com/winfs/archive/2006/06/23/644706.aspx for details
I was thinking about changing the "pictures which have person X" example because it can be confused with "face recognition" which I think it's not the feature. Maybe it should be changed to "documents which have X word(s) on them" David Morón 19:01, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
You might want to mention that Linux already has this with ReiserFS, although ReiserFS isn't used by many people. —Preceding unsigned comment added by JeffBurdges (talk • contribs)
I'd question WinFS's inclusion in the category "Failed Microsoft initiatives". It's still in development & hasn't been released yet, so it can hardly have said to have failed. Delayed, maybe; but that hardly puts it alongside Microsoft Bob. In accordance with Be Bold, I'm removing it from that category. Simxp 03:41, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
"Microsoft plans to release all of these products [Windows Mail in Windows Vista, Windows Calendar, Windows Photo Gallery, Windows Media Player, and Microsoft Office applications such as Microsoft Office Outlook]with WinFS as the data storage sub-system in the next 3 years"[2]? :O Am I dreaming? --soumসৌমোyasch 08:04, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
Again this article needs citations. Gutworth 02:03, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
I keep reading that WinFS runs on top of NTFS. I know this is true, but does it not also work with FAT and FAT32? Josh the Nerd 17:35, 26 June 2007 (UTC) Josh
GB 11:22, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
GB 12:03, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
PGWG 16:47, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
The article states that WinFS is implemented as a database on top of FAT32 and cites a reference. I thought it was pretty odd that they would use FAT32 instead of NTFS, so I looked at the reference, and the term "FAT32" doesn't occur anywhere in it. It does, however, say that WinFS is built atop NTFS. Someone earlier in this discussion page also mentioned that the only beta release used NTFS. Inhahe (talk) 04:27, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
I do not think that reFS should be emerged at this point as it is unclear that it is the same thing. If it becomes certain then merge. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 20:36, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
What's to merge? ReFS is mentioned briefly in the Win8 article - essentially nothing (reliable and verifiable) is known about ReFS so far. There's nothing to merge (yet) - Meewam (talk) 06:09, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
searching it will reveal that win8 pre-release builds had a file system that seems to be a continuation of winfs. protogon was it's name and then refs. don't have time at time of writing but they should be in this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.134.223.11 (talk) 20:13, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
About 1994 or 1995 Microsoft (in Vienna, Austria, Europe) offered a web-survey with just a very small text-field for general propositions. So I sent a brief concept to them, which covered the principles of an object-orientated (non-redundant) information management, as described in this article. I had been starting developing it in 1988 - the first version was a simple non-restricted database with a suggest-search-field for item-names, similiar to nowadays Wikipedia (but without social functions, as there was no public internet at that time). I never received a feedback and wondered if the messages had been evaluated by departments who understood them and thought about or if the survey mainly covered people's opinion about existing software or maybe the idea was seized and adapted to Microsoft concepts. Does anyone know about the origin of the project within Microsoft? -- 77.119.128.68 (talk) 07:43, 12 April 2014 (UTC)
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