((editprotected))

Dear administrator, please add the following interwiki link:

[[ia:Patrono:H:title]]

Thank you in advance, --Julian 19:49, 4 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

 Done east.718 at 20:42, 11/4/2007

((editprotected))

Right now this template doesn't seem to work for wiki-links. I added some code to have an optional 'link=yes' parameter, this will turn the text of the second parameter into a wikilink and will display the title when hovering over the link.

Example of how a link with a hover text, using this template, displays right now: if it work's you'll see this text, and another example of how it might work with the link paramater added: Example.

this is the suggested code:

((#ifeq:(({link))}|yes|[[(({2))}|<span title="(({1))}" ((#ifeq:(({dotted|yes))}|no||style="border-bottom:1px dotted"))>(({2))}</span>]]|<span title="(({1))}" ((#ifeq:(({dotted|yes))}|no||style="border-bottom:1px dotted"))>(({2))}</span>))<noinclude>((pp-template))[[ia:Patrono:H:title]][[sl:Predloga:H:title]]</noinclude>

Freestyle 10:32, 28 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Y Done --ais523 14:35, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

((editprotected)) Could somebody please make a documentation page for this template? I made it work here, but have no idea how and why.

Dear admin, please create the documentation page even if you youself don't plan to write the documentation. Others may use it. Debresser (talk) 12:08, 4 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Not too hard to work out what it does! I've begun the documentation. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 12:28, 4 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Lately I've been learning more about what some templates do, but this one was above my limited understanding. I am gratefull for your work. Debresser (talk) 13:10, 4 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

((editprotected)) As can be seen in this example:

• ((H:title|Hello|example|link=yes)) produces Hello

the |link= parameter currently doesn't work, and probably never has worked. I don't know why that parameter is there, but if it's important please fix it (as I've done in the sandbox), and if it isn't important please remove it. Eubulides (talk) 19:49, 18 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Oops, that was my last edit which broke it :( I've no idea if the feature is used anywhere, but it's fixed now. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 22:15, 18 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Moved from User talk:MSGJ.

I still wish you could just double-pipe a link.

For example:

[[Limited slip differential#Factory_names | GM's Positraction | A drive train component that limits the difference in the rotational speed of the rear wheels, providing better traction.]] was a factory option for the 1968-1980 model years.

Would result in:

GM's Positraction was a factory option for the 1968-1980 model years.

(Though, I couldn't actually use the ((H:title)) template in this example, since I needed to pipe the link display name. Probably not a common enough occurrence to require any changes, however.)

--Pi3832 (talk) 06:26, 14 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

A double pipe would require a change in the software, which is beyond our control. However I have made a change to the /sandbox copy so that

((H:title/sandbox|A drive train component that limits the difference in the rotational speed of the rear wheels, providing better traction.|GM's Positraction |link=Limited slip differential#Factory names))

produces A drive train component that limits the difference in the rotational speed of the rear wheels, providing better traction.Tooltip GM's Positraction. If this would be useful, we can add it. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 12:52, 14 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Nice.

Clever solution: You can use the new version just as before (link=yes/no), so nothing will get broken, and no one is forced to learn anything new.

I can't honestly say whether or not the link=page_name option will be widely used, but I really see no negatives to making the change. Barring someone smarter than me coming up with a "downside" to it, I'd like to see it added.

Thanks again. Now I need to get out there and start adding ((H:title)) to articles on technical topics! --Pi3832 (talk) 18:12, 14 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• In fact |link=no wasn't working! (It linked to no.) But I have now fixed this.
• Do you think the double underline looks okay? Perhaps it would be better with just the dotted underline?

— Martin (MSGJ · talk) 20:32, 14 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

By "double line" do you mean that when you hover over a templated item the standard "this is a link" solid underline appears, making the ((H:title)) dotted underline seem duplicitous? If so, my opinion is that you should have only one line, but have it change from dotted to solid when moused-over. If that distinction is too obscure, maybe have the line thicken? --Pi3832 (talk) 01:07, 15 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

That's not what duplicitous means.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  08:29, 2 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Other Options

I've been digging around, and have found some other options in addition to modifying ((H:title)).

[[User:pi3832|<abbr title="Mike">Me</abbr>]] = Me

((H:title/sandbox|Mike|Me|link=User:pi3832)) = MikeTooltip Me

[[User:pi3832|<span title="Mike">Me</span>]] = Me

[[User:pi3832|((H:title|Mike|Me))]] = Mike

I kind of like the funky pointer you get with the <abbr> tag.

--Pi3832 (talk) 06:36, 16 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Marking abbreviations with ((Abbr)), or the ABBR wikicode, is a good thing indeed, and it is accessible to blind users (and others) like User:Graham87. However, Template:H:title uses incorrect tricks to produce the same appearance, and thus is not accessible to blind users such as Graham87. Since H:title is used for just about anything, and not only abbreviations, this issue cannot be fixed with the ABBR template or wikicode. This issue is explained at Wikipedia:Manual of Style (accessibility)#Text. Cheers, Dodoïste (talk) 13:58, 27 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This needs some modern CSS and HTML5 research. Using <abbr> (including the ((Abbr)) wrapper) for non-abbreviations is bad code; it's against the HTML specs, and a breakage of semantic markup. But we do want tooltips to be accessible. I'm sure that in the intervening years this sort of thing has been examined elsewhere. I would suspect that title="..." is the right approach.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  08:28, 2 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Graham87: Do you have any post-2011 input on this?  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  08:41, 2 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@SMcCandlish: I'm not aware of any changes in this area regarding screen readers. Graham87 10:00, 2 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Graham87: Do this work properly?:

• Code version: <span title="Tooltip text">Main text</span>
• Rendered version: Main text

 — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  10:46, 2 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@SMcCandlish: Nope, it doesn't. Graham87 11:20, 2 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Well, ratfarts.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  11:54, 2 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

We no need a link (({link))}. We just need hovered. 42.60.139.23 (talk) , view this source to know. 13:30, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The fact that there's more than one possible way to do something doesn't mean one must be forced and all others thwarted. There's no rationale for deleting the parameter that puts the link code inside the template; if anything, that style would be preferable since it would make the template and all it's doing one portable "package" that easy to move in the text without error.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  08:32, 2 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I propose reversing parameters |1= and |2= to match the order of ((Abbr)), and use a bot or something to clean it up in the deployed cases. The main use this template is ever likely to see is conversion of misuse of ((abbr)) to provide tooltips of things that are not abbreviations. (That template should only be used for abbreviations, including acronyms and initialisms, because its underling HTML tag, <abbr>, is strictly defined only for that use in the HTML specs (both W3C and WHATWG versions).

((H:title)) (aside from template parameter compatibility concerns) is presently using a totally counter-intuitive parameter order, putting the markup/afterthought in front of the main content. We just don't really do this with templates, because it's confusing and no one's likely to remember "Oh, yeah, the order in this one is backwards", so it's going to lead to needless errors, even when people aren't converting from another template.
 — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  08:13, 2 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Also, and maybe more seriously, the redirect ((Tooltip)) needs to be usurped from ((Abbr)) and redirected here, because it is the proximal cause of the vast majority of abuses of that template for markup of non-abbreviations. But this can't happen unless one template or the other has its parameters reversed. ((H:title)) is the obvious one to do this with, because it's only used on 6,500 pages rather than 391,000.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  08:23, 2 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]