This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.
Closure on refdesk question
Hi MJL,
I was somewhat alarmed to read that you are considering closing the discussion (I assume you meant the Question II discussion, about closing the desks?) as "no consensus". It is not "no consensus". There is a clear consensus not to close the refdesks, and I very strongly recommend that that is how the discussion should be closed. --Trovatore (talk) 01:49, 4 February 2019 (UTC)
Trovatore, I see you found this which caused me to say what I said. I really didn't mean any specific question, but I was more so referring to the main proposal and not the shut down proposal. Trust me, I have read a lot of the comments since I typed that as well. ―MJL-Talk-☖ 03:31, 4 February 2019 (UTC)
Which discussions are you closing, exactly? All or (II), only ? ∯WBGconverse 15:00, 4 February 2019 (UTC)
Winged Blades of Godric, the main thread unless you have objections to a ((nac)). I was going to get co-close with DannyS712. However, by all means you are welcome to close in our place. ―MJL-Talk-☖ 15:29, 4 February 2019 (UTC)
So I guess all. The problem is that both the initial proposal and Proposal II are rather thinked with many people making their !votes contingent on one or the other passing. ―MJL-Talk-☖ 15:31, 4 February 2019 (UTC)
Any progress on this? --JBL (talk) 17:46, 12 February 2019 (UTC)
I am so sorry to have missed your initial ping and for the consequent delay in yours' closing. Please proceed with your close and I have confidence in your abilities:-) ∯WBGconverse 18:26, 12 February 2019 (UTC)
Thanks for cleaning up after me. I'm sorry for not realizing that I wasn't fully following Wikipedia's rules. I'll propose my edits in the talk page in the future. Sorry to make more work for you and thanks for not getting frustrated with me.
Csmithepe (talk) 16:58, 11 February 2019 (UTC)Csmithepe
Csmithepe, Haha, it's nothing! I saw you were trying to follow the rules, so I wanted to help you out. If there is any questions you may have, please feel free to post here (or email me). Thank you so much for your understanding and patience with the process! :D ―MJL-Talk-☖ 17:05, 11 February 2019 (UTC)
Rollback
Hi MJL. After reviewing your request for "rollbacker", I have enabled rollback on your account. Keep in mind these things when going to use rollback:
Getting rollback is no more momentous than installing Twinkle.
If you no longer want rollback, contact me and I'll remove it. Also, for some more information on how to use rollback, see Wikipedia:Administrators' guide/Rollback (even though you're not an admin). I'm sure you'll do great with rollback, but feel free to leave me a message on my talk page if you run into troubles or have any questions about appropriate/inappropriate use of rollback. Thank you for helping to reduce vandalism. Happy editing! ~Swarm~{talk} 10:59, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
CfD closure
Thanks a lot for closing this CfD discussion! However, you should be aware that as the closer you should remove the CfD tags from the category pages so that it is clear that the categories are currently no longer discussed at CfD, and you should add "Old cfd" templates on the category talk pages so that it is easy to track the history of the categories in CfD discussions. More detailed information about closing CfD discussions can be found here. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:58, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
Marcocapelle, My apologies! I was under the false impression that WP:XFDC did this automatically. Maybe I should change my vote in Evad37's Request for adminship! (Just kidding). I will try not to make that mistake again, and I am very glad you informed me of this matter! It's all set now. :D ―MJL-Talk-☖ 01:37, 15 February 2019 (UTC)
XFDcloser doesn't do much at CFDs compared to the other venues (and this is noted in the close dialog), but it is getting better – see WT:XFDC#WP:CFD relists? - Evad37[talk] 07:43, 15 February 2019 (UTC)
No apologies needed, it is a misunderstanding that is occurring frequently. I would love to have XFD closer doing all that stuff automatically too. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:59, 15 February 2019 (UTC)
I wanted to address your question at the above report. I know you would like to be an SPI clerk, and I think it would be more useful to respond to your question in light of that wish. Many people gain SPI experience by filing reports, either new cases or new reports about existing cases. One of the primary roles of a clerk is to analyze reports. Identifying socks can only be done by analyzing their behavior first. Commenting on other editors' reports can be helpful but generally only if you are adding evidence that materially proves or disproves socking. In that scenario, you are doing the same thing as when filing a report yourself: you are analyzing the behavior of the users involved. Based on what I've seen, I think it's premature for you to be a clerk. You need to (a) gain more experience and (b) demonstrate that you have an aptitude for the job; it's not for everyone. I hope that helps.--Bbb23 (talk) 12:22, 15 February 2019 (UTC)
Bbb23, if that is how you feel, then I will respect it. Thank you for reviewing my contributions. I will take these suggestions to heart moving forward. I appreciate this response! :) ―MJL-Talk-☖ 17:39, 15 February 2019 (UTC)
CfD Macedonia
Would you be willing to revert the procedural closure of Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2019_February_16#North_Macedonia? The RFC is most obviously not going to change the new article name while the RFC also does not directly discuss the category names, so this CfD discussion needs to take place anyway. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:19, 16 February 2019 (UTC)
Agree with Marcocapelle. The article name was changed via RM on 8 Feb and the category should follow suit via cfd. The RFC concerns the wording of the article, not its name. Oculi (talk) 10:51, 16 February 2019 (UTC)
I agree with Marcocapelle and Oculi. This was an inappropriate non-admin closure (see WP:BADNAC#2), because it is a controversial closure.
The adjectival forms are indeed being discussed at the RFC, but they have been explicitly excluded from the CFD. So the CFD and RFC can run in parallel. Please revert your closure. --BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (contribs) 11:43, 16 February 2019 (UTC)
PS See also WP:NAC#Other_deletion_discussions: "In general, XfDs other than AfDs and RfDs are probably not good candidates for non-admin closure, except by those who have extraordinary experience in the XfD venue in question".
So far as I am aware, you don't have that extraordinary experience of CFD. --BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (contribs) 12:05, 16 February 2019 (UTC)
Revert the changes I made and do this like normal.
Thank you all for your patience with me. ―MJL-Talk-☖ 16:44, 16 February 2019 (UTC)
@MJL, this is not complicated. You are not an admin, so you should not have closed this discussion. Please just revert your close.
If you want to link from the RFC to the CFD, then please do so ... but categories are discussed at CFD. There currently ~650 category pages pointing to a discussion which has been improperly closed, so this is needs urgent attention.
Please reopen it promptly, or I will escalate this. --BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (contribs) 17:18, 16 February 2019 (UTC)
Adding a link in the RFC to the CFD discussion is the best solution indeed. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:50, 16 February 2019 (UTC)
However I remain very disappointed that it took so many rounds to persuade you to revert a close which you (as a non-admin) should not have made. This iss is especially poor since you waited just 2 minutes between initially notifying me of your concerns about the CFD[1] and then closing it.[2] --BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (contribs) 19:59, 16 February 2019 (UTC)
BrownHairedGirl, I'm sorry about not waiting a bit longer before closing it after that first comment, okay? However, can we please just keep discussion in one place for now? I can't keep bouncing around all these different pages. ―MJL-Talk-☖ 20:54, 16 February 2019 (UTC)
BrownHairedGirl Thank you for the notice. I will providing a comprehensive response shortly. I am currently on my phone and with family. ―MJL-Talk-☖ 18:51, 16 February 2019 (UTC)
@MJL, this is a very poor response which is now starting to look like wilful disruption.
The CFD remains closed, at what would otherwise be a peak time for comments.
The point remains simply that a) for all the reasons above the CFD should not have been closed, and your suggestion of redirecting discussion to sub-part of a huge RFC is disruptive; b) regardless of your view on that, this should not have been a non-admin close.
Per WP:ADMINACCT, admins are required to respond promptly to concerns, and have repeatedly been warned not to participate in admin actions where they will not be available for followup. The admin action which you undertook here requires the same level of attention.
Please stop spinning this out. Just revert your closure. --BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (contribs) 19:05, 16 February 2019 (UTC)
I can't reply there, because that discussion was closed. So I'll reply here.
The answer is yes. There is a proposal to rename ~650 categories, in a topic area which has been highly controversial. So it is important that any decision reflects a broad consensus; that's why I listed it at WP:CENT.
If the CFD was closed, then obviously it should be removed from WP:CENT. But once that CFD was re-opened, it was right to restore it at WP:CENT. There's nothing personal about that either way.
Look, I'm very sorry to read that that you feel upset about the way this went. As volunteers, we all edit en.wp as a pastime, and it's horrible when that pastime makes us feel bad.
I really do hope that this won't put you off. In my first few years of editing, I had several v traumatic bruising episodes which made me want to just close my account and never edit here again. I just took short beaks, and came back to less difficult areas. In hindsight, I would have done some things v differently. There are other things which I reckon I should just have left to others; and there are other areas where I reckon I should have chosen my timing better, and not entered controversy until I felt more able for it. (I now keep a long list of things to tackle some day when I feel my my flame-proof overalls have been massively upgraded). I still make a fool of myself from time to time, but I've found a way of handling that as no big deal; just another lesson. As they say "If you're not making some mistakes, it probably means you're not trying hard enough".
I don't want to say what lessons you should draw from this. That's up to you, and since we ended up at loggerheads, my thoughts wouldn't help. But I will say that learning from episodes like this is what turns a good editor like yourself into a great one.
BrownHairedGirl, Trust me. I don't take anything personally for too long. I edited my userboxes for an hour to catch my spirits up. I will probably just refrain from CfD's from now on. There seems to be a lot of processes there that I simply don't understand. Regardless, I personally hope you do not take my actions today as a reflection on my capabilities as an editor nor as indicative of how future interactions with me will go. I will work cooperatively with everyone and anyone for this project, so I have taken to heart the idea to not let past disputes shut the door on being kind to anyone. Thank you for hashing things out with me. ―MJL-Talk-☖ 01:48, 17 February 2019 (UTC)
Hey, yesterday was yesterday.
I try very hard not to remember disputes, because the overwhelming majority of them involve some sort of misunderstanding and/or some point in people's mood cycles which happened to collide. If the same pattern repeats a lot, I do eventually start to take notice, but one disagreement is best left as water under a bridge.
ExclusiveWillows, I would be fine with doing it for you, but it seems you indicated that this seems like something you want to learn about. We have Help:Table which has some pretty comprehensive information. If you would like me to give you a step-by-step guide on what you would need to do to add the survey to the article. How specifically would you like me to help? ―MJL-Talk-☖ 01:29, 18 February 2019 (UTC)
My particular difficulty would be with the tables. (See the 2010 Siena + "Overall Aggregate Rankings") Coding for the table might be much more advanced, so I'll probably just ask someone on the article's talk page to do it. ExclusiveWillows (talk) 04:07, 18 February 2019 (UTC)
Semi-done ―MJL-Talk-☖ 04:59, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
Quikjet Airlines
I did not read the outcome of the discussion as a consensus for or against any outcome. Opinions favoring merging or redirecting the article effectively support the removal of an article at this title. bd2412T 21:29, 18 February 2019 (UTC)
The Resilient Barnstar- City Express Money Transfer
Dear MJL,
Thanks for understanding me and accepting my article. I am much grateful to you and other editors as well. May I ask, when my article will go live?
Your suraj (talk) 08:28, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
Your suraj, I do not have an exact answer for you sadly. Legacypac ideally would know better than myself. ―MJL-Talk-☖ 14:15, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
Your suraj, in case you did not see: your article (City Express Money Transfer) just went live. CongratulatioNs! ―MJL-Talk-☖ 17:57, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
Dear MJL, Thanks a lot my friend. I am much grateful to you and other editors. Your kind co-operation is highly appreciated.
Your suraj (talk) 03:58, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
Thank you very much Mr. Long for the warm welcome and your kind words. I would like also to thank you for the useful links and tips that you offered. It will take me some time to learn the intricacies of the Wikipedia editor community but until then I can offer you a piece of 🍰. --Despotak (talk) 16:11, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
Despotak, it's nothing! If there is anything I can do for you, please do not hesitate to ask. Also, thank you for the cake!! (PS: If you would like to send WikiLove, you can click that heart icon at the top while on a user's talk page. There's some pretty great treats!) ―MJL-Talk-☖ 16:55, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.