The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus.  JGHowes  ^talk 01:57, 16 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Abigail Savage (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Has had one supporting role in Orange Is The New Black but little else. For OITNB, received no recognition or significant coverage. Overall, no significant coverage in secondary independent sources. Article currently has three links to Savage's own twitter and one interview from a blogger. My search prior to this nomination could not find any further sources to prove notability from reliable independent secondary sources. Therefore does not meet WP:NACTOR. Cowlibob (talk) 11:53, 8 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 11:58, 8 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. TJMSmith (talk) 12:07, 8 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the Article Rescue Squadron's list of content for rescue consideration. Glee^anon 13:28, 11 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete not enough significant roles in notable productions to show notability.John Pack Lambert (talk) 12:38, 8 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete I watched the whole OITNB series and remember her character well but I have to agree with you. Her role in that very large ensemble cast was minor, as all her other roles have been, and there is no independent significant coverage of her. I found a couple of interviews, including a single paragraph quoting her in an Advocate article profiling four same-sex married couples, but those don't help establish notability. Largoplazo (talk) 12:42, 8 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete Simply not enough coverage to come even close to notability as per WP:NACTOR. Jeppiz (talk) 17:26, 8 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment, I’ve started rewriting the article, as of now I’ve been able to add sources, mostly for her film work as a sound designer and sound editor, which were unmentioned in the article prior to this.
  Additionally she’s won three ensemble SAG awards, and nominated for a fourth but another editor has disrupted them from being added to the article, there’s an RfC on the talk page to discuss the issue. Glee^anon 17:50, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Well, precisely: "she's won" an award recognizing the entirety of the (in this case large) cast, not the individual achievement of any one of them, is not accurate; and, in her case, she was a minor character. She acquires no notability of her own through these, and notability is not inherited. Largoplazo (talk) 20:08, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• I did go to check out the sources you've added. But I saw that there are 35 of them, and I'm not going to open them all, not knowing which of them might contribute to notability and which you added merely to verify something in the article's content. Would you mind indicating which of them you believe are qualifying sources under WP:GNG? Largoplazo (talk) 20:11, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Every listed cast member gets the award, even for a large cast, they didn’t carve out exceptions. She won the award as did all the other cast members. Glee^anon 20:31, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Unless the nature of the award is that, when awarded to an overall excellent ensemble cast within which one or two performers are merely mediocre, they give it only to the excellent performers and not the mediocre ones, then it is not an award recognizing the individual excellence of any one of them and cannot be construed as an indication of such. Largoplazo (talk) 21:43, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• That’s an interesting position. Could you clarify which policy or guideline prohibits listing an ensemble award in our articles? Glee^anon 21:53, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• This isn't the place to discuss what should or shouldn't be in the article, but whether or not to keep the article, where the grounds for removal is a lack of notability. (I realize the two discussions are going on concurrently, but they should be kept separate.) As above, I'm confining myself to the notability question. Largoplazo (talk) 21:59, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Perhaps winning three SAG awards, and nominated for a fourth would be a consideration of her notability? Glee^anon 04:21, 10 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for trying to improve the article. I've haven't looked through all the references. The majority of the new refs including the Variety refs seem just to show that she was a part of the sound team/editor for those films rather than proving her notability. She has shared a nomination for a MPSE award but that in itself is not a significant achievement. The SAG cast awards were shared with 37 others so again not significant. I can't see why she currently meets any of the three criteria per WP:NACTOR. Cowlibob (talk) 12:31, 10 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I’m still finding sources, I think she meets BASIC, and her notability is 75% sound editor/25% actor as of yet. If she died today her obituary would be the tipping point. Glee^anon 20:06, 10 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment, Article overhauled, everything referenced. I’m still looking for more. Glee^anon 10:47, 11 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep, meets GNG/BASIC. The spirit of verifiability is of course to ensure everything is true/no fraud, that has undoubtedly been met. Notability is a bit borderline until one looks at the breadth of her work as both an actor and sound editor on close to a hundred films, most of them notable. If it is borderline then I suggest we WP:IAR unless we agree on what this article’s tipping point is; it’s already an acceptable start, and our readers will come away with a good understanding of who she is. Glee^anon 10:47, 11 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete — Per rationale by Johnpacklambert & Largoplazo a google search doesn’t show sufficient in-depth significant coverage in reliable sources to warrant a standalone article at the moment. Celestina007 (talk) 14:38, 11 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep. High quality page. Excellent job with the improvements. Right cite (talk) 00:28, 13 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep easily passes WP:NACTOR#1 with multiple and significant roles in major productions. Her role in Orange is the New Black alone gives her the notoriety needed. Lightburst (talk) 18:07, 13 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.