The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was G7 Non-admin closure. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • ^{(Many otters • One hammer • HELP)} 16:01, 17 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Battle of Lemos

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It appears we are the only source online for this battle [1], and the sole creators of this article have basically been going about creating what appear to be a major hoax/POV-push related to Don Manuel Joseph Martín López de Prado Rodríguez Díaz de Armesto y Varela, X Baron of Lemavia (see earlier AfD). Shoemaker's Holiday (talk) 05:49, 17 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Shoemaker's Holiday, you are wrong. Wikipedia is not the only source for this Battle. Please see all references cited in the article, some of them are available online. Please also bear in mind that, being an event part of Spain's history, it has been published mostly in Spanish. Qqtacpn (talk) 06:18, 17 May 2009 (UTC)).[reply]

Delete. Seems to be in the same realm of fantasy as Vitus Barbaro and The Sacred Order of Skull and Crescent. Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 06:29, 17 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I quite don't understand. You have just marked for deletion all of my articles, which are perfectly noted and referenced. It looks pretty arbitrary to me to just label them for deletion, when most encyclopedias in Spanish language include them (Gran Enciclpedia Gallega, Enciclopedia Garcia Carraffa, Enciclopedia Espasa, etc.). (Qqtacpn (talk) 06:49, 17 May 2009 (UTC))[reply]

Again, I have provided enough bibliography. To just ignore it and say it belongs to the realm of fantasy is arbitrary. Just to mention a recent example, Brian De Toy, Ph.D., arguably the highest living authority in military historian (Professor at West Point Academy), has published on this particular campaign. See, for example, Dr. De Toy, Brian (2009): "Defeating Napoleon’s Designs: Littoral Operations in Galicia, 1809", International Journal of Naval History. You can even read it online at http://ijnhonline.org/volume7_number3_Dec08/article_detoy_dec08.htm#_edn2. (Qqtacpn (talk) 06:42, 17 May 2009 (UTC))[reply]

That is not a source. Provide a source which actually mentions these people and battles. Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 06:53, 17 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hmmm. [2] - "Lopez De Prado, Baron of Lemavia Location: Chicago, IL," which just happens to be where the perpetrators of the Barbaro hoax came from. Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 06:54, 17 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

About 8 million people live in the Chicago area. To make you points even more absurd, I do not even live in Chicago. The truth is, you just labeled a bunch of articles for deletion without verifying the sources. As a proof, I have just pointed out a number of articles that mention this battle in particular.

Dr. De Toy, Brian (2009): "Defeating Napoleon’s Designs: Littoral Operations in Galicia, 1809", International Journal of Naval History http://ijnhonline.org/volume7_number3_Dec08/article_detoy_dec08.htm#_edn2].

The Battle of Monforte de Lemos http://www.1808-1814.org/articulos/monforte.html.

List of civilians assassinated on April 20, 1809 in the parish of Penela http://club.telepolis.com/apenela/HISTORIA.htm

With all respects, please read the articles before arbitrarily marking them for deletion. (Qqtacpn (talk) 06:53, 17 May 2009 (UTC))[reply]

You'd have a better case if I didn't check the first one, and discover that the word "Lemos" doesn't appear in your link. Shoemaker's Holiday (talk) 07:08, 17 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

User talk:Shoemaker's Holiday, your arguments are once again baseless. I understand you are not familiar with the geography of Spain. Monforte de Lemos is part of Galicia! What about http://www.1808-1814.org/articulos/monforte.html? This is taken straight from one of the best well known books in Spanish on the Peninsular War. It dedicates an entire epigraph to the Battle of Monforte de Lemos ... Please just acknowledge you have been overzealous, it's fine, I understand (Qqtacpn (talk) 07:18, 17 May 2009 (UTC)).[reply]

Having checked up on things: All the most contentious descriptions are completely unjustified by the sources you provide. The section on "Outcome of the Battle" has nothing even resembling its description in the source cited, which lacks the words "Monforte" and "Lemos" completely. It would appear to be completely made up, or, at best original research on your part. The sentence "Pillage and butchering of civilians by the French followed at large scale" is cited to parish records. This appears to be at best original research, and at worse a hoax. Some of us read foreign languages. Show us a decent source that discusses the battle and justifies the facts in the article. Don't give us sources that talk in general terms, and ask us to accept this as justifying very specific claims cited to them when these claims do not actually appear in them. Shoemaker's Holiday (talk) 07:08, 17 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Parish record from the 19th are public official documents, preserved in Archives and Libraries, microfilmed and available to the public in general. This is not original research, anyone with good will can go to the sources and read it (Qqtacpn (talk) 07:37, 17 May 2009 (UTC))[reply]

Again please read the sources, which I have provided in the article. If you want to start with a website, read http://www.1808-1814.org/articulos/monforte.html. Can you find "Batalla de Monforte de Lemos" there? This is the kind of stuff that a newspaper from Galicia will laugh about, once they know you called this battle a hoax ... (Qqtacpn (talk) 07:35, 17 May 2009 (UTC))[reply]

I have answered all your questions for hours. You have made very offensive accusations based on:

1) Your inability to read Spanish.
2) Your lack of interest for sources published in paper. You only accept websites as sources.
3) You are not interested to search the websites of the Spanish Goverment I have provided (search "lopez de prado", between quotes, at http://pares.mcu.es/ParesBusquedas/servlets/Control_servlet?accion=0).
4) The fact that my area of expertise (War crimes commited in Galicia during the Peninsular Wars) has offended a group of French Wikipedians (Equendil, Frania W., etc.).
5) Ridiculous suppositions (do I live in Chicago? Are these 5 users in the same Continent? Why are they interested in similar topics?)
6) Discrimination based on being a new contributor.

Anyone with access to this Encyclopedia (http://www.loc.gov/rr/hispanic/geneal/index_gc.html), available at the Library of Congress and everywhere in the Spanish Speaking World, please go to Volume 72, pages 101-120. Or go to the http://www.granenciclopediagalega.com/, also available in the Library of Congress, and search the article dedicated to Lopez de Prado. These are but a few more proves that these individuals are making false accusations. I do not doubt your intention is right, but the conclusion here is that a very small number of Wikipedians ignorant of well published research actually have the power to remove legitimate content. Fine, if this is how flawed Wikipedia is, please go ahead and remove these articles. They belong to the paper encyclopedias available in the Library of Congress. End of discussion. (Qqtacpn (talk) 11:10, 17 May 2009 (UTC))[reply]

Delete with haste as blatant hoax by now indeffed user. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • ^{(Many otters • One hammer • HELP)} 12:21, 17 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Delete as hoax. Edward321 (talk) 15:57, 17 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.