The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. I have discarded a number of spa votes and find the arguments for deletion have not been adequately refuted although I will specifically state that there is no bar on creation of a properly sourced NPOV article at the location. Spartaz Humbug! 16:06, 5 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Classic Judaism[edit]

Classic Judaism (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)
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Unsourced, WP:POV & a violation of WP:SYNTH. This is an essay that is structured like an article. Joe407 (talk) 14:07, 26 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Judaism-related deletion discussions. —Joe407 (talk) 14:12, 26 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - I agree that the article should be userfied rather than annihilated. There remains the potential that there is a substantive article here, but not in this form. Carrite (talk) 16:37, 26 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I did a pretty in depth search and found no mention of a religious movement calling itself "Classic Judaism." As I mentioned above, many of the theological points are similar to certain orthodox/conservative Judaism views of Halakah, but the specific views mentioned in this article seem to be intimately (and from my findings almost exclusively) connected to the Canadian Yeshiva & Rabbinical School. Additionally, I couldn't find any significant discussion of a "Classic Judaism" in scholarly works, and Jewish specific encyclopedias, such as Encyclopaedia Judaica, have not trace of mention of it either. I'm not 100% convinced that an article can't be made out of this, but this is definitely not that article. I !vote for userification and/or merge/expansion as suggested by my previous post. Ravendrop 06:48, 27 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Bold textKEEPBold text This article. For one, I have been finding in recent years that Orthodoxy has been moving too far to the right; whereas Conservative Judaism has been moving too far to the left. I have finally found a movement that speaks to me. While at the moment, Classic Judaism is a small movement, and just 'starting out', all things MUST start somewhere. As a Masters of Information, I feel that it is necessary to retain'Bold text'this article, as one of the purposes of Wikipedia (& other new media), is so people can create 'on-line' communities to rally around causes or ideas. Thus, Wikipedia should provide some time for this article to be posted, to see if it 'catches on'. Hence, This concept is still in its incubation stage, and is thus too premature to be considered for deletion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Baruchhakoen (talk • contribs) 20:19, 27 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Please read the policy page WP:CBALL. Wikipedia documents what exists, it's goal is not to create. If anything, Baruchhakoen puts forth an unintentional argument for deletion or userfy. Joe407 (talk) 04:05, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

KEEP. I also find that this speaks to me. Modern Orthodox Judaism has become entrenched in the past and its own version of the law, and Conservative Judaism does not always place an appropriate emphasis on Halacha. I always find myself trying to explain to people where I find myself on the spectrum of Jewish observance, and Classic Judaism is a term that works perfectly, as espoused by this article. Judging from people to whom I have spoken, there are many people like me. We are an existing movement, in search of a home like this. Beverlee Rapp —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.26.52.182 (talk) 20:55, 27 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]


KEEP. Classic Judaism is a descriptor for an increasing number of traditional Conservative Jews and left-wing Modern Orthodox Jews feeling alienated by new developments in both their movements. These movements are very recent: all within the last decade. As such, the scholarly literature on this topic is just developing, though a monograph literature is rapidly developing--best example being Samuel Heilman. Sliding to the Right: the contest for the Future of American Jewish Orthodoxy, U Cal Press, 2006, to cite but one example. The Canadian Yeshiva is among a few educational institutions that are in the forefront of this change, hence the over-reliance on quotes from its website. Certainly the article requires a rewrite and references to sociological sources that reflect the recent trends alluded to in this article are needed. However, to remove it would reduce the currency of Wikipedia for its users as the Masters of Information user so effectively pointed out. I would give the writer--who has been advised of the necessity of this process--a couple of weeks to produce the appropriate article.

"KEEP." It seems that in a way this article is condemning Reform and Orthodox practices. It needs some revising so that it is written like an encyclopedia article, not from as biased a point of view. The article does capture a real phenomenon. Without the other sides' views, it is only opinion. With all the perspectives, though, it gives people an idea of how different denominations of Judaism approached Jewish history. It has some good information, but needs revision. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.26.52.182 (talk) 01:32, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

(cont.) I would have no problem with the article if it would be written NPOV, particularly with its implications that Orthodoxy is not Classical Judaism, an issue about which there is consensus to accept as a legitimate POV, albeit open to question by the other denominations. In other words, the article needs to present its main concepts (that they represent classical Judaism, others do not) as the opinions of a small, recent denomination, not as facts. It was be as if an article would state, "the Catholic Church abandoned authentic Christinity, and sect xyz restored it".Mzk1 (talk) 13:14, 29 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. The writer's use of the word "classic" is in line with its article on Wikipedia (of lasting worth, with a timeless quality...distinguished from a newer variety). As such, used as a way of describing Judaism especially given the context and history described in the article, is fitting. At the same time, "Early Christianity" (also on Wikipedia) describes a time-period of pre-denominational Christianity, without much direct referencing to the term itself. Rather, it describes the context of the time as different from what followed. Similarly, "Classic Judaism" describes the context of a modern, "classic" variety and a very real phenomenon among the Jewish community. Wikipedia has the opportunity to acknowledge the diversity and complexity of the Jewish community by including this article here. 76.10.136.9 (talk) 18:43, 2 May 2011 (UTC)Melanie Ollenberg[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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