The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Despite SPAs, Etroia has made a solid keep argument that has been supported by two other established editors. Whether or not to merge the article into the University can be discussed on the article's talk page. v/r - T P 16:19, 27 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Cleveland State University Poetry Center

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Lacks citations to significant coverage in reliable 3rd party sources. Contested prod. RadioFan (talk) 01:44, 13 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Ohio-related deletion discussions. —RadioFan (talk) 02:00, 13 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

KEEP. This article could use some work on sources / references, but that alone is not a reason to delete it. =//= Johnny Squeaky 06:31, 13 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

you've failed to demonstrate how this meets WP:ORG. LibStar (talk) 07:07, 13 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete fails WP:ORG. coverage is minor, and mainly confirms its published a few minor publications. [1]. LibStar (talk) 07:07, 13 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Schools-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 16:01, 13 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Poetry-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 16:02, 13 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 16:02, 13 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: I found zero significant coverage. SL93 (talk) 22:50, 13 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - I've verified that the article's source showing a list of published books[2] is indeed being published by Cleveland State University Poetry Center. This [3] is but one of many examples that verifies that Cleveland State University Poetry Center is publishing the works of notable poets, and is therefore a notable publisher. Mice never shop (talk) 19:18, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Merely having published works does not indicate notability. Just has an author having a published book(s) doesn't demonstrate their notability one way or the other. Significant coverage of the publisher, the center or some coverage by and independent 3rd party would. But that hasn't been uncovered yet.--RadioFan (talk) 23:32, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Here are two 3rd party sources demonstrating significant coverage of the press and its notability in the world of contemporary American literature: The Huffington Post recognized the center as one of the top 15 Small Presses in America ^[1]. "The Best American Poetry" interviewed the center's director about publishing and editing in the contemporary literary world ^[2]. Beyond the notability of its authors and collections, both sources prove the press's influence in publishing and how it has effected the American literary community.Ilovelemurs2 (talk) 19:57, 15 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep -This is an essential and valid entry. comment added by Marybid (talk • contribs) 20:16, 14 December 2011 (UTC) — Marybid (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. :— Marybid (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

this !vote makes zero attempt to address how a notability guideline is met. LibStar (talk) 23:08, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep -The page meets WP:ORG standards because it is a notable organization. The significant coverage of this page is minor, but the coverage proves notability. The "Recent and forthcoming publications" section on the page sites two (2) reliable 3rd party sources [4][5]. The authors who have won major literary awards, were all awarded to the books published by "Cleveland State University Poetry Center" respectively, which clearly demonstrates that the press is effecting the current literary culture and is in accordance with notability requirements at [WP:ORG]]. Ilovelemurs2 (talk) 17:12, 15 December 2011 (UTC)— Ilovelemurs2 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

While the awards may help establish the notability of those authors but that notability isn't inherited by this organization. I'm still not finding any significant coverage of this organization. I'm willing to withdraw this nomination if we can come to consensus that it should be merged into the main university article.--RadioFan (talk) 18:41, 15 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment -The page has been edited in effort to satisfy the requirements regarding notability and significant 3rd party sources. In rebuttal to the notion of inherited notability, I argue that books designed, edited, and produced by a press is its only measure of notability. The Huffington Post picked the center as one (1) of the top 15 best small presses in America because it was publishing books that were "ahead of the cultural curve and pushing literary trends"[6]. This not only proves that a press' notability is judged from the books and authors they publish, but also proves the Poetry Center is an influence on the Americanref literary community-- therefore the center is a notable organization as per the guidelines at [WP:ORG]]. Also, well-known national newspapers and media outlets such as The Philadelphia Inquirer, NPR, and PBS have featured the center in articles and broadcasts, which I also consider as proof that the center is a notable organization. Here's a list to such broadcasts and stories: An article from The Philadelphia Inquirer on Elyse Fenton and her book Clamor which the center published in 2010 and won the 2010 University of Wales Dylan Thomas Prize[7]. An announcement naming poet Shane McCrae a 2011 Whiting Writers' Award for his collection Mule which the center published in 2010 [8]. A link to NPR's "All Things Considered" interview with poet Elyse Fenton, Winner of the University of Wales Dylan Thomas Prize [9]. A poem from the press' 2010 collection Rust or Go Missing by poet Lily Brown is featured at PBS NEWSHOUR [10]. The talk show "Around Noon" with Dee Perry, which airs on Cleveland's NPR affiliate, spent portions of two shows discussing the significance of the center in 2007 and in 2008 [11], [12]. Given these 3rd party sources it's clear that people and organizations outside the American literary community see the Poetry Center as a notable and story-worthy press. Cleveland State University Poetry Center should have its own page, independent from Cleveland State University's main article, because similarly housed presses of equal or lesser stature have their own Wikipedia pages separate from their own universities; Take New Issues Press [13] for example, who is housed at Western Michigan University, they not only have the same distributor as the center [14], but it was also named to the same Huffington Post top-15 best small presses list [15]. Even now-defunct small presses that were once housed at universities, like Eastern Washington University Press [16], have independent pages. With the new citation changes to the page, as well as the reasons above, this page should be kept and should not be merged with the Cleveland State University's main article. It seems unreasonable to delete this page when it is obvious that the center is an influential press in the American literary community, and therefore is notable.Etroia (talk) 23:07, 15 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment A number of references have been added but the only ones that even mention the subject of the article are primary sources or directories. I'm still not seeing the kind of significant coverage where the center is the subject of the article. Only mentioned in passing in articles about authors. Isn't there any coverage on the center itself?--RadioFan (talk) 01:45, 17 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

There are multiple references that are third-party articles in reputable sources that are neither primary sources nor directories, which a simple search will unearth, so this question seems willfully disingenuous. One such source is the Encyclopedia of Cleveland History ([17]). Another such source is the Huffington Post article on the best fifteen small presses in America -- [18]. --ideasoforder (talk) 20:38, 17 December 2011 (UTC)— ideasoforder (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

Keep - As an active member of the American poetry community, I can verify that this press is indeed quite notable and highly visible, in part because its writers so frequently get media coverage. A wikipedia page for it is invaluable, as researchers seeking information about a particular poet are quite likely to also want information about the publishing house that poet is associated with, and this particular publishing house is remarkable and notable for its longevity alone--few small presses can trace their history for thirty-to-forty years. This press is certainly as notable and visible as other presses with their own wikipedia pages. Moreover, the allegation that it is only mentioned in passing in articles about authors is simply false. Here is a third-party article about the press itself, dated from 1997, which clearly establishes notability: http://ech.case.edu/ech-cgi/article.pl?id=CSUPC -- the source is another encyclopedia, The Encyclopedia of Cleveland History.--ideasoforder (talk) 20:38, 17 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

— ideasoforder (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Wifione ^Message 11:44, 20 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - The Encyclopedia of Cleveland History, referenced in the footnotes as containing an article on the CSUPC, indicates that this institution, established in 1964, was first known as the "Cleveland Poetry Center" — so don't be overly restrictive with the search parameters. Carrite (talk) 19:38, 20 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

In case anyone wants to get to work improving the piece, THIS WEB MEMOIR on the origins of the CPC looks useful. Carrite (talk) 19:42, 20 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment- Looking online for further online sources from third-parties about the Poetry Center's notability, I quickly came across this "scrapbook" of archives and articles from the 1960's which include major newspaper articles from the period about the Poetry Center, and speak to its notability even forty-plus years ago: [19].--ideasoforder (talk) 16:34, 21 December 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.229.172.97 (talk) [reply]

comment despite all the praise in this AFD for the center, especially by new editors, it's still clear that the topic can be comfortably covered as a section in the main article on the university. Looking at the article there really isn't much in there about the center, a paragraph or two. The remainder is about the authors, detail which is already well covered in their biographical articles. I'm willing to withdraw this AFD as a merge if we can gain consensus there. RadioFan (talk) 03:11, 22 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment -- without commenting as to the notability of this article, I'm struck by the number of new users opining. Nearly all on the same side. A sock check might well be in order, if nothing else to quell the natural suspicions that quacking raises.--Epeefleche (talk) 07:17, 22 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep A publisher of multiple notable authors is very likely to be notable , and there are 3rd party references to support the notability. DGG ( talk ) 17:52, 22 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

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