The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete and redirect to 2020 Tablighi Jamaat coronavirus hotspot in Delhi. consensus there are Pov concerns and fork so this should be covered at the redirecf. I did not close as merge as there seems more than a bit on TNT required so best start from.scratch. Spartaz Humbug! 05:07, 30 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Coronavirus pandemic anti-Muslim riots in India[edit]

Title changed to: Anti-Muslim reactions to the Coronavirus Pandemic in India

Coronavirus pandemic anti-Muslim riots in India (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)
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WP:POVFORK of 2020 Tablighi Jamaat coronavirus hotspot in Delhi (already covered here) and is currently serving as clear violation of WP:WWIN and WP:SOAPBOX. I am tempted to cite WP:HOAX as well, because AFAIK no "riots" have occurred, nor they have been mentioned but the article title, category, infobox, and lead claims that "riots" are occurring. Tessaracter (talk) 14:57, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 14:59, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Discrimination-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 14:59, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Islam-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 14:59, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of COVID-19-related deletion discussions.Shellwood (talk) 15:08, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep there is no reason to delete this article as it is cited with foreign news sources. Every time, both Pakistan and India are blaming each other. Keeping this situation in mind, i have not cited the said article with Pakistan news sources. In fact, Indian media has also reported violence-related news. 2020 Tablighi Jamaat coronavirus_hotspot in Delhi and Coronavirus pandemic anti-Muslim riots in India are two distinct articles as one covers the "virus carriers" and the nominated one covers "attacks" primarily. I've a lot of respect for India too, but here on Wikipedia, reliable sources are more useful. You may wish to see WP:BEFORE and also [this, this, this, and this TheBirdsShedTears (talk) 15:34, 21 April 2020 (UTC)Note to closing admin: TheBirdsShedTears (talkcontribs) is the creator of the page that is the subject of this XfD. [reply]
India is a democratic country. Obviously you are going to see all types of reports from just every part of the world no matter what happens in India. But the fact that you are simply cherry picking sources or hyping up the extent of the impact of a subject that already exists and is relatively small in size, is violation of WP:POVFORK. Aman Kumar Goel (Talk) 16:01, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Please note, Wikipedia is not about our personal opinions, but it is "based on real occurrences". See Verifiability and WP:FAPO. TheBirdsShedTears (talk) 17:08, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Those essays are exactly opposite to the POV pushing you have done here since no "riots" took place. You are only justifying the nominator's reasoning that you have indeed falsified content for creating this article. Aman Kumar Goel (Talk) 18:25, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Is this your personal opinion? TheBirdsShedTears (talk) 18:32, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
TheBirdsShedTears, PoV pushing can be clear by reading article. Your article has indiscriminate collection of informations which is against 5 pillars of Wikipedia. Are we going to create separate page to include information like Muslims attacked Indian Police and health workers? There are multiple reports regarding it. Brihaspati (talk) 03:30, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - I would note my disapproval of the new title, "reactions" seems a little bit odd considering we're talking about attacks here. Also, the page name capitalisation is wrong. However, let's not move the page for now. If the page survives this AfD, I'll open a move discussion. --MrClog (talk) 21:50, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I'd have opted for something else, but now that's it's not directly wrong and inflammatory, it's not a critical shift Nosebagbear (talk) 22:47, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - The repeated allegations that this discrimination is a "hoax" is a fringe view. International coverage is cited in the article, so unless one would argue that Time, The New York Times, Al Jazeera, BBC, etc., are fake news sources (when there is consensus they are reliable), this view can be discarded. --MrClog (talk) 11:18, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • The argument to merge is understandable, but I would respectfully disagree. The enormous amount of reporting gives enough information to expand this article to a size that it would be undesirable to have it in the main article. Of course, the contents of this article can be summarised in the 2020 Tablighi Jamaat coronavirus hotspot in Delhi article. In addition, the argument that the part about social media is "unencyclopedic" doesn't hold true, considering this social media controversy has been covered by RS. For example, Time opened their article with a mention of the social media controversy (which they further discussed later on in the article). Other RS, like India Today, wrote entire articles on it. --MrClog (talk) 08:35, 24 April 2020 (UTC); edited 11:56, 24 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Just a follow-up comment, I think having multiple news articles from reliable international sources such as The New York Times, BBC, Time, and The Guardian shows that the article clearly passes WP:EVENTCRIT. -- LuK3 (Talk) 13:09, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with that. The article should be renamed as soon as possible to avoid misinformation. --MarioGom (talk) 20:50, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Devonian Wombat, shouldn't "Coronavirus Pandemic" be lowercase? All of the other titles containing the phrase have been lowercase. -- LuK3 (Talk) 23:40, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Before you use the word "Hoax", one should spare a moment to familiarize what does it actually used for and where. It might look a "factually incorrect" article to editor(s) this is because of this. TheBirdsShedTears (talk) 15:38, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@TheBirdsShedTears: - why should IAR be applied here? If you're stating IAR is the applicable rule, that suggests you're conceding that it is a POVFORK. In which case, why is it so special that IAR should be used? We don't even split povforks on things like Trump's article. Nosebagbear (talk) 15:47, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The edits made by users (in favour of deletion), has alomst neglected the core elements of the Wikipedia, therefore, it may be a good idea for them to avoid making edits while providing edit summary mentioning the Wikipedia rules there. Those edits are not less than "deceptive" ones. And what does "reactions" mean in the title? Is this really a reaction? Please explain. TheBirdsShedTears (talk) 16:30, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Hemant Dabral: Please restore your edit at the 4th occurrence i.e "perps" parameter. You have almost violated the out of scope and WP:BESTSOURCES. TheBirdsShedTears (talk) 15:38, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Santoshsatvik: I do not agree with your assessment. If there are more "anti-something" cases based on reliable sources, then why not you create an article for this or update an existed one? I note, local media is portraying the true facts in other ways contradict to WP:PG. Thank you! TheBirdsShedTears (talk) 05:28, 23 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Santoshsatvik: - I'd like to query why you mention riots at all? Nosebagbear (talk) 08:08, 23 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It is not less than a "riot". How many times should i provide evidences? Consensus can not be impacted by diverting the editors from the main topic. Please look at this TheBirdsShedTears (talk) 09:11, 23 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Current version falsely claims there is existence of "religiously motivated attacks", "mob cases", "severe attacks on the minorities" and that makes it clear that the article is still dedicated to promote misinformation. After cutting up all such disinformation we would be left with nothing but comments about Twitter trolling which are not notable since Wikipedia is not for gossiping. Wareon (talk) 14:04, 23 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Wareon:, I don't think you have visited any of the following sources:

Note: I used the "(missing)" tag here to avoid adding the source text here as it could hurt ones patriotic feelings.

1). "governing party officials spoke of “human bombs” and “corona jihad” — a spree of anti-Muslim attacks has broken out across the country - assaulted with cricket bats, beaten up etc." source nytimes
2). "The pandemic has provided fresh opportunity for (missing) to beat down an already disadvantaged minority group." Source foreign policy.
3). "Outrage over a Muslim congregation that has sparked a new wave of Covid-19 cases in India has taken an Islamophobic turn." Source bbc
4). "anti-Muslim attacks has broken out across India" source nytimes.
5). "The hijacking of coronavirus as an excuse for discrimination comes after a growing state-sponsored campaign to turn minorities into second-class citizens in India, as part of the (missing) agenda of (missing)" Source the guardian.
6). "Panic and chaos have already set in across the country. A man hospitalized in New Delhi with COVID-19 symptoms committed suicide. A mob beat up another man in the western state of Maharashstra for sneezing in public." Source foreign affairs.
7). "The country’s Muslim minority population has since witnessed a string of attacks by (missing), accusing the (missing) of “corona jihad.” source VOA.

In fact, the current version is awaiting restoration to its previous version. One of the editors has removed the cited content and then ran away. They removed content from their talk page too. In case they do not reply to the request for comment, the edits may be reverted without notifying them upon community's approval. TheBirdsShedTears (talk) 15:15, 23 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Who ran away and where to? Hemant DabralTalk
Op-ed by Rana Ayyub carries weight? She's well known for her anti-Hindu and pro-Islamist stance and that's the only weight carried by her. Her reportings of 2002 Gujarat Riots (culminated in a book 'The Gujarat Files') were rejected by the Supreme Court of India as a work of fiction. Since when op-eds became reliable, neutral and unbiased news source? Hemant DabralTalk 18:46, 23 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know who Ms. Ayyub is but even if her op-ed carries no weight, there are still 7 pieces of int'l coverage. --MrClog (talk) 19:00, 23 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Not a single Indian news media covered the alleged "riots and lynchings"? Not even the media outlets likes of NDTV, Scroll.in, The Hindu, The Print, The Wire etc.? All of them are well known for being staunch critics of current ruling party and their political ideology. Why not cite them too in the references? Hemant DabralTalk 06:43, 24 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I'm unsure what you are trying to say. --MrClog (talk) 17:46, 26 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Hemant Dabral: You may wish to see (this report) report published by an Indian news outlet. For violence-related, please see (this), (this), and (riot-like situation). All these sources are from those sites you wanted to see. TheBirdsShedTears (talk) 11:36, 27 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comment/General note: Hemant Dabral why your removed the cited content from the article? When i asked for a comment on your talk page, you removed your talk page content too? Why? Be mindful, Wikipedia is not a battleground. If an editor disagrees Verifiability, then how they make edits on Wikipedia and on what basis? Please explain! Please note, Wikipedia is not a crystal ball, Wikipedia is not a forum to "publish one's own thoughts". Since, you've vandalized the article replacing the "perps" parameter content (infobox) with a redundant text based on biased and personal views, you may wish to see the consequences of vandalism. In case you failed to restore the said content, it may be interpreted a direct violation of WP:RS and may be undone per WP:RVAN. TheBirdsShedTears (talk) 05:01, 24 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I've got your message, I've read your message and I deleted it which I reserve the right to do on my user talk page.

Now coming to the editing part, I've edited the controversial WP:POV parts of the article that's full of biases and personal views sourced from op-eds, targetting a particular community. Go ahead and make the change you desire as you've been talking for the last couple of days. Have I stopped you from reverting my edits? So go ahead and don't troll me about it on my talk page or in here. Hemant DabralTalk 06:31, 24 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Explain in detail who is funding me. Is it minorities or any other people, government or organization? or restrain from using such a blunt accusations. See WP:PA TheBirdsShedTears (talk) 09:13, 24 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: "Popele distributing food", and "People across country with no connection to the gathering attacked" source CNN. This source covers both missionary members as well as those people who are not linked to the organization. Following the violence, "farmers driven out of villages" (not linked to organization) source BloombergQuint (a news outlet based in India). Therefore, merging it to the 2020 Tablighi Jamaat coronavirus hotspot in Delhi sound clueless. TheBirdsShedTears (talk) 09:01, 24 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Some editors have shown nothing, but a series of comments citing to 2020 Tablighi Jamaat coronavirus hotspot in Delhi. The Jamaat is only about Jamaat and not about attacks against minorities that covers "villagers", "farmers" and the victims who are not linked to the missionary. As a matter of fact, they have undermined the notable sources that covers the subject straightforward. TheBirdsShedTears (talk) 17:50, 24 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I note, falsified and same comment as widely posted above. Upon observing the whole discussion, i came to know that it is a case of WP:JDLI. The facts is that; citing to WP:POVFORK in discussion doesn't support one's claims as well. Furthermore, if you have find any unsourced content in the article, you can remove this. Thank you and happy editing. TheBirdsShedTears (talk) 07:24, 25 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
You simply have your own point of view, hence you cant agree upon most of the users here. Just because people do not agree with you does not necessarily mean WP:JDLI. If that is the case there wouldnt be a space for discussion on any topics. Furthermore, not only is this Wikipedia:Tendentious editing but also misaligned with the actual reports. The articles you added all point to only sentiments, but not actual riots which is Wikipedia:No original research. If needed, this article can instead be referenced in 2-3 lines, which actually has been referenced here: Coronavirus in India. Hence, it is needless to say that this article should be deleted instead. --Hari147 (talk) 04:00, 26 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
This is unfortunate that editors who have been registered with Wikipedia since years do not make a balanced contribution to AfD. One should note that personal taste is not applicable to AfD. It is surprising your one of articles exists on non-notable sources, but you never regret for this, while the articles that are supported by notable sources are WP:POVFORK for you. In fact, you should improve your article creation for now before making false claims. Thank you and happy editing. TheBirdsShedTears (talk) 11:10, 27 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The article I wrote was on a billion dollar company that is publicly listed on multiple stock exchanges. If you want to dispute the sources then feel free to do so in that article's talk page, not here. The discussion here is regarding the one you wrote. And please don't take this as a personal attack but fallacies should be the last thing hosted on this platform. Don't drag WP:JDL here, that's a poor response to a claim that your whole article was written on imaginary narrative building. - TheodoreIndiana (talk) 13:48, 27 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.