The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Nousernamesleft (talk) 21:03, 20 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

David Zhang[edit]

David Zhang (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)

Person won the Starcraft micro-tournament, but I still don't think that it really makes him all that notable. Only one website lists him briefly, so there isn't much verifiable content, either. ----Адам12901 ^T/_C 18:12, 15 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This debate has been added to the list of video game related deletions. MrKIA11 (talk) 18:25, 15 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete — Certainly fails to establish out-of-universe (i.e. outside of StarCraft) notability. It also arguably (that I mean borderline) construes WP:DIRECTORY. MuZemike (talk) 19:05, 15 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment Isn't StarCraft an official sport in South Korea? (See StarCraft professional competition). So technically would this David Zhang person count as a national sports champion? -- Patar knight - ^chat/_{contributions} 21:06, 15 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

He won a micro-tournament...hockey is a national sport in Canada, but a person who wins a micro-tournament in Regina isn't a national sports champion there. ----Адам12901 ^T/_C 19:15, 16 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

A micro tournament isn't like a lower league, it's just another type of play. This is where you only start out with a few units (e.g. less than 5), and defeat the other player. It's definitely not as notable, but I'm Canadian and don't know much about the US starcraft scene. --Patar knight - ^chat/_{contributions} 22:15, 16 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep, providing that the stipulated media coverage can be found - "The two major game channels in South Korea, Ongamenet and MBCGame, each run a Starleague, viewed by millions of fans." With that many viewers I would hazard to guess that there is plenty of Korean media coverage, kind of like American Idol in the US (unless I'm overestimating its popularity within Korea). However, this coverage may not extend into English-speaking regions. It's not an in-universe matter; rather, it's a matter of there being or not being coverage outside of Korea, and therefore a matter of relevance with regard to English-language Wikipedia's readers. SharkD (talk) 00:20, 16 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• I'll go a bit further. Keep, providing that the stipulated media coverage can be found, translated, or demonstrated to exist along with the possibility of translation. This is not a large matter, but it is best resolved quickly when it does arise. The value of a source does not depend on its language. The core principles and notability mention language only once, and then it is to say that English sources are preferable to non-English sources if they're of equal quality and translations should be provided. Doing otherwise would cripple or destroy much of our coverage of non-English (especially non-Western) mythology, culture, geography and even such things as cuisine. The fact that the minority of our traffic comes from natively English-speaking countries makes it clear that this is an international encyclopedia in English, not an encyclopedia for those parts of the world that happen to be in English. I can fetch the rest of my arguments, but I'd rather go do something else so hopefully this is settled.
  As such, we need to find out about the Korean media coverage to make an informed decision. --Kizor 14:59, 16 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Yahoo Babel Fish translation[1] makes translating a page a 5 second affair. Who knows? There's certainly a valid claim to notability as indicated above. We should jump at any opportunity to move Wikipedia away from the accepted inherent bias towards english speaking subjects. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Icemotoboy (talk • contribs) 17:08, 16 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This isn't a bias issue—let's not confuse the matter. Notability is our concern here. Showing notability with a foreign-language source is completely acceptable, if that is what is needed. I'm not familiar with this micro-tournament. Can someone explain it? Pagrashtak 20:43, 16 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

A micro-tournament is when each player gets a small amount of units (e.g. less than 5), and eliminates the other team. So its less macro-management, and more micro-management (hence the name) and tatical skill. --Patar knight - ^chat/_{contributions} 22:15, 16 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete, possible speedy delete as hoax A quick translation of the header of the box provided in the source gives us "The interspace strives for hegemony (Starcraft) V1.08 | The legal copy copy, contains all background music, the film title tail leader." While poorly translated, it looks like a site for downloading Starcraft, and probably doesn't mention this David Zhang person at all. --Patar knight - ^chat/_{contributions} 22:18, 16 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. Fails WP:N, WP:V. --Jack-A-Roe (talk) 05:12, 20 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.