- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. ✗plicit 14:59, 24 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Eastern Indonesia Malay
[edit]- Eastern Indonesia Malay (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)
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A hoax of sorts, with questionable English prose. These languages do exist, but there are a few major issues with this article:
- The classification provided is inaccurate and doesn't appear to follow either of the purported sources (Glottolog and Ethnologue). I think it's a weird mash-up, partially drawing on geography. For example, Manado Malay and North Moluccan Malay are very closely related ("Manadoic Malay" in Glottolog), yet they're listed separately here (owing to their different locations?). The rather mysterious Bacan Malay shows no special relationship to these languages, yet the author insists on listing it under North Moluccan Malay. (In fact, Bacan is very different from all of these languages -- it's not a lingua franca/trade language, let alone a creole.)
- Some of the varieties (Sula Malay, Gorontalo Malay) are underdocumented and not even listed in the two sources. People in the Sula Islands actually speak something closer to Ambonese Malay, but I don't think anyone has described the situation there.
- I don't think Vanimo Malay exists. Some people in the area do speak Indonesian/Papuan Malay, but I'm unaware of it being considered a distinct variety. Again, no mention of it whatsoever in the declared sources!
- "Ethnicity: Malays and various other ethnicities" -- this is very misleading. These languages are mostly used by unrelated eastern Indonesian groups, some of which have adopted them as their primary languages. The Bacan people are thought to have migrated from Borneo, but they have their own ethnic identity too. I believe the same holds true for Larantuka/Nagi.
- The article fails to mention that the characterization of these as creole languages isn't widely accepted (see discussion in Kluge, Angela (2017). A Grammar of Papuan Malay. Studies in Diversity Linguistics 11. Berlin: Language Science Press). Compared to every other issue, however, this isn't such a big deal. Semmiii (talk) 14:10, 17 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Language and Indonesia. Shellwood (talk) 14:11, 17 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2023 June 17. —cyberbot ITalk to my owner:Online 14:31, 17 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete unless someone can suggest an appropriate redirect target. Mccapra (talk) 19:45, 17 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- I think the page Malay trade and creole languages would work as a redirect target (but it isn't the greatest either!). Oh, and a bit of a comment: considering this edit description, I don't believe the editor is keen on remeding the problem (which would amount to rewriting a significant portion of the article). Semmiii (talk) 20:42, 17 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete or redirect Malay trade and creole languages per nom. This is another product of an editor with serious CIR-issues and a total unwillingness to communicate (if not learn from their past blunders). –Austronesier (talk) 19:06, 19 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.