The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to Boxing at the 1924 Summer Olympics – Welterweight. ✗plicit 12:39, 25 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Emmanouil Gneftos (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)

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Gneftos was a non-medaling competitor in the Olympics. I search multiple places for significant coverage and found none. John Pack Lambert (talk) 12:12, 2 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Boxing, Olympics, and Greece. Shellwood (talk) 12:20, 2 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• The article on the Greek WP states "He is referred to as the champion of Egypt and Greece for fifteen years" via translation, so I guess there's probably some coverage of him in Greek/Egyptian sources. In the event of those not being found, then redirect to Boxing at the 1924 Summer Olympics – Welterweight per WP:ATD, WP:PRESERVE, WP:R#KEEP and WP:CHEAP. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 12:58, 2 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Redirect to Boxing at the 1924 Summer Olympics – Welterweight. I could find nothing but database entries in English. It is certainly possible that sources exist in Greek or other languages, if so my mind could easily be changed. Jacona (talk) 12:30, 3 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Striking my vote based on info provided by Chalk19 below. Jacona (talk) 10:35, 7 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Is there a website containing old Greek and/or Egyptian newspaper archives? If there is any, I'd say that's where the SIGCOV is at. BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:03, 3 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep The sources on Greek Wikipedia indicate that SIGCOV exists, especially in light of his career as a referee and his activity in other sports. Although I cannot seem to access them, the policy is to assume good faith. EternalNomad (talk) 15:16, 5 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Verifibility means articles must be based on the actual sources, not the hand-waing unverified claim that sources must exist.John Pack Lambert (talk) 17:28, 5 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

    and monkey-throwing-poop quality claims that sources can't be found, from an editor who shows on a daily basis that he can'tresearch properly, deserve no credence whatever! 166.149.176.57 (talk) 20:11, 5 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Can you point out which of the Greek wikipedia sources constitute SIGCOV? At least two of them are dead links and none seems to mention the subject more than in passing. Avilich (talk) 21:48, 5 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  According to WP:AGF, we should assume, even though they are difficult to access (the former is a dead link), references 3 and 5 in Greek Wikipedia talk about a number of his activities beyond competing in the Olympics (unless there is a compelling reason to believe that they are WP:FAKE). EternalNomad (talk) 23:30, 5 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  AGF, a behavioral guideline, says nothing of the sort. If sources can't be verified they don't count. Avilich (talk) 23:36, 5 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  @Avilich The dead link sources are to digital versions of printed sources, that is to articles of the mainstream Greek sports daily Αθλητική Ηχώ (Athletic Echo) in 1950. These sources are valid as any other printed source; the online availability is just a matter of convenience. Whether these two articles deal in passing with Gneftos or not is another issue. ǁǁǁ ǁ Chalk19 (talk) 08:08, 7 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Redirect He was disqualified at his opening fight in the Olympics and there's no other indication of WP notability. Assuming good faith does not mean we can dispense with the requirement of good sources. The burden of proof is on those who claim notability and right now I don't see it. A redirect seems reasonable. Papaursa (talk) 22:28, 6 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep As stated in the Greek WP article, he was a champion in rowing and second in canoe championship in Egypt (cited source [in Greek], with photo: Αθλητική Επιθεώρησις [Athletic Review], Dec. 1923, p. 12 [1]). In another issue of the same sports monthly review (Αθλητική Επιθεώρησις, Aug. 1923, pp. 12-13) he is referred to as a champion in boxing in Egypt. Although in the cases above it is not clear if Gneftos was a champnion just among the Egyptian Greeks, even this is a pretty significant achievement and an indication (at least) of notability. ǁǁǁ ǁ Chalk19 (talk) 08:28, 7 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I am not convinced by this since there's no evidence of what championships he competed in or that the coverage was significant. I suspect that he doesn't meet WP:NSPORT and would still like more evidence that WP:GNG is met. However, I am striking my redirect vote, at least for now, in the hopes that more evidence of notability can be presented. Papaursa (talk) 13:16, 7 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: evidence of sources would be helpful in establishing consensus
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Star Mississippi 02:31, 11 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, – AssumeGoodWraith (talk | contribs) 03:33, 19 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment Wikipedia is supposed to be based on verifiable information, evidence and sources, not opinions, so it's pretty depressing looking at a deletion debate based on whether individuals are personally convinced by sources that none have apparently read. Does anyone actually have access to the Greek newspaper articles from the 1950's? If none of us do, maybe we should defer to someone who does? Elemimele (talk) 12:38, 19 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Redirect. We can't keep an article on the possibility of some sources meeting the requirements of WP:GNG - articles can be used as sources without counting towards WP:GNG, and the Greek Wikipedia has different policies for the use of sources than the English Wikipedia. BilledMammal (talk) 08:07, 20 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Redirect Since no one has provided additional sourcing or evidence of WP notability in the past two weeks, I have reposted my original vote. His Olympic participation would be the likely reason someone would search for him and a redirect preserves that information. Papaursa (talk) 00:18, 21 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Redirect per the reasoning above. Actual sources need to be identified for us to assess whether GNG is met, and so far we don't have anything to go off. JoelleJay (talk) 23:09, 22 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Redirect Nobody has shown that the GNG is met. Sandals2 (talk) 20:41, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Redirect. If there are sources we’re not seeing them and this has had plenty of time.Jacona (talk) 22:14, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.