The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Per additional sources provided by voters and consensus. (non-admin closure) Peter303x (talk) 23:11, 22 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Joe Forte[edit]

Joe Forte (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

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Unsourced biography that fails WP:BIO. Fails WP:GNG as well as no significant coverage in reliable sources can be found. Geoff | ^{Who, me?} 21:04, 2 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 22:09, 2 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Artists-related deletion discussions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 22:10, 2 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of New Jersey-related deletion discussions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 22:10, 2 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete there is zero professional recognition as a painter, so I took out that mention. That leaves films. He did one major film that received numerous reviews, but cumulatively the reviews say little about him. Overall, a GNG fail. --- Possibly ☎ 22:39, 2 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep. The major film, Firewall is sufficient for a place in Wikipedia. Those who may wish to do research in the back issues of Daily Variety or Hollywood Reporter will find more information that can be used for inline cites, but the current absence of such cites is a reason for finding and including them, not a reason for deletion of Forte's entry. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 23:14, 2 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. Roman Spinner can you share links to the reviews you mentioned? I am not able to find these. I am undecided on this and if we could see those I would likely vote weak keep. --Tautomers_{(T C)} 23:22, 2 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Roman Spinner, one single screenplay guarantees notability? I don't believe that to be true, so I strongly encourage you not to say "ah well there's references somewhere", but to actually supply them. The absence of reliable sources is, in fact, a reason for deletion. Drmies (talk) 00:31, 3 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • Tautomers and Drmies, examining subject's website and his IMDb page has convinced me that his notability is sufficient for inclusion in Wikipedia. There are some easy-to-find mentions of him in various reviews: [1][2][3][4][5][6] however, as is standard with all such matters, the ultimate decision rests with consensus. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 01:45, 3 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
      • Roman Spinner, I don't know that all those count (the assholes?), but it sure was good to read something about the Ben Hur documentary, just to know what it's all about--thanks. Drmies (talk) 01:48, 3 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete Thanks for gathering the sources. While this does indicate he got some coverage, the sources themselves are flimsy and in themselves don't seem like they would count as very strong. They also feel sort of blog-like. While it does seem like he's got some recognition and had a successful screenplay, the lack of good sources validating its impact leads me to believe this doesn't hit notability criteria. --Tautomers_{(T C)} 02:29, 3 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

*Keep. I believe one major film (Firewall) and a documentary shown at a notable film festival[7], as well as being kept in the USC library [8] are worthy enough for a Wikipedia page. The subject also speaks at a variety of events so this Wikipedia page is useful for those in attendance. I know I saw he did a Film Independent Documentary Lab [9] where he spoke and it was useful to have his page to reference. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.169.57.14 (talk • contribs) 04:00, 3 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Merge to Firewall (film) Delete - There is nothing to substantiate that this artist/filmmaker passes the notability criteria of WP:NARTIST/WP:FILMMAKER, or WP:GNG. It is WP:TOOSOON for this to be included; maybe in a few years after actual WP:SIGCOV is written about him. BTW, the IP who wrote the comment directly above mine needs to add their signature. Netherzone (talk) 14:56, 3 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Changing my !vote to merge, which makes a lot of sense. Thanks to Djflem for this alternative to deletion. Netherzone (talk) 20:35, 3 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Merge > Firewall (film) Djflem (talk) 18:11, 3 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep Per user guidelines WP:AVOIDCOI I am disclosing that I have a vested interest in this page as I am the subject. I believe this page was created by Warner Brothers in 2005-2006 upon the release of "Firewall (film)" and has been up for 15 plus years. As a novice, I attempted to update this page and failed to provide proper citation. For that I want to express my apologies, and also my appreciation for this community's rigor in keeping with Wiki's mission. I provide the following citation for the editor's reviews: Regarding "Firewall (film)" and my career as a screenwriter of note, I was included in the 2009 documentary Tales From the Script which is a compendium of notable screenwriters of the period:[10] Tales From the Script was also released as a book with the same title and is still available in print. [11] In both the film and book I discuss my career and my process. During this time I was also interviewed widely about my process in the following journals: WGA Magazine, February 2006 [12] Creative Screening Writing, January February 2006, article by David Konow (for which there is no online link) and Final Draft's Script Magazine, November/December 2011 in which my career as a writer, painter and director of The Man Who Saved Ben-Hur are of the focus of the article and puts me in the company of the most notable screenwriters of that period. [13] On Friday, February 10th, 2006, "Firewall (film)" was reviewed in the New York Times by Manola Dargis and I was specifically mentioned by name. [14] I have had numerous projects announced in Daily Variety, including Soviet Cowboy (1996) which I wrote for two-time academy award winner "Jodie Foster" and French Film director "Mathieu Kassovitz". On Wednesday, October 24, 2007 an article appeared in Daily Variety announcing that I was to adapt Natsuo Kirino's novel "Out (novel)" which won Japan's Grand Prix Award for crime fiction. There are currently no online links, but I can provide scans of hard copies if required by the editor. In 2013, I became a Film Independent Fellow of Film Independent's Documentary Director's Lab with my film The Man Who Saved Ben-Hur. [15] In 2015, The Man Who Saved Ben-Hur premiered at a host of notable film festivals including DocUtah [16] and Hot Springs Film Festival [17] The Man Who Saved Ben-Hur was release in 2016 and continues to stream on Amazon where is in wide circulation and well reviewed [18] As noted above, The Man Who Saved Ben-Hur is part of the USC film archive [19] Regarding my work as a painter, which is integrally intertwined with my career as a filmmaker and visual artist, I offer the following references. World on Fire, Center for the Arts, Eagle Rock (2021) [20] On Men, Castelli Art Space (2019) [21] The End of Paper, Center for the Arts Eagle Rock (2017) [22] Nothing is Waster, Center for the Arts, Eagle Rock (2015) [23] Seeing Double, Pomona, California [24] Wonder, James Grey Gallery, Bergamot Station (2008) and Opening Day, The Regency Gallery (2007) [25] All of these shows have taken place in the thriving, international arts hub of Los Angeles. The 2007 show, in particular, was part of Los Angeles Downtown arts and seen by thousands of visitors. [26] As a filmmaker, writer and artist I belong to a specific time and place in Los Angeles culture and the film community and have worked with several of the leading artists of my time. As my career is not complete and I am still working (I am adapting the comic book series Back Track at Sony's 3000 pictures with Ruben Fleischer (Zombieland) directing), I believe it is premature to assess the impact I have had, and that impact cannot be fairly assessed if my page is buried or not to be found. Finally, to subsume me in the "Firewall (film)" is unfair as I am the originator and author of that project, and therefore a separate entity from Warner Brothers whose contribution to the film was as financier and distributor, and not as one of the key and primary filmmakers. Again, thank you for your rigor and kind consideration in this matter. 76.169.57.14 (talk) 23:38, 7 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thanks for the time you spent assembling these links, but they are more like what one might list on a resume or cv, and not an encyclopedia. What is needed to establish notability is significant coverage WP:SIGCOV (more than a mention) in secondary (not primary, such as interviews) verifiable WP:V reliable sources WP:RS that are independent of the subject of the article. So blogs, amazons sales links or reviews or film rental links, user-submitted content like IMDb, calendar listings, announcements, press releases, PR material and the like do not count towards meeting notability criteria. If you can narrow the above down to 3 or 4 that you think might fit SIGCOV in RS, that will help the editors here to analyze the material. What is important is what others (art and film critics for example) have said about you. Merging content into the notable film Firewall is definitely not a bad option. Netherzone (talk) 00:17, 8 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Replu: Sorry Netherzone but the list of references given here are more than sufficient and your tiny paragraph here doesn't even put a dent in it. Dr. Universe (talk) 21:17, 22 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment Double !Voting is not permitted. IP 76.169.57.14 you have iVoted twice, one in an "unsigned" comment on July 3, and again on July 7. I have taken the liberty to strike your first K**p. Netherzone (talk) 00:29, 8 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep: Roman Spinner and 76.169.57.14 have provided more than enough non-primary resources. Dr. Universe (talk) 21:17, 22 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.