![]() | This discussion was subject to a deletion review on 2008 June 23. For an explanation of the process, see Wikipedia:Deletion review. |
The result was delete. I do realize this is an extremely contentious issue and I full well expect to see my decision contested on DRV, but to be honest, I doubt that any closure would survive without being contested in some manner. A review of the several previous deletion debates over this list shows that the community's desire to keep it has clearly been waning and this discussion is certainly following in that pattern. It is obvious that the list suffers numerous issues and many of the arguments for keeping this material are rooted in the claim that these issues warrant cleanup and rewriting rather than deletion. However, several salient arguments have been put forward that these issues are egregious and multiple and that no amount of cleanup will salvage the article. During the course of the debate a number of editors were convinced to change their recommendations from keep to delete, but I don't see that going in reverse. Finally, a number of the keep !votes were, rather than any kind of rationale for keeping the material itself, were calls to close the discussion for what were perceived as procedural violations rather than arguing that the material is inclusion worthy itself. To put it more succinctly, the arguments being made in favor of deletion are stronger than those made for keeping this material. In tandem with the fact that, over time, consensus in each debate seems to be straying from keep and trending closer to delete, I do not feel that closing as "no consensus" will be of any aid except to stave off deletion until the next debate rolls around. Shereth 03:16, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Procedural nomination. There has been a lot of recent discussion about whether this page is needed, and it has been a year since the last AfD, so let's put it to a discussion. Darrenhusted (talk) 12:42, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Objections to procedural nomination archived, as enough people have given deletion rationale below |
---|
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
|
...the most reliable sources are peer-reviewed journals and books published in university presses; university-level textbooks; magazines, journals, and books published by respected publishing houses; and mainstream newspapers. .... Academic and peer-reviewed publications are highly valued and usually the most reliable sources in areas where they are available, such as history, medicine and science. Material from reliable non-academic sources may also be used in these areas, particularly if they are respected mainstream publications.
Comment just to re-emphasize, the fact that this afd even exists is a mistake and it should have been shut down as soon as it started. The afd was brought by someone who believed keep was correct and now it's a debate about the content, not the existance. This should have been closed long ago,--Cube lurker (talk) 21:50, 14 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It would behoove this project to strip out these "courtesy links" wherever found leaving only the bare reference to the original source. --Justallofthem (talk) 19:14, 16 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]"Linking to a page that illegally distributes someone else's work sheds a bad light on Wikipedia and its editors."
Log on and join in, but beware the web cults
Charles Arthur
The Guardian, December 15, 2005
"Wikipedia, and so many other online activities, show all the outward characteristics of a cult. Which, by my (computer's) dictionary definition, means "a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object; a relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister; a misplaced or excessive admiration for a particular person or thing; a person or thing that is popular or fashionable, esp. among a particular section of society, 'a cult film'.
Certainly the latter definition could easily be used for Wikipedia. I also think the first ones are appropriate. There is a quasi-religious fervour surrounding the "rightness" of Wikipedia, or Apple's products, or RSS vs Atom. To outsiders, it makes little or no sense. To those inside, it is the most important topic they can imagine."
"Former sect leader appeals conviction in son's starvation death" - 2007-09-06, Boston Globe/AP: "Jacques was under the delusional brainwashing of this cult, and he was incapable of independent thought," said Janet Pumphrey, Robidoux's appellate lawyer." "COLD-BLOODED CULT; Journal shows sect let baby starve 'in God's hands'" - 2004-02-05, Boston Herald abstract: ""Our prayers should not be for Samuel to be healed but for God's purposes to be fulfilled. This is all we can do for Samuel," cult member Rebecca Corneau wrote in a journal entry 12 days before 11- month-old Samuel Robidoux died."
"U.S. Alerts Israel on Cult; Plan for Suicide Is Feared" - 1998-10-24, New York Times: "Israel has been alerted that a Colorado doomsday cult that may be planning mass suicide could be on its way here, the United States Embassy said today. Several dozen members of the cult, Concerned Christians, sold their belongings and left their homes before Oct. 10, the day their leader predicted that Denver would be destroyed by an earthquake marking the start of the apocalypse. The leader, Monte Kim Miller, has said he will die in Jerusalem in December 1999 and reappear three days later." .... "This guy's influence is perhaps even greater than we'd thought, said Officer Roggeman, who monitors cult activity. I have gotten calls from Houston, New Mexico, all over, from people who knew their friends or family were in the group but never knew how dangerous it was or that this was going on." "Cult members deported from Israel" - 1999-01-09, BBC News: "[Israeli] Police said the Concerned Christians were suspected of planning unspecified "extreme acts of violence" in an attempt to hasten the second coming of Jesus, which they believe will take place at the end of the millennium." .... "They did not deny the fact that they are waiting here in Israel to wait for the return of Jesus, but they say they will not be involved in any illegal activity," said lawyer Eran Avital."
Inclusion criteria for List of groups referred to as cults currently installed (2008-06-22)
- 1. Listing is based on a single academic or government reference, or two media references, to reliable sources,
- (A) as a "cult" in North American English; or,
- (B) as a "sect" or "cult" in British English only if contextually intended to mean "cult" in North American English; or,
- (C) as any foreign language word or phrase with a plain text translation and contextual intention to mean "cult" in North American English;
- (D) using any non-excluded definition.
- 2. Organizations, and sets of individual practitioners, including those referenced or named by their technical practice of cult (cultus), qualify as groups.
- 3. Listable groups must be referenced within the last 50 years.
- 4. Excluded from listing are cultural or personality cults (artistic, celebrity or political fan-cults), or groups that don't have actual followings (fictional or self-nominated groups). If a reference claims that a group's other cult activities are more significant than its fan-cult, it becomes listable.
- 5. In list items where the reference keywords are different from "cult" only, each reference to a group is followed by parentheses containing the actual word(s) referring to them; formatted like (secte), or (cult/secte/sekte) for multiple references.
1920+ inclusion criterion for List of groups referred to as cults installed from Aug 6, 2006 to Oct 25, 2007
- Groups referenced must not have been named by reliable sources to independently exist prior to 1920 in their substantially present form of beliefs and earthly practices."
Rename List of groups referred to as cults to List of groups referred to as cults and founded 1920 onward (Suggested discussion acronym "LOGRTAC20")
Create the following articles: List of groups referred to as cults and founded 1919 or prior (Suggested discussion acronym "LOGRTAC19") List of groups referred to as cults following popular culture (Suggested discussion acronym "LOGRTACFC")