The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. A merger can be discussed elsewhere, separately from this AFD. There were no convincing policy-based arguments for deleting this article completely without preserving at least some of the content in another form (WP:PRESERVE). SoWhy 12:39, 10 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Mamie Lincoln Isham (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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Fails WP:BIO. The only reason she has a page is that she's Abraham Lincoln's granddaughter. There's literally nothing else of note here, and notability isn't inherited. That's Wikipedia 101. Kbabej (talk) 22:44, 2 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Kbabej (talk) 22:48, 2 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of New York-related deletion discussions. Kbabej (talk) 01:48, 3 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Illinois-related deletion discussions. Kbabej (talk) 19:07, 3 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. Kbabej (talk) 19:57, 3 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep - Lincoln's family is written about in depth in numerous sources, such as Neely, Mark E., and Harold Holzer. The Lincoln Family Album. Doubleday, 1990. and Lachman, Charles. The Last Lincolns: The Rise and Fall of a Great American Family. Sterling Publishing Company, 2008. The index of the later is visible to me on google books, here, and shows she is discussed on 23 pages. Neither of these are overly academic, but seem ok. Smmurphy^(Talk) 00:10, 4 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep -- a reasonably sourced article on a historical figure. Also per sources presented above. K.e.coffman (talk) 01:38, 4 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete -- This is a classic case of notability not being inherited. I have no issue on verification, but she was completely NN. This also applies to the children of Tony Blair, the father of Theresa May, and the brother of Jimmy Carter. Peterkingiron (talk) 23:50, 5 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete: notability is not conferred, when otherwise lacking, based on or by virtue of being related to a notable individual. Quis separabit? 03:39, 8 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete: There just doesn't seem to be much in the way of noteworthiness here. Other than her famous grandfather she doesn't appear to have any notability in her own right. Cthomas3 (talk) 07:07, 9 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Merge to an article on Descendants of Abraham Lincoln, along with other nominated family members (see also Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/William Wallace Lincoln). bd2412 T 22:56, 9 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Note that deletion arguments above ignore WP:NOTTEMPORARY. Lincoln descendants where a topic of intense public interest in the 20th century, widely covered in books and media. they do not lose notability merely because some editors find them uninteresting. Moreover, what WP:NOTINHERITED actually says is: "The fact of having a famous relative is not, in and of itself, sufficient to justify an independent article. Individuals in close, personal relationships with famous people (including politicians) can have an independent article even if they are known solely for such a relationship, but only if they pass WP:GNG." Available sourcing on Isham certainly passes GNG. Beware presentism! She was a national figure in my great-granddpapa's day. And those old sources continue to support notability, as do, of course, recent articles and books like those cited above by [[User:Smmurphy.E.M.Gregory (talk) 11:36, 10 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep Due to the WP:SIG that continued not only during her lifetime, but, especially, after her death, like this [1] 2017 detailed revisiting of her life in the Journal-Courier, but especially in books.E.M.Gregory (talk) 10:56, 10 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Here is the obit that ran in the NYTimes: Mrs Isham Dies; Was Lincoln's Kin; Granddaughter of President a Daughter of Robert Todd Lincoln, Ex-War Secretary OWNED FAMOUS PORTRAIT Emancipator's Likeness Now to Hang in White House if a Position Suitable Is Found, New York Times, 22 November 1938 [2]. Lengthy and detailed. As always, obits in major national newspapers are taken to establish notability.E.M.Gregory (talk) 11:05, 10 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• At the time of her death, Isham was the owner of the Healy Portrait of Lincoln, which had been left to her by her mother. It now in teh White House collection.E.M.Gregory (talk) 11:14, 10 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Note that AFDs on Lincoln descendants come up form time to time, I think the arguments for Keeping were particularly well stated at last summer's discussion: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mary Lincoln Beckwith.E.M.Gregory (talk) 10:56, 10 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.