The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. A near unanimous keep. There is a considered consensus, developed as the discussion progressed, that WP:NOTNEWS does not apply to the event, and that the event meets WP:EVENT. There is a proposal to re-name the article, which can be discussed on its talk page (non-admin closure) Mkativerata (talk) 06:01, 28 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Manila shootout

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One of the several gang vs. police encounters, not withstanding the high death toll, this like several of the others. Qajar (talk) 17:17, 20 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - as nominator. Qajar (talk) 17:17, 20 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Keep If 12 gang members, 4 bystanders and a policeman were killed in a shootout anywhere in the United States, there would be no debate whatsoever. Mandsford (talk) 17:31, 20 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy Keep for failing to provide any valid rationale for deleting whatsoever. Blodance the Seeker 17:35, 20 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Philippines-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 19:44, 20 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Crime-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 19:44, 20 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, WP:NOTNEWS. Guy (Help!) 19:44, 20 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Keep This was a massive shootout, that much is very quickly apparant. Clearly notable. Blood Red Sandman ^{(Talk) (Contribs)} 20:01, 20 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. The nominator failed to tag the article with ((afd1)), so I did so on their behalf. I take the nominator's stance to be that the event is not notable, which may be true - was there any lingering coverage of the event? Have there been subsequent incidents of this scale, or is this notable as the largest such shootout in the Phillippines (for example)? NOTNEWS applies as well, but follow-up coverage of the shootout's impact on the city and region (increased security, etc) would mitigate that. UltraExactZZ ^Said~ Did 20:35, 20 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

That strikes me as a much stricter standard for notability than we insist upon for such incidents when they happen in the United States, Great Britain, Australia, Canada, etc. In answer to the question, their seems to be lingering coverage of the event [1]. Mandsford (talk) 21:23, 20 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'd want the same for something in the US, for example - if something happens, and there's an article in the paper about it, and it's never discussed or mentioned again, you can't really call the event a notable one, in my mind. If there's follow-on coverage, that's a pretty good indication of the impact (and notability) of the event. The trick here might be that there is so much more media in the US (and, thus, media coverage) that more events get that follow-on in-depth coverage. The link you provide does indicate that such coverage exists here, though, so I'd now move to Keep. UltraExactZZ ^Said~ Did 21:03, 21 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Subject is definitely notable, statement by nominator seems incoherent. RadManCF (talk) 00:00, 21 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I found it hard to understand why people would think a major street shootout, in which 17 people died, is not notable. Just because it is unknown in the United States and/or lacking English sources does NOT make it anywhere near non-notable. Blodance the Seeker 01:26, 21 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep and possibly rename I'm inclined to delete per WP:NOTNEWS, but some of the arguments above convince me that this does in fact meet WP:EVENT. Should this be moved to Parañaque shootout? A Stop at Willoughby (talk) 06:49, 21 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per Mandsford and my comments, above. UltraExactZZ ^Said~ Did 21:03, 21 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.