The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete JERRY ^talk _contribs 05:01, 7 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Maurizio Giuliano (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

Non-notable author and UN official. The article neither meets WP:BIO nor WP:PROF: he has not been the subject of published secondary source material which is reliable, intellectually independent, and independent of the subject. Nothing suggests that he is regarded as an important figure or is widely cited by his peers or successors.

• He published two books but none of them appear to be notable. The back cover of the books (providing information about the author) are not independent of the subject.
• It appears that he was expelled from Burma [1] some ten years ago, but that neither seems exceptional nor widely documented in reliable secondary sources.
• He claimed to hold the world record of being the youngest person to have travelled all sovereign countries, but this is not backed by multiple, reliable sources (I asked for confirmation here and again here but was not able to obtain sources).

(Full disclosure: although this should not have any impact on this Afd, one may be interested in looking at Wikipedia:Suspected_sock_puppets/Myth1727 for more background about some of the contributors of the article.)

Delete. --Edcolins (talk) 10:04, 30 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Re: sockpuppets: I've read 400 lines of the detailed book reviews by Maurizio Giuliano, while not in "American" English, there was not a single grammar or idiom error in the uber-sophisticated reviews (British-Italian birth), which are far above the writing level of the wiki-spamming, so I suspect that any sockpuppets might be politically motived (Cuba?), not self-promotion. -Wikid77 (talk) 12:31, 5 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep – I’m sorry, unless I used a really bad search criteria, I was able to find numerous sources on notability as shown here [2] and here at Google News [3]. In addition, a news article about breaking the record [4] Shoessss |  Chat  14:42, 30 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thanks for your opinion. It seems however that there is nothing tremendous to be found in the Google search for this person. It is not so difficult to build up an Internet presence, and in this case I think that is what happened, at least partially. So, I think more specific, reliable and independent sources about the person himself should be provided to demonstrate notability. So far, in my opinion, nothing reliable has emerged. Regarding the news article you mentioned [5] (which is equivalent to the one I already mentioned above), it only reads that "[he] heads to London today with more than 40 passports filled with immigration, visa and transit stamps to prove his record with the Guinness Book of World Records." It does not say that the record was certified.

More importantly, the news article does not seem to be reliable. It contradicts other sources. The following sources say that he was born in 1975: [6][7] and more. The article, entitled "I’ve been everywhere, man - at 23" but the article was published in 2004, which means that he would be born in 2004-23 = 1981!

Finally, the news articles [8] merely mention his position as UN spokesman. The article does not relate to him! We need reliable sources about him, not just mentioning him as spokesman. --Edcolins (talk) 19:23, 30 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• 'Keep'Weak Keep- Subject has been mentioned in BBC & NYTime articles (above link) and publications demonstrate a permanent and lasting contribution to his field of work. Lazulilasher (talk) 17:51, 30 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • The BBC article mentions that he was expelled from Burma some ten years ago, but this neither seems exceptional nor widely documented in other secondary sources. This is an isolated article: " "Maurizio Giuliano" reporter" : 1 hit , " "Maurizio Giuliano" expelled" : 1 hit , " "Maurizio Giuliano" Burma" : 1 hit . This is not sufficient IMHO.

The NYTime article does not relate to him and only mentions him as a spokesman for the UN, nothing more, like many other articles. This does not meet WP:BIO, as mentioned above. Please reconsider. --Edcolins (talk) 19:23, 30 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, thanks for posting on my talk page regarding this discussion, I appreciate it. Anyway, I do agree that this is a tough decision. While making my choice I did refer to WP:BIO and my decision hinged between these two criteria:

1.) A person is presumed to be notable if he or she has been the subject of published....(WP:BIO, emphasis mine). This agrees with your interpreation (i.e. Giuliano was not the subject of the article, but merely referenced). However, I found it difficult to balance that clause with this one:

2.) The person has made a widely recognized contribution that is part of the enduring historical record in his or her specific field . Thus, I was not able to justify recommending a delete while considering Giuliano's published contributions to his field.

Basically, I believe this discussion boils down to different interpretations of the Bio notability policy and although I respect and agree to an extent with your position, I am still forced to argue for Guilano's inclusion in the encyclopedia. However, in the interest of forming consensus, and out of recognition of your argument, I have changed my position to Weak Keep. Thanks again for notifying me of your reply. Lazulilasher (talk) 19:48, 30 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete Two books that are not widely noted do not a notable person make. There doesn't seem to be anything in the article about the UN spokesman role cited above, so I don't know anything about that. However, I'd venture to guess that there are hordes of UN spokesman. Avruchtalk 03:49, 2 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete Per all of this discussion, I change my mind as well--two little known books do not make someone notable, you folks are correct. I also couldn't find the book on Google books when I went to look a minute ago. Lazulilasher (talk) 01:55, 3 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep Strong Keep. [claims confirmed] For a young person, he seems notable enough, with Italian and Spanish sources: the ABC News claim for record world-traveller seems accurate with 40 passports (each has limited pages for visa stamps), and as confirmed UN press contact for the Central Africa Republic, who (ergo) has toured all nations in Africa, I think this could be referred to Wikipedia:WikiProject Africa, which might need bios on reference authors. IMHO he's more notable than a merged Pokemon character, so let WikiProject Africa decide if they need the information, or possibly move into a list of recent UN Africa press officers. Should we tag the talk-page "WikiProject Africa"? -Wikid77 (talk) 09:06, 5 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Confirmed: Circa October 2007, he is youngest traveller to all nations, for Guinness World Records, see: Enttwist. -Wikid77 10:27, 5 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your contribution to the debate, but... sorry, claims not confirmed! The source you have provided, i.e. Enttwist, is actually a mere copy of an old version of the Wikipedia article on Guinness World Records. The sentence: "Many records also relate to the youngest person who achieved something, such as the youngest person to visit all nations of the world (Maurizio Giuliano)" was added [9] by User:Validmore, a suspected sock puppet of Myth227, and, as mentioned here, IMHO, these edits may come from Maurizio Giuliano himself.

By the way, the site "Enttwist" violates our GFDL license, see Wikipedia:Mirrors and forks.

In other words, the claim (the record) is not confirmed, and we still need reliable sources. Exceptional claims require exceptional sources. --Edcolins (talk) 17:58, 5 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Confirmed: Youngest on 24Feb2004 (age 28 yrs 361 days). -Wikid77 (talk) 12:31, 5 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm? Please cite your sources... (By the way, this contradicts the ABC news report: "Giuliano, 23... "). --Edcolins (talk) 17:58, 5 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Update: I have expanded the empty Talk:Maurizio_Giuliano, listing independent sources, and stamped the article for "((WikiProject Africa))" which needs editors. As the youngest traveller to all nations, he's been all over Africa. For credibility concerns, let's keep some "((fact))" tags in the article, requesting more sources. -Wikid77 (talk) 10:27, 5 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Make him write Wikipedia articles: (me again, Wikid77). As noted above, I've read several detailed book reviews by Maurizio Giuliano, while not using "American" English, there was not a single grammar or idiom error in the uber-sophisticated reviews that compared the histories of various nations or regions, with the needs of the world traveller for hotels, transportation, etc. The reviews were written in a mix of worldwide savvy tending towards the layman, with no "posturing" or pretentious tone, so I don't see any potential personal-bias associated with his WP article. I really feel that he is a notable person, but perhaps followed by over-zealous fans promoting, in limited English, his widely published views on their various wiki websites. -Wikid77 (talk) 12:31, 5 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wikid77, I have removed [10] many of the edits you recently made to the article. I have removed references that may be considered unreliable IMHO (Please see the edit summaries of my recent edits). The two remaining references you added [11] and [12] only mention him as a UN spokesman, which is not enough to confer notability in my opinion. --Edcolins (talk) 18:22, 5 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.