The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. PhilKnight (talk) 19:37, 14 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Nonnie berard

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Nonnie berard (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log • AfD statistics)
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Sigh. I think that its pretty clear that this person is non-notable, but the author of the article feels really strongly that she is, and she maybe doesn't quite meet the criteria for speedy deletion -- she was Crawfish Queen, whatever the heck that is -- so lets go through the process. Herostratus (talk) 03:41, 11 May 2010 (UTC) Herostratus (talk) 03:41, 11 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'm from Louisiana so I'll explain. Crawfish Queen is a beauty Queen title in Louisiana. One goes though numerous beauty pageants around the state and must come out in first place for up to 20. Then a semi final will began where the finalist all faced against each other in a pageant. It is the highest beauty queen title in Louisiana next to Miss Louisiana. Nonnie is also seen as Louisana's idol, many if not all of the girls residing in Louisiana look up to her as their idol. She's even gained the attention of Rich Music Inc. http://richmusicinc.com/ And she's going to star in a feature film. I think this is more then some other people on here, so I see nothing wrong with the page.--174.69.203.49 (talk) 03:57, 11 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Also she is going to be performing on tour at the Cajundome and has performed at Independence stadium and will be heading to New Orleans Arena. I think all these things placed together makes her notble, because I've seen others with much less.--174.69.203.49 (talk) 04:02, 11 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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  • Comment You should read our policy on reliable sourcing. That misses by a wide margin, and it is certainly not an "online news article." It's a submission from her talent agency, AVA Talent, to "PXI Online," apparently (as far as I can tell) an online technology publication that allows people to submit their own news. I'm not sure why someone submitted something about Nonnie's "headling" (sic) tour to a tech publication with coverage of topics like Evaluating WiMax signal quality and "3U PXI Packs a Punch," but... well, there it is.

    For anyone too lazy to click the link, the entirety of the "online news article" is as follows: "Nonnie Berard's headling [SIC] tour. Nonnie Berard, famous Louisiana singer is set to embark on her statewide tour though [SIC] Louisiana." That's literally it. And then it's back to covering technology. Hmmmm... ɠǀɳ̩ςεΝɡbomb 05:35, 11 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment - First, personal knowledge is not used by Wikipedia, second, if it is not notable now, you can re-introduce if and when she does become notable. If it is not notable now, it needs to be deleted now. GregJackP (talk) 23:29, 11 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Neither the tour nor the filming confer notability in and of themselves. Reliable, verifiable coverage in secondary sources does. If she gets a few headlines (technically, one headline article in a reliable publication is insufficient, "multiple" is required) then sure, re-create the article. There are never any guarantees, but if a subject is well-covered in reliable sources the odds of an article on that subject being deleted are very slim. ɠǀɳ̩ςεΝɡbomb 03:09, 12 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I tried to find some additional info to allow any claims notability to be properly evaluated. The only verifiable claim made by the article is about her title as the 2008 Crawfish Queen[1], though all sources cite it as a local event rather than one of statewide importance, most importantly, the official Breaux Bridge Crawfish Festival website, which specifies that the pageant is exclusive to the Breaux Bridge High School District area.
The author also seems to be willfully attempting to misrepresent the importance of the awarded title. There are many such titles at this level, the Crawfish Queen being only one of almost 100 distinct local festival queens of the Louisiana Association of Fairs and Festivals (LAFF), that is, there is at most one unique queen chosen by each participating festival. From this pool of festival queens, a Queen of Queens is chosen. This is the highest pageant-related honor bestowed by the LAFF. Concerning her duration of her reign, the article doesn't specify, though its disputed primary source states that she still holds the title to this day, when she in fact only possessed the title for 2008, and her throne has since been usurped by Tiffany Paige Dore. LAFF Pageants are not in any way related to Miss Louisiana or Miss Louisiana USA. Miss Louisiana candidates are drawn from the winners of a different set of pageants and Miss Louisiana USA pageants do not have a preliminary set of pageants in order to qualify. Therefore, to state that the Crawfish Queen is the highest ranking title after Miss Louisiana is obviously far from correct.
As far as the personal account of attending the competition, sources say that the Crawfish Queen pageant was held at a Hilton Hotel and Towers in Lafayette, LA -- not the (more notable?) Independence Stadium of Shreveport, LA.
While it is technically possibly to set a "national record" for something exclusive to your hometown, the terminology is intentionally misleading. Also, no sources describe her age as unusual in any way for the competition. If considering what other unspecified records could have been broken with respect to other pageants, Logan Travis won Miss Louisiana Teen USA in 2007 at 15, and nationally, Jolene Fulkner won Miss California Teen USA in 1991 at 14.
Regarding the claim to notability based on Twitter friend count, some suggest that ratio of followers to those followed may be a better measure of notability. By this measure, her low ratio (0.45:1) indicates that, not even by Twitter standards, is she likely to be considered notable (not that the friend list is notably large in absolute terms either). Then again, the interpretation of these results is fairly arbitrary, and is not a suitable way to make a claim of notability in the first place.

[...] My [talent] agency created a wiki for me---> [shortened link to Nonnie Berard Wikipedia article] Simply overwhelmed. ;w;

Nonnie Berard (Twitter), via tweet, at 12:51 AM May 10th

And on top of every thing else, it seems pretty likely that some sockpuppetting is going on here... RamenFueled (talk) 10:01, 12 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Please see wp:otherstuffexists. If you find biographies of people with less notability than Miss Berard, nominate them for deletion. Also, things very rarely get deleted without cause, especially not repeatedly. That you don't like the reason does not render it invalid, especially when you have a clear conflict of interest. » scoops “5x5„ 03:58, 13 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Please don't. For one thing, we ignore petitions here, even if they're signed by Barack Obama. For another, if the subject does not meet our notability guidelines, we don't keep the article. Finally, if indeed Ms. Berard doesn't meet our notability guidelines, I doubt that your petition will be getting a lot of legit signatures. -- Blanchardb -Me•MyEars•MyMouth- timed 03:42, 14 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • So was I. The number of signatures you can or cannot get is irrelevant. A petition will not make Miss Berard pass our notability standard. Significant, reliable, independent coverage will. » scoops “5x5„ 04:56, 14 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • You wrote that you doubt that we have the authority to override the president. Actually, we do. Wikipedia is run by a private non-profit corporation, and as such, as long as the site abides by US laws, no one, not even the President, can tell us what to do. Things would be different if Wikipedia were a government site, but it's not. As an aside, I doubt that you'll be able to get Governor Jindal involved if Berard just doesn't meet our notability guidelines. Bottom line, if you want the article kept, there's one way and one way only to do it, and that's to show us that Berard meets at least one of the notability guidelies laid out either at WP:GNG or WP:MUSIC. Failing that, there's quite simply nothing you can do to get the article kept. -- Blanchardb -Me•MyEars•MyMouth- timed 11:10, 14 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]


  • Comment - a Twitter account to "Verify" Nonnie? Twitter is not a verifiable or reliable source, but I'm impressed with the effort you are giving to try and keep the article. GregJackP (talk) 13:40, 14 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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