The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus, after extended time for discussion, although nothing that there is a definite trend towards keeping. Clearly, the article still needs work, or it will likely be subject to further deletion efforts in the future. BD2412 T 01:33, 8 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Off-air pickup (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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Ladies and gentlemen,

I hope that I am not acting in haste: I came across this article by a strange chance and, finding it unsourced for its nearly fourteen years of existence, decided to investigate the term. I find it used nowhere in any scholarly literature; when these exact words do occur in documents, e.g., by the FCC in the order presented, they do not appear to refer to the arrangement written of in the article. A few articles do contain links to this article, but the links seem inaccurate: KHOU contains an instance of the phrase "over the air" which could better direct one to the article on terrestrial television; the term in question is also there invoked as part of an incident that took place in 2017, long after the signals described in the article supposedly ceased to be used. In short, the phrase "off-air pickup" would seem to be little used & little understood, perhaps too obscure for inclusion in the encyclopedia; I leave this to hands & heads more experienced in these matters than I, and I regret if this first nomination of mine be a waste of anyone's time or attention. Twozenhauer (talk) 08:07, 20 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment - "acting in haste"? An article that has been out there since 2006, completely unsourced? I vaguely remember hearing this term bandied about decades ago. It never occurred to me to wonder what it was. But it does seem to refer to broadcasting on some level. And also seems to be connected in this way: "Off-air pickup and remote control operation"

• Commission, United States Federal Communications (1978). "Federal Communications Commission Reports: Decisions, Reports, and Orders of the Federal Communications Commission of the United States". U.S. Government Printing Office.

However, this article reads like reference material. If it can't be sourced, I'm not sure what use it is to Wikipedia. — Maile (talk) 16:34, 20 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• • Comment - Thank you for your comment! It is good to read that someone has heard the term, and I agree with your assessment of the paper cited. Some further research finds that Wikipedia has articles on broadcast relay stations and the like; perhaps some history could be added to these articles to the good effect of covering the sort of thing related in the article under examination. There is scholarly literature on related topics, to be sure! Also, I have looked further into the articles that link to "Off-air pickup": two are obscure stations in Wales, outside the scope of any AT&T cables; another is a defunct TV station in Ohio, one WGSF, for which one can find attestation but whose article cites only teachers at a neighboring high school, a personal page, and an inaccessible link. Surely something like the phenomenon described existed, and, indeed, may have been fairly widespread, but, given the dearth of citations, one begins to wonder whether this exact term was ever used for precisely that: could it be that the article is the result of an anecdote or a misunderstanding? Twozenhauer (talk) 22:35, 20 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• @Twozenhauer: I did a random search via HathiTrust, and there are numerous US government reports that mention this term. (search results). It looks like by the dates, that this technology probably went out of use with the arrival of the internet, and and more modern ways of accessing TV. Hard to say if this article is accurate. It might be, but it's unsourced, so there's no way to verify its content. — Maile (talk) 23:28, 20 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Technology-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 07:42, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Television-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 07:42, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 07:42, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete. This is a very good rabbit hole. This article is about three things, all related to the period of an incomplete national television network infrastructure in the U.S.: kinescope distribution of programming, relayed broadcast transmission, and the dangerous split-second art of local insertion. Roughly between 1951 when the networks first got access to a nationwide terrestrial system, and 1975 when the networks went to satellite. Unfortunately in a sweeping summary the author misses a lot of stuff & makes some poor connections. There were four networks in 1950, not three. Kinescope was once a primary means of distribution, not just for po-dunk towns on the fringes. There was another whole attempted network with content mailed to affiliates. The bit in the middle about relayed transmission comes closest to the supposed topic "off-air pickup" but is not technically clear or complete, and doesn't mention piracy. Not much here worth saving, and no obvious merge target. --Lockley (talk) 11:22, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks to you folks for your interest in this matter. I have looked into some of the government documents cited, and this would seem to be an actual term used in the industry, however obscure or inaccurately applied. But, following on Lockley's comment, maybe the term could be incorporated into articles on kinescope and the like. In anyone's opinion, how is it that the article got made? Is it the result of a misunderstanding but written in good faith? Intending only curiosity, not offense, I am a little confused, given the dearth of available citations, as to how anyone came across the term! Twozenhauer (talk) 02:51, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Twozenhauer:, most likely the original editor StanislavJ had personal experience, probably as a station engineer, maybe at small stations at the ragged fringes of the network. See their comments about individual east-coast stations here and here, as well as their creation of Sermonette and Indian Lord's Prayer after creating this one. I think they're describing job experience. That fits the content & the tone & the use of an old-school technical term. --Lockley (talk) 04:51, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed! He certainly seems to have extensive knowledge of the industry. I do not know whether he would be available for comment; his last activity was in 2017 and, before that, in 2010. Thanks for your help! Twozenhauer (talk) 05:51, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep - This is a legitimate, notable term from the early days of radio and, later, television industries. Its an important term to have defined in its own article because it relates to the history of many radio/television stations and cable television systems, as well as having a big impact on copyright and regulation (many of the government record mentioned above relate to court cases about how and when such signals can be rebroadcast). Sources are difficult to track down, but as WP:NOTTEMPORARY, some leeway should be given. I've added one source (as of this vote), and can devote some time locating others. I found ~300 mentions on WP:Newspapers.com to go through. -- Netoholic @ 02:47, 26 July 2020 (UTC) (edited)[reply]

• Keep. The article needs work, but the sources exist in the broadcast trade (about 250 results on worldradiohistory.com) and mentions in newspapers to demonstrate notability. There are likely others using different phrasing. I added a source showing that as late as 1977, 12 NBC affiliates depended on off-air pickups, some of which definitely were not zero-hop. Raymie (t • c) 04:06, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Weak keep. Does appear to be notable (echoing what others have said). Doesn't seem to be a particularly commonly used term nowadays per a quick WP:GOOGLE I just did, though. Still, a possibly useful article with some tidy-up. Skylar MacDonald (talk) 14:30, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.