The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Ignoring the SPAs that popped up during this debate, it appears that this does not meet NBOX. Randykitty (talk) 14:46, 4 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Ryan Martin (boxer)[edit]

Ryan Martin (boxer) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)
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Non-notable boxer because he fails WP:NBOX. Junior championships don't show notability.Mdtemp (talk) 15:25, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Martial arts-related deletion discussions. Peter Rehse (talk) 15:44, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Please consider the following notes before deletion:
Per the notability requirements one would have: fought, as an amateur, in the final of a national amateur championship for an International Boxing Association/Association Internationale de Boxe Amateur (AIBA) affiliated and World Amateur Boxing Championship medal winning country (for Men see Medal table (1974 - present), or have represented their AIBA affiliated country in a continental (or higher) tournament.
The under-19 is a mens NATIONAL tournament and is sanctioned by USA Boxing. USA Boxing, Is the national governing body for Olympic-style boxing, is the United States' member organization of the International Amateur Boxing Association (AIBA) and a member of the United States Olympic Committee (USOC). It is responsible for the selection and management of the United States Olympic Boxing Team and AIBA. [1]
Martin won the GOLD MEDAL at such National Championship. He also was selected for his AIBA Affiliated country (USA) in a continental/World tournament--AIBA Youth World Championships comprised of a 105 countries. [2]
As a professional boxing manager with over 40 years of experience I would be open to create a page specifically for the U-19 National Championships and Youth World Games. These tournaments are specifically for the country's elite athletes and are the gateway to the sports World Champions, Olympic Medalist and some of the best prizefighters in the world.
Ryan Martin shows notability in all areas of the sport, He's won a total of 12 National Championships and has competed all over the world for team USA. Also, he's ranked 17 in his weight division as a professional [3] and has just recently signed professional w/ 50 Cent in September of 2013.
He's not ranked by any major organization or media outlet. Boxrec ranks him 17th among U.S. lightweights--hardly a clear indicator of notability. If anything, it shows he is not among the top lightweights who are adults. Papaursa (talk) 03:56, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Let's make a rational decision and have discussions before this page isn't considered notable and selected for deletion. C.dunkin (talk) 16:27, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Comment There is good reason for this. Junior championships whether boxing or karate or ..... never have the same rigor in selection/participation as adult. Subject is now competing as an adult (with a no Loss record). If he is any good he should meet WP:NBOX soon and it can be recreated - if not well almost competing in the olympics does not really inspire.Peter Rehse (talk) 16:36, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Here's the list provided by AIBA as a sanctioned World Amateur Boxing Championship Tournament:[4]
  • Olympic Games
  • Youth Olympic Games
  • World Boxing Championships
  • Womens World Boxing Championships
  • AIBA Youth World Boxing Championships
  • AIBA Junior World Boxing Championhips
  • Commonwealth Games
C.dunkin (talk) 17:53, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
"He competed in the finals, he won the gold medal, at the National Championship for his affiliated AIBA (USA), PER WP:NBOX " One would have: "fought, as an amateur, in the final of a national amateur championship..." Seems like the big dispute is that U-19 is a junior tournament, however thats not the case. Per USA Boxing's rulebook 15-16 year olds are "Junior boxers. the U-19 is for the top 17-18 year old men. Once they reach 19 years old, then they move into Senior division. Boxer also meets general notability. Take some time and go through all the sources I provided. Feel free to add some more, I'm still gathering more as we speak. C.dunkin (talk) 06:14, 26 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Keep the USA national tournament is sanctioned and reconfinzed by AIBA as a World Qualifying Tournament. Mr. Martin won GOLD here. He didn't only make it to the final of that event. He was crowned champion. Also, he was the selected lightweight to represent his country at the World Championships. :C.dunkin (talk) 17:53, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
FYI--Someone struck your second keep vote because, while you can comment all you want, you can only vote once. Papaursa (talk) 04:06, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
He was never an international champion. He was a national champion as a junior, not as an adult. There's a big difference. Papaursa (talk) 04:06, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
He was an international competitor for his AIBA country (USA). Indeed he was a national champion as a junior. He was also an open division mens champion at the U-19 which is a national tournament (ages 17-19). C.dunkin (talk) 05:04, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Tennessee-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 01:18, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 01:18, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Junior or not junior They are sanctioned AIBA and USA boxing events. if your 15, 16, 17 ,18 or etc., those champions are the best in their country/world for winning such. and They are competing at the highest level their age allows them to. AGE doesn't determine notability. C.dunkin (talk) 05:04, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
An 8 year old karate yellow belt competes at the highest level he's allowed to, but he's not notable either. Being the best 85 year old boxer or swimmer or whatever also doesn't make someone automatically notable. The criteria is about competing at the highest level--that means no restrictions on who can compete. WP is full of deleted articles on junior athletes in a variety of sports because they weren't considered notable. Even junior Olympic champions have been deleted and he has never reached that level. Papaursa (talk) 05:11, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

-Mattlonguk (talk• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

Per USA Boxing Competiton Rule Handbook "2.1 Classification of Boxers, 2.1.4 between the ages of 15 to 16 are categorized as Junior Boxers, 2.1.1 between the ages of 17-18 are categorized as Youth Boxers. 2.1.3 between the ages of 19-40 are considered Seniors [5] Ryan Meets WP:NBOX the U-19 is created for the top 17-18 year olds after they move out of the junior division. Under 19 is an open division tournament. (17-18 yrs old) USA Boxings junior tournaments are (Ages 15-16). I would agree that Jr. tournaments shouldn't make people Automatically notable. However, in Ryan's case how much more elite could the kid get? At 18 years old (2010) he was the number 1 lightweight in his weight class for boxers aged 17-18 (you can't even compete in senior tournaments if your not 19) then he's one of the few men to make it to the Olympic Qualifier in 2011 to box off for the Olympic spot, loosing to the Olympic Alternate Robert Easter. Hence, being recruited by the top promotional companies and signing a multi year deal with notable 50 Cent. dubbed a Blue-Chip prospect by many publications and being featured on MTV.Com, and Ring Magazine (the bible of boxing). in addition to the plethora of stories on various boxing platforms, fighting on the ESPN network and the undercards of HBO and Showtime. Ryan should meet WP:GNG Also WP:NBOX should be revised if most editors aren't happy or confused why others believe Ryan Martin meets that criteria.C.dunkin (talk) 02:11, 22 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

— Caseslab (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

— Carla Ja (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

We should find more articles and sources to include in discussionBoxexpo2015 (talk) 23:45, 2 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Spartaz Humbug! 09:13, 26 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

NOTES: WP:NBOX should be revised if it's believed Ryan doesn't meet this criteria. Just to be clear it reads "fought, as an amateur, in the final of a national amateur championship for an AIBA affiliated and World Amateur Boxing Championship medal winning country (for Men see Medal table (1974 - present), or have represented their AIBA affiliated country in a continental (or higher) tournament". Ryan hasn't only won an National Championship for his AIBA, his done it 12x including a Silver Medal at the 2009 Junior Olympics and a Gold Medal at the mens 2010 U-19 Natl. Championships. including being selected to represent Team USA in International competition/tournaments. Success still hasn't stopped, and his media coverage has been constant and still continuing...C.dunkin (talk) 17:06, 26 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The subjects you are referring to are martial artist, with only one or two sources of which weren't even reliable, with hardly no professional success.C.dunkin (talk) 07:00, 28 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Boxing is a martial art and their Youth Olympic medals were documented. Martin's professional career does not meet WP:NBOX so claiming that's what makes him notable is wrong.Jakejr (talk) 14:41, 28 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Martin won a medal at the National Jr. Olympics too. I'm not claiming he's notable for that reason. He's continued to win significant awards since that time in his life and has consistantely received coverage in his sport, Hence, being recruited by the sports biggest promoters to sign professional.C.dunkin (talk) 20:23, 28 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The fighters I mentioned won Youth Olympic titles, not national Youth Olympic events. That's a big difference, yet that was still determined to be insufficient to show notability.Jakejr (talk) 21:48, 30 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
As a new user you should become familiar with a few Wikipedia rules. Please sign your posts by putting 4 tildes after each one. You are also only allowed to vote once per discussion which is why I crossed out your last vote. You can comment as many times as you want, but only vote once. Finally, WP:NOTINHERITED says that notability is not inherited by being connected to famous people, so Martin can't gain notability from his manager or promoter.Jakejr (talk) 14:38, 28 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
[6]

The article notes:

From a young age Ryan Martin was highly touted. The Ohio resident was dubbed 'Kid London' by Jermain Taylor who saw Martin's skills first hand at the Silver Gloves. When Martin failed to make the USA team for the 2012 Olympics he decided to make the switch to the professional game.

[7]

The article notes:

Like many young fighters entering the sport, Martin chose to align himself with a promoter he felt could help guide his career. His manager VanNewhouse took him to meetings with various promoters but they ultimately went with 50 Cent as they felt he could afford them exposure and opportunities no one else could provide.

[8]

The article notes:

The young Lightweight from Chattanooga, TN is a promising star and is also being treated as such. He already has a strong team behind him as manager Tim VanNewhouse made it a point from the beginning to have Martin’s full focus on boxing and nothing else.

he is getting exposure and great opportunities. Martin is fresh off his fourth career victory just a couple weeks back and already he’s set to be part of Mike Tyson’s promotional debut on Showtime this Friday night.

Martin is already signed to his own promoter SMS Promotions which is headed by rap star and businessman 50 Cent but being part of Iron Mike Promotions inaugural event is something special for him.

There is sufficient coverage for boxer to meet WP:GNG if we can't determine he meets WP:NBOX. C.dunkin (talk) 20:23, 28 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Consider adding more sources, not sure how you incorporate them into the page, as it seems well written. Use Chattanooga in your search efforts, there's a bit there. Boxexpo2015 (talk) 02:07, 3 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Anyone interested in nominating this page should spend more time examining the sources-- this would easily show that they are sufficient.
Dubious Reliability? Theres not one source on there of such! And only one of the articles could be considered a press release, which was put out by Frigo Revolution-wear announcing their two year branding deal with Ryan Martin. Dubious sources/websites? that is extremely incorrect.C.dunkin (talk) 11:16, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I know Twitter and PRNNEWS are not reliable sources and I don't know about the reliability of some of the boxing websites.Jakejr (talk)
Twitter is only used to identify a tweet by a notable boxing analyst. The PRNNEWS source was just identifying him in the release. Normally this is how most deals are announced via national news wire. Per WP:PAGEDECIDE & WP:N please consider being an expert of Boxing and it's reliable sources before nominating Ryan's page for deletion. This page should remain active as it's meets notability WP:N, WP:V and has reliable sources WP:RS. also please note that boxingscene is the largest and one of the most trusted sites for boxing news. C.dunkin (talk) 00:34, 4 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per the significant coverage in boxing sport. Athlete meets WP:GNGBoxexpo2015 (talk) 23:13, 2 January 2015 (UTC) — Boxexpo2015 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

References[edit]

  1. ^ http://aiba.org/en-US/news/ozqsp/newsId/3167/headlines.aspx
  2. ^ http://www.boxingscene.com/2010-under-19-national-champions-crowned-cinci--25326
  3. ^ http://boxrec.com/ratings.php?country=US&sex=m&division=Lightweight&status=A&SUBMIT=Go. Retrieved 15 December 2014. ((cite web)): Missing or empty |title= (help)
  4. ^ aiba.org http://www.aiba.org/default.aspx?pId=4683#. Retrieved 15 December 2014. ((cite web)): Missing or empty |title= (help)
  5. ^ usaboxing.org http://www.teamusa.org/USA-Boxing/Rulebook/Competition-Rules. Retrieved 22 December 2014. ((cite web)): Missing or empty |title= (help)
  6. ^ "Ryan Martin Pumped". boxingscene.com. Waignwright, Anson. Retrieved 28 October 2014.
  7. ^ "Martin working great with SMS". boxingscene.com. Luis, Sandoval. Retrieved 8 August 2014.
  8. ^ "Martin humbled on Mike Tyson card". boxingscene.com. Retrieved 16 April 2014.
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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