The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. There is a rough consensus here that this is a valid list, which should not be deleted. Davewild (talk) 06:53, 6 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Terrorist incidents in Sri Lanka (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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WP:REDUNDANT to List of attacks attributed to the LTTE. This article has become a crude attempt to recreate List of civilian massacres attributed to the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam which was deleted recently following an Afd. obi2canibe^{talk contr} 18:51, 23 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sri Lanka-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 20:04, 23 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Crime-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 20:04, 23 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 20:04, 23 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Terrorism-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 20:04, 23 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 20:04, 23 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep - same reason as keeping Terrorism in Sri Lanka. Highly notable topic. This is a "general terrorism" list not attributed to any group so I don't see how it's redundant or POV. While most of the terrorist attacks are attributed to the LTTE, they are not all LTTE. If some terrorist attacks are being purposely excluded, this should be discussed as the talk page. —Мандичка^YO 😜 20:30, 23 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

*Delete - Extensive lists of terrorist incidents already exists. This article is a duplicate of those, we don't need more lists.--Blackknight12 (talk) 22:41, 23 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It's not a duplicate but a comprehensive list of attacks. Not all of the attacks were committed by LTTE. —Мандичка^YO 😜 00:28, 24 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It is very much a duplicate. It contains 15 entries, thirteen of whom appear on List of attacks attributed to the LTTE and List of massacres in Sri Lanka. The two JVP attacks are just their to make it seem different to List of civilian massacres attributed to the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam. The creator of this list was desperate to find JVP attacks to include in the list that they had to include an attack which killed only two people.

This list is far from comprehensive - List of attacks attributed to the LTTE, it's child articles and List of massacres in Sri Lanka contain numerous other LTTE "terrorist" attacks.--obi2canibe^{talk contr} 06:35, 24 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep as complement to Category:Terrorist incidents in Sri Lanka, which appears to contain many articles not yet included in this list so there's room for expansion to make it comprehensive of our articles on this topic. To the extent there is significant overlap with sublists, any problem is then with the sublists, as this should be the master list because of its broader, national scope that matches the category and the whole category scheme (Category:Terrorist incidents by country). postdlf (talk) 16:57, 24 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

You will find that every entry in Category:Terrorist incidents in Sri Lanka is already included in List of attacks attributed to the LTTE and/or List of massacres in Sri Lanka and/or List of civilian massacres attributed to Sri Lankan government forces. Having this article just exacerbates the redundancy.--obi2canibe^{talk contr} 17:52, 24 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

My comment above already addresses this argument. A master list of all terrorist incidents in the country should exist, so those lists you cite are redundant, if any are, and should arguably be merged to this one. Further, not all "massacres" or "attacks" are necessarily "terrorist incidents". Per WP:ATD, what the relationship is between these lists is a decision for editors to hash out in ordinary editing (merging, redirecting, or repurposing), not a deletion issue. And even if there is significant overlap between this master list and any sublists, "significant" ≠ total, and those sublists can in any event be justified by different organization and annotations appropriate to their different focus. The fact you had to list three separate lists to equal the entries of this one also just reinforces the utility of a master list. postdlf (talk) 18:39, 24 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

If we included every attack on one list the list would become inordinately long and a candidate for WP:SPLIT. That is the reason why List of attacks attributed to the LTTE has already been split. On your second point, the terms "terrorist" and "massacre" have POV connotations and different editors will have different views as what constitutes terrorism/massacre and what doesn't. That is why there is already an initiative to rename List of civilian massacres attributed to Sri Lankan government forces to List of attacks on civilians attributed to Sri Lankan government forces. The term "attack" is more neutral than terrorism or massacre.--obi2canibe^{talk contr} 19:09, 24 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I think postdlf has a point, there should be a master list. At first I opposed this article because it was a duplicate, however I have made some edits which I think addresses everyone's concerns. It is not another list of attacks but the container article from which articles are supposed to be spun off (which has already been done). I change my opinion to Keep.--Blackknight12 (talk) 23:07, 24 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I see that LahiruG has in effect undone your edits to List of terrorist incidents in Sri Lanka - it still looks like List of attacks attributed to the LTTE. He has undone you edit to the latter article as well. The only way to keep List of terrorist incidents in Sri Lanka is to make it a list of lists, similar to Lists of massacres during the Sri Lankan Civil War or Lists of centenarians. There would be no individual attack mentioned in the article. But given LahiruG's belligerent attitude I doubt he would agree to this.--obi2canibe^{talk contr} 17:48, 25 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

This isn't the place for discussing individual editor conduct, as such conduct has no bearing on a deletion decision either way. If there is an editor who is trying to WP:OWN the article and/or ignoring consensus by editing warring against multiple editors or ignoring requests to discuss changes, take it to WP:ANI. postdlf (talk) 19:01, 25 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Yes I noticed, however my decision will stay "keep", as this list is a standard wiki list that complements the "Terrorism in ..." article. Though I don't support User:LahiruGs efforts to create multiple lists of the same content, I think it's better if we focus on a content dispute rather than a afd here as well.--Blackknight12 (talk) 02:18, 26 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep. Per the above Keeps. (Pls note, even tho it is not flush left, Black is now a keep as well). Epeefleche (talk) 00:08, 25 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Strong Delete Another redundant and POV list while there is already a List of attacks attributed to the LTTE.Lapmaster (talk) 07:40, 25 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

We've already explained why it's not redundant. Can you explain why this is POV? The argument it seems to go against is "only LTTE have committed terrorist attacks in Sri Lanka. No other group has ever been responsible for terrorism nor is this even possible." Is that your position? —Мандичка^YO 😜 13:20, 25 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment Obi2 got a point there, This list will include (even when short listed) 160 assassinations, 137 attacks on civilians(bombs), 109 attacks on sinhala and Muslim villages, 22 attacks on economic targets, 49 attacks on VVIPs, long list of maritime terrorist attacks, cyber attacks, attacks on civilian air crafts, etc etc. This is not counting 100 + attacks by JVP during 1971 insurrection. Its good to have all the incidents in one place, but is it practical to maintain such a long list? Secondly. Does the title violate WP:TERRORIST ? Thanks. Nishadhi (talk) 14:47, 25 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • TERRORIST says the word is "best avoided unless widely used by reliable sources to describe the subject" (emphasis added). That means the title is a problem only if no incidents ever occurred in Sri Lanka that reliable sources widely describe as "terrorist incidents". Do you think that's the case? Further, whatever problems there are with the label "terrorist" are not unique to this list or to Sri Lankan history, nor is its usage in Wikipedia unusual here. See, for example, Category:Terrorist incidents by country. So if your argument is that we should never use the word, you're going to need something higher level like an RFC policy discussion to effect such a global change, rather than knocking out one particular usage in one list.

    On the size issue, that's an editing concern, not a deletion one (see WP:ATD), and we can deal that with in many ways, such as by making the master list a list of lists, which could be split into sublists by type of incident and by chronology (such as lists by decade). Though again note that not all "attacks" or "assassinations" are classifiable as "terrorist incidents". The overlap is not complete, nor are all kinds of "terrorist incidents" amenable to sublisting by mode (suicide bombing, etc.) of incident. postdlf (talk) 15:16, 25 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

    • Keep I guess you are right. Lets keep it in the format suggested by Blackknight12. Nishadhi (talk) 14:15, 27 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Reply Sri Lanka is one of the countries that has suffered a lot due to modern terrorism and it was mainly due to the atrocities of LTTE and JVP. At one stage of modern Sri Lankan history, JVP terrorism loomed as a bigger threat than the LTTE terrorism (Encyclopedia of Modern Worldwide Extremists and Extremist Groups). Having a list of attacks attributed to a single group (which includes military battles), doesn't make a country specific general list of notable terrorist incidents, redundant. In addition to JVP and LTTE, there were many other militant organizations based in Sri Lanka such as PLOTE and EPRL ([1]), who too were engaged in violent activities. This page is fairly new and provides the space to include all the terrorist incidents that have happened in Sri Lanka, without limiting to a single perpetrator. --LahiruG ^talk 10:29, 26 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Strong Delete Terrorism is a term that is defined by the prerogative of the user and sources. It is an official Wikipedia policy(WP:Terrorist) to apply maximum restraint on its use in articles. But here a few disgruntled users who are in it for a TITLE WAR(they have floated several similar disruptions) want the term in the title. Several instances of State terror are recorded here in the same country. So those favoring the proposed result to Keep the article, should have included all these massacres and attacks already, but they didn't. Only proves their heightened desperation after failing with similar moves elsewhere.--CuCl₂ ^{(chat spy acquaint)} 16:04, 28 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • This argument has already been addressed above as to why abstract complaints about the word "terrorism" really have nothing to do with this list in particular. The title follows the parent category's name, which is part of a comprehensive scheme subcategorizing by country, and every article listed is also already categorized as a "terrorist incident". If there are more entries that should be included in this list, add them. postdlf (talk) 16:46, 28 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • Keep clearly notable article per GNG,--BabbaQ (talk) 23:03, 29 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep, Sri Lanka is a country that had plenty of terrorist attacks and this list follows the standard Wikipedia lists of non-state terrorist incidents by country. SWR2.9 (talk) 03:26, 3 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep - As per the above reasons. Heyyouoverthere (talk) 23:58, 3 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Weak Delete Per Obi2canibe and Copperchloride and WP:REDUNDANT there are multiple extensive lists of the same content and this is a duplicate.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 14:13, 4 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Surprisingly, the same users who supported to keep a redundant list (related to state terrorism of the same country) few weeks ago, are now trying to delete this non-redundant list (related to non-state terrorism), requesting to apply contradictory policies ??? The number of terrorist groups that have existed in Sri Lanka does not limit to one or two, it's a higher number. [2]. --112.134.40.131 (talk) 16:34, 4 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment: If it is kept by chance we can create an article on State Terrorist incidents in Sri Lanka or include the State terrorist incidents in the present article. Terrorism is common to all whether it is used by States, Rebels, Extremists or Organized Criminals.Lapmaster (talk) 06:49, 6 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.