Youth Barnstar

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This barnstar can be user to award Wikipedia Youth. I, as a member of the Wikipedia Youth Foundation, believe that young editors should be commended with a seperate, more appropriate star. (Like a Barnstar looking like a plush toy). I don't know how to create barnstars, though. Could someone make it?--walkingencyclopedia 16:34, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Constellation Award

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The Constellation Award is awarded to those who make exceedingly good contributions to Wikiproject Constellations. Feel free to edit the image to your liking, as it needs some work.

--Gray Porpoise 13:51, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Smurrayinchester's version is a good image. I did not intend the first version to become the actual image, just something to get people started. --Gray Porpoise 16:35, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

The All-Purpose Barnstar

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I think that there should be a Barnstar for those editors and writers that contribute to Wikipedia, but not just to one particular subject. The Barnstars we have today are "specialized." I know that a lot of people write really weird but really good articles that doesn't fit into any of the Barnstar categories. What I'm proposing is a Barnstar for anything. Any article. Any change. Any contribution. For anyone and everyone. Unfortunatly, I'm not really into image creation, and, so, am having difficulty creating this Barnstar. If anyone is interested, feel free to make one and present it here. Best wishes. -- Wolfie001 20:52, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Music Barnstar

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File:Music Barnstar v1.png
Proposed barnstar.
As a spinoff from the TV/Radio Barnstar, I have developed a Music Barnstar. This also covers the music video section as well. The barnstar glows in a black eighth note. This was developed because one was needed for music/music video. This will not cover radio articles: the equivalent is the TV/Radio barnstar. -TrackerTV 00:41, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
Isn't this the music barnstar? --WillMak050389 01:24, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

We should make it an alternate, and the original barnstar's scope would expand to music videos. -TrackerTV 02:34, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Can't we have more than one barnstar for any particular thing? They are both nice. Shannonduck talk 04:58, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Football (Soccer) Barnstar

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Proposed barnstar.
I mainly made this to reward people who worked so very hard on the 2006 FIFA World Cup and on other football-related articles. The Running Man Barnstar was the best I could find and it seems too general for the purpose. What do you think? --Guinnog 02:44, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
Possibly could be used as a WikiProject award, i don't think football needs its own barnstar, though. Nice pic and color choice! --WillMak050389 03:27, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
Yes, I should have mentioned I'd floated it on Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Football#Football_Barnstar as well. Thanks for the nice comment. --Guinnog 03:31, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Comment I made it specifically because I thought the RMB unsuitable as it is too general. Football is the most popular sport worldwide, and is appropriately well-represented on the project. There may be many other users like me who felt the RMB unsuitable for a football editor, as it shows a stylised runner. I am not suggesting that every sport should have its own barnstar, just football. It seems to me to be big enough to deserve it. Hope that makes sense. --Guinnog 22:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Comment I certainly wouldn't have a problem wit that. --Guinnog 13:51, 1 August 2006 (UTC)


The discussion for the Football (Soccer) Barnstar has been sent back to the proposal page by Evrik for further discussion. When debate is over, please place the new results of the discussion below this message. Thank you.--Ed 18:35, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

A-League Barnstar

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Image:A-LeagueMedal.gif Designed to be awarded to the people who make awesome edits to an article associated to Wikiproject A-League. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Daniel.Bryant (talk • contribs)

Other Discussions on this Topic:

User:Daniel.Bryant/Comment - GDFL is fine, as it would be no different from walking down to SFC headquarters and taking a photo on the same angle. They can't copyright their own trophy illustration now that it is not a proposal anymore. Daniel.Bryant 06:15, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
User:Daniel.Bryant/Comment - OK, I see the main point is that the Football/Soccer barnstar covers this area, and therefore this doesn't deserve its' own listing. I accept your reasoning, and wish to withdraw this nomination, provided it isn't against any rule/policy to give this the title of the "A-League Barnstar". Can someone just assure me we will be allowed to call it that title, and then I will be happy to withdraw this proposal. Daniel.Bryant 06:15, 10 August 2006 (UTC)


Editor service awards

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This is a proposed series of awards for service: WP:SERVICE

As I have it now, this is unlike other awards in that:

There is no human judgement (=politics) involved here. If nobody likes you, you still get one (if you qualify). If everyone likes you, you still can't get one (unless you qualify).

Right now, I have it as only being for editors who are not admins. The reason being, I was thinking that there ought to be something, that is kind of hard to get, besides becoming an admin.

This would only be very useful if it catches on, though. I think this is kind of unlikely. Partly because people who are currently eligible are likely to be blasé and uninterested. But it's not for them, it's for editors who aspire to be like them, so perhaps they could be be jollied into going along, some of them anyway. (To get a list of eligible editors I'd need to query the database which I don't know how to do, but that's a detail. After the backlog is cleared, and supposing it did catch on, editors just help themselves, I guess.)

I'm wondering if this is even worthwhile. Anyway, I liked making the graphics, and suggesting an entirely different use for them would be fine, too.

Questions:

Comments welcome --Herostratus 05:30, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

In line with the British honours system, we can also create post-nominal letters for each class, and a motto for the Order (e.g. Scientia potentia est). What do you think? —SHININGEYES 17:52, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

It's a good idea; perhaps better than using strange words like Tutnum and Snorf Klangtnor Angkt. smurrayinchester(User), (Talk) 18:14, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Taking all the discussions together, I'm seeing a roughly 50-50 split. So here's what I'm going to do now (which of course any editor can change), which seems a reasonable compromise:

Barnstar Star

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I am proposing a slight modification to the barnstar barnstar. In the existing image there is a black dot in the middle of the smaller star (most likely due to copying the image which changes transparent parts to black, if anyone knows how this can not be done please inform me). I have eliminated the spot, though it is a bit pixely if anyone can fix that, and I am proposing the switch here just in case there is any opposition. --WillMak050389 19:58, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Esperanza Barnstar

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Support of Esperanza

This is for those Esperanzans who go out of there way to spread the spirit of Hope and Wikilove to which the Project stands for. Esperansa is one of the most active and outgoing projects on Wikipedia and members of said project do many many great things here. This would most likey if approved go in the PUA catergory. Æon Insane Ward 14:30, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Other Discussions on this Topic: See Esperanza for the discussion on their barnstar.

User:Leroyencyclopediabrown/Support Making it a PUA is a great idea, but there is a huge support from Esperanza, that there is a possibility for it becoming a WikiProject award.--Ed 15:42, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Fine by Me! Æon Insane Ward 16:52, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

I'll be moving this, since there is clearly approval from Esperanza, and nobody objects to this award in any way.User:Leroyencyclopediabrown/Sign

TV/Radio Barnstar

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I think that there are enough television and radio articles to warrant a barnstar meant for extraordinary contributions to television and radio. This proposal would be used by WikiProjects Television and Radio (plus any subprojects, like Television Stations).

I have also uploaded an image that is my first proposal (or rough idea) of the Barnstar. -TrackerTV 02:15, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Support--I still support #4.Transcendentalstate 18:14, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

It seems mostly that way, although my personal opinion has not changed. --Gray Porpoise 19:21, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Medical barnstar

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Medicine is a major part of Wikipedia, having tens of thousands of articles, but has no award. It falls awkwardly between Science and Life. It may not be suitable as a barnstar, but if not chosen for that, I'm sure WikiProject Medicine wouldn't mind having this as a WikiProject award. smurrayinchester(User), (Talk) 15:32, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

The Encephalon Cross for commendable contributions to medical articles.
--evrik 16:13, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Skill badges

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This is not a proposal for a single new award, but for a new type of award designed to accredit skill rather than distinction. Please see Wikipedia:Skill badges and discuss on the talk page. NeonMerlin 15:09, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

(discussion moved to Wikipedia talk:Skill badges by NeonMerlin 18:11, 11 August 2006 (UTC))

Railroad Barnstar

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These are two concepts for a barnstar for rail-related articles. EASports 19:29, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Mediation Barnstar

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Mediation Barnstar, created by Sango123

I noticed that Cabalists, Mediators and Arbitrators do an awful lot of work on Wikipedia, and they hardly get any recognition. I thought we ought to roll out a barnstar in their honor. I approached Sango123 to ask her if she would design the barnstar, seeing as I am no good at design. So, she came up with this.

It would be awarded to Cabalists, Mediators and Arbitrators who do an excellent job on a specific job, or just a great job in general. Tell me what you think!

Viva La Vie Boheme

The Arbiter's Medal

Given what these people put up with, here is this idea:

Two gold Barnstars rotated until you have a ten pointed Barnstar. In that, you have a image of Lady Justice holding a pair of Scales in one hand, a sword on the other. To be awarded to Arbitrators who have shown outstanding ability. They often have a thankless job. This is my way of thanking these personnel. Martial Law 06:28, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
ALL of them. Excuse bug. I'm on a malfunctioning Satellite ISP. Hoping they fix it. Martial Law 18:50, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
They act as judges, so a apropriate award would be needed, since a judge in court has a pix of Lady Justice or the State Seal behind him/her. Excuse the sig. I have a persistent bug that keeps me from logging in nearly 1/2 the time. The problem is with my ISP. Hoping they fix this real soon. Martial Law 18:53, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
See Court TV, the live trials for what the Seals look like. The Arbitration Committee often have a thankless job, thus is the reason for a similar type of award for these personnel. Martial Law 21:00, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Admin Gold Medal

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In this, you take two Gold Barnstars, rotate one until you have a ten pointed star. In that, a Silver Circle is placed, in the circle, is placed a A. Then, a pair of LARGE silver wings is placed, so that it has one wing on the right, one wing on the left of the ten pointed star. This is to be awarded to outstanding Admins. Slight modifications could be done to award this to stewards, to Wikipedia itself, outstanding Users, to the boss himself, Jimbo Wales. Martial Law 18:47, 15 August 2006 (UTC) Category:Wikipedia awards

Could this design be a update of that one ? Martial Law 20:20, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

I wanted to propose this in the Barnstar area, but the format has changed.

I have moved the discussion below from Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard. —Quarl (talk) 2006-08-15 21:41Z

The following discussions are an archived debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

What I had in mind is a ten pointed Barnstar Award. You take two Gold Barnstars, rotate one until you get a Barnstar that has ten points on it. Then in this is placed a silver circle, in that is a large gold A. Outside of the ten point Barnstar, is a set of wings, similar to what is seen in certain USAF designations, so that this Barnstar looks like one that has wings on it. I intend to call this the Admin Gold Medal, to be awarded to outstanding Admins. Appreciate your assisstance, patience in this matter. I know of some Admins I'd like to award this thing to, if it is approved. Martial Law 16:55, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

If possible, can this be moved to the Barnstar Awards:Barnstar Award Proposals ? Martial Law 17:16, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Barnstar and award proposals is definitely the place for this, creating barnstars isn't really an admin matter. Could you be more specific as to why you can't post there? (And I don't want to fork discussion, but why a ten-pointed star instead of the usual five-pointed?) --Sam Blanning(talk) 17:32, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
The format pesentation appears to have changed, and I wanted to have a special award for the Admins. Martial Law 18:09, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
Look at what they have to put up with, such as that below this inquiry. Martial Law 18:26, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Discuss :) —Quarl (talk) 2006-08-15 21:41Z

Although I strongly believe that all Admins User Pages should indicate that they are Admin with a Userbox or a disclaimer or something. I can understand the Noms motivations, and I think they are well intentioned. I feel a Barnstar for Admins only is way too exclusive and elitist. I think the this will strengthen a Clique Admin culture within the Wikipedia, and leave regular joes like me out. An Admin Barnstar could mean more than a regular Barnstar because only select Wikipedians can qualify. And having a Barnstar with two Barnstars of equal size symbolizes that an Admin Barnstar is more important than other Barnstars. Pete Peters 22:05, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
A Barnstar!
The da Vinci Barnstar
(({1))}

The da Vinci Barnstar may be awarded to anyone who has enhanced Wikipedia through their technical work (programming and tools, bot building, admin or sysop work, link repair, Mediawiki developers, etc.)

POV Fork

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I'd like to create an award for people who help fight POV forks (while still being civil and promoting verifiability and being bold, of course). I don't have a design, although I'd like to base it off of the (GFDL image) fork on the right. --M@rēino 17:53, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Welcoming Committee Award proposal

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I propose a welcoming commitee barnstar award. It should be awarded to Welcoming Commitee members who tirelessly welcome new users with lots of WikiLove. There are lots of Welcoming Commitee members who deserve an award like this. I encourage people to create a new design for it. Created and designed by Jam01 06:20, 22 August 2006 (UTC). Image:WCBs2.PNG - A second possible design by Jam01

Image:Welcomer's Barnstar.png - Welcomer's Barnstar

Environment barnstar proposal

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I propose a barnstar for continuting importnat contributions to environmental subjects. My skills of design are not good enough to produce the actual design. Is anyone up for the challenge? --Alex 11:28, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Bootcamp Barnstar

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Hi, I'd like to propose:
The Bootcamp Barnstar


Lots of editors work hours straight on the bootcamp channel, helping users, dealing with angry users, sorting out ((unblock))'s, but the majority work on ((helpme))'s. I have been edit conflicted many times, (which is good! :) ), by other, equally-eager Bootcamp-er's: and I think it's now time they were honoured with a barnstar :) --Deon555talkReview 01:58, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Proposal: Barnstar for Citations

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I propose that Wikipedia have a barnstar reserved for those editors who are particularly good at finding references to back up really obscure bits of info.--*Kat* 08:28, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Proposal: Football edit award

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File:Total 90 Yellow Football.jpgThis user won the Football Edit Award, awarded by Footballexpert, in 2006.

CVU Medal of Honor

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This is for CVU personnel who have shown outstanding ability:

Four Barnstars rotated until you have a 20 point Barnstar. In this, you have a Roman Short Sword. Since they have a thankless job, this is my way of thanking these personnel as well. Martial Law06:35, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Neutral The RickK Anti-Vandalism Barnstar and the Defender of the Wiki Barnstar are used for and ment for this. Æon Insane Ward 21:05, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Agreed! The Antivandal star is fine but maybe we should update the Defener one. The CVU does Defend the Wiki! Æon Insane Ward 17:00, 22 August 2006 (UTC)


Hungarian Barnstar of National Merit

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Hey, I just found the big gallery of Barnstars of National Merit for various specific countries over in the Commons. Can we have one for Hungary? I think a few of those may be in order if we manage to get the 1956 Hungarian Revolution article tops on the Article Creation and Improvement drive, and especially if it becomes featured article on Oct. 23 as is our hope! OK....that was kind of a shameless plug for the voting. I still think a Hungarian National Merit barnstar would be very welcome. :) K. Lastochka 16:23, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

--evrik 17:16, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Hi again, I'm about to upload it to the commons but I'm not sure what license to put it under. What I did for the image was I pulled one of the existing National Merit barnstars off the gallery and then modified it on Photoshop...would it fit under Public Domain? I'm still pretty new at this Wikipedia stuff...K. Lastochka 22:20, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

I don't know either, consult the copyright policies.--Edtalk c E 23:16, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

I DID, and got confused. That's why I asked. I don't want to inadvertantly break the law. K. Lastochka 02:50, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

I do believe that's what I'll do. :) Thanx guys, off to upload. K. Lastochka 15:25, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

The Computing Star

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The Computing Star is awarded to those who make outstanding contributions to computing/internet related articles. Also used for WikiProject Computing and all descendant WikiProjects. Introduced by Michaelas10 and designed by Lcarsdata. -- Michaelas10 18:12, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

New image proposed - This one is customized by me, looks pretty simple and focuses on the barnstar. -- Michaelas10 20:51, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

...time passes...

  • I am glad to hear you think so :D More or less a propos, I am haunted by the "barnstar wheelcovers": another manufacturer who used a moderately barnstarish design is Simca. Check out the Simca 1300 or this Simca 1000 GL (there is some probability we might finally obtain CC BY 2.5 for the latter image). Bravada, talk - 02:24, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
I have created this one which uses an idea from above. Lcarsdata (Talk) 17:49, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
I have made another and moved all images to top gallery. Lcarsdata (Talk) 18:00, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
I've uploaded my last version, this one is not a barnstar - it's an award, the Golden laptop award. I am aware that the most of other WikiProject awards are somehow based of barnstars, but there is no rule that indicates it. Michaelas10 19:16, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
Comment cleaned up User:Lcarsdata's second version a bit. --WillMak050389 02:44, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
Support Image 3b--Edtalk c E 19:39, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
3b is too blurred. I think 3a will be better. Michaelas10 20:18, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
  1. 5
  2. 3b
  3. 4b
  4. 3a
  5. 4a
  6. 1
  7. 2
  8. 6

--Gray Porpoise 20:49, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, I forgot I had already voted. Still, this is the order of my support. --Gray Porpoise 18:59, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
Your first vote was before all of the images we currently are considering were included - and also we were initially asking the question "Should there be a computing barnstar?". From where I'm sitting it looks like we unanimously agree that we want a barnstar - and (if you sort out the order of arrival of votes and images), I think we have a definite preference for 3b. Are we done? Do we have some sort of consensus? If so, I'll do whatever is necessary to move it onto the barnstar page. SteveBaker 01:46, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
No consensus yet, 2 people voted for #5 and 4 voted for #3b. Michaelas10 21:30, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
5 is showing a computer, which means all hardware, software and anything releating to computing. Also, the issues that you provided can be easily fixed with a single edit. Michaelas10 23:20, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Final consensus building

There we go:

Michaelas10 19:53, 16 September 2006 (UTC)


WikiProject computing award change

The following discussions are an archived debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Can anyone give the award a form of a barnstar instead of just shape? It's really important for it to look more like other awards and have a higher quality. Thanks. Michaelas10 10:50, 4 October 2006 (UTC)


Automotive Wikiproject Award

The following discussions are an archived debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.


Proposed Automotive Wikiproject Award - created by User:SteveBaker.

This is a concept for a barnstar an award for exemplary work in Automotive-related articles. Note that there was general support for a Railroad star, and the Automotive section of Wiki is comparable in size, support and need for recognition. SteveBaker 06:01, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

As a point of procedure: Does this proposal page cover approve the proposal to have a barnstar - or does it specifically approve the design of the graphic for the award? I assumed the former - but maybe it's also the latter. SteveBaker 14:55, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Update - The consensus both here and on the Automobiles project appears to be that we 100% agree that we need an automotive barnstar - and that almost everyone likes the idea of a star overlaid on a custom wheel - but that not everyone likes this particular custom wheel. Whilst I think we have the votes to justify making the image above be the automotive barnstar, it would be better to try some more designs based around the car wheel motif. I'll be working on that as time permits. SteveBaker 15:26, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Great to hear that! Thanks a lot Steve! I can't wait to see more of your creations! Bravada, talk - 15:30, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
I've posted some GIMPped (think 'photoshopped') versions of your Simca 1000 suggestion over on Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Automobiles#More_Barnstar_proposals - please continue the discussion over there. SteveBaker 11:34, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Final Consensus

Automotive Wikiproject Barnstar Award

After further discussion on the Automobile project page, I am please to announce that there is a clear consensus in favor of adopting this image as the Automobile project Barnstar to be awarded for all significant contributions of an automotive nature. For those who care, the image is of a Simca 1000 GL - the car was originally blue and the hubcap had an ALMOST barnstarish look that took a little GIMPing around to look as it does now. Thanks to Bravada for suggesting it. SteveBaker 20:06, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

The following discussions are an archived debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

How about an automotive Barnstar?

Proposed Automotive barnstar - created by User:SteveBaker.

I see the Railroad guys have petitioned for a special Barnstar award for their WikiProject - and it looks like it's getting some support. Not to be outdone, I thought I'd throw an image together and propose it.

If you have comments (like Support for example :-) you might take a stroll over to the proposals page: Wikipedia:Barnstar_and_award_proposals/New_Proposals#Automotive_Barnstar

Well, I like this one-a chrome wheel as autmotive barnstar. Regards, Signaturebrendel 06:28, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
Good idea! I have actually been looking for a suitable award like that once and ended up awarding somebody a Pentastar. For some reason I find a very appropriate travesty of the original barnstar concept. Unfortunately, the only pic of the pentastar is the one I insert below, though I think that it's roughness only adds to the effect. If somebody could get hold of a hood ornament of the 1980s Imperial Coupe photogrpahed head-on, I think it would be a perfect Pentastar! Regards, Bravada, talk - 11:16, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
The Pentastar
Da Pentastar!
Erm, using logos in userspace might not be a good idea... --Interiot 11:31, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
But that's a photo, not the logo itself. Unless of course some anal-retentive copyright maniacs butt in, it is a free photo and can be used wherever we want. If anything, we are promoting it rather than disgracing it, besides the company has not been using it for some time now. Finally, the pentastar as such is nobody's property, it is just a generic graphic design. I would be even more for a graphic interpretation of it, perhaps having a barnstar-like Pentastar posing as a hood ornament. Somebody would have to do it (*sigh*), perhaps I will think of it later.
My problem with the "alloy barnstar" is that simply I am not quite enamoured with it graphically (with all due respect to Steve, who surely put a lot of effort in it). Compared to the railway barnstar, which you can find just above in the nominations page, it is not really that refined, and I do not feel too good about striving for a 20-inch gaudy Giovanni. I like the way the author of the railway barnstar propositions incorporated the barnstar design discreetly into a really nice photo, without making it too obvious. If we could have something like this, it would be great. Bravada, talk - 11:56, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
I don't mean to be an anal-retentive copyright maniac as it were, but my understanding is that a picture of a logo is nearly equivalent to any other image of the logo (otherwise we'd constantly be getting around the fair-use issue by taking lots of photos of subway maps and famous artwork and television screens and such, and declaring them magically public-domain). This seems to be only loosely enforced on WIkipedia and even Commons, but if a photo is exclusively of a logo, it seems like it makes itself a more obvious target. (granted, there's this, but those are being discussed for deletion now). --Interiot 12:48, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for drawing my attention to that - I placed a warning on the deletion page! The problem is that this category, apart from artistic depictions of details of automobiles, also contains logos outright copied from the Internet or something, so no wonder it raised concerns. I believe that a photo of a badge or hood ornament does not infringe any rights of the automaker, as we do not use for commercial purposes or anyhow else that would inflict losses on the company (quite contrary to photographing a map, as the photograph might serve the same purpose of the map - you can figure out the rest). I guess you have all seen numerous photos of badges and signs on products, buildings etc. placed in print media articles more or less directly discussing the company or product. I doubt it whether they contact the trademark owner for permission everytime they publish a photo like that.
Anyway, this is a totally different issue. What I wanted to propose is some internal contest for the design of the Automotive Barnstar. I don't know whether many of us are gifted with artistic talents (I am not), so maybe we can post raw ideas here, and get some of the Wikipedia artists to submit their designs, both based on our suggestions and their own concepts. Bravada, talk - 13:28, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
Well, I'm quite 100% certain I don't want a company logo for the barnstar...no, no, no - hell no. There are two issues to decide here: Firstly - do we agree that we want there to be an automotive barnstar? Secondly - what graphic do we want? I don't here any objections to the first - but we're not happy with the second. Please don't spare my feelings - the chrome rim barnstar was a 5 minute job, I'm a 3D graphics geek and I can create stuff like that very easily. So - let's kick around some ideas for what it should look like and when we have some good ideas I'll be very happy to do the detailed design and rendering - and even knock up a few variations that we could vote on.
What I don't like about the railroad barnstar is that it's a photo with a barnstar embedded into it - none of the other barnstars out there are full rectangular photos and it looks out of place. I chose the chrome rim because it's cut out like the original barnstar whilst clearly saying "Automotive" by being recognisably part of a car. I think that's more appropriate than (say) a regular rusty star with a car stuck over the top of it. Barnstars generally seek to be somewhat witty and clever. SteveBaker 14:52, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

(indent reset) Well, I actually like the railway barnstar very much for what you mentioned - it is not an in-your-face image screaming "BARNSTAR!" with a blinking neon light over it and Elgar's "Pump & Circumstance" playing while Miller's and popcorn are being handed out. No, it is a discreet, elegant, refined picture of high quality by itself, with a small hint recognizable by those in the know. It will always come with loads and loads of info on what it is and there can be no mistake about that, so I guess the fact that it isn't the standard barnstar with Thomas the Tank Engine (who is a subject of a separate project btw) slapped on it is not a problem. If it doesn't fit in with the other barnstars, it says something of the quality of their quality.

What I would strive for is a barnstar that would exude the same qualities, being a refined, high-quality picture itself, with a recognizable reference to the scope of this WikiProject, and a barnstar well-composed into it. Apart from the Railway Barnstar, I can think of two current barnstars that have similar qualities - The Hollywood Barnstar and The Blueprint Barnstar (although the barnstars are pretty evident due to the theme employed). Coming close would be the Stargate Barnstar, although the idea might not be that inventive.

My vision is something quite like the Absolut Vodka ads (excuse me to indirectly promot alcohol here, ApolloBoy and Karrmann please don't click the link ;-) ), where the iconic bottle is cleverly composed into different backgrounds. People who know what it is about can really appreciate those little works of art.

On the other hand, nobody says we should absolutely have our award in the form of a barnstar. The fellow airborne WikiProject employs some very nifty WikiWings. Perhaps we can devise a more unique award like that?

Here's a list of items that one can compose a barnstar in, or can derive a new award from - I hope other will chip in:

^ The above was submitted by the notorious Bravada. Karrmann's comment starts below. Bravada, talk - 18:48, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm all for the Pentastar being our barnstar! Karrmann 16:31, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
I mentioned the pentastar because the original barnstar is actually a penastar and the figure was used as a prominent car company logo, but I did not mean the ACTUAL Pentastar. Bravada, talk - 17:35, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
So - I tried the obvious car wheel and a few people don't like it...Karrmann suggests: steering wheel, hood ornament, car keys or engine cover. Engine covers don't really lend themselves to star-shaped things - they are square things - we need a round thing. A barnstar car key is certainly do-able. I like that idea. The trouble with it being a hood ornament is that we wouldn't know it was a hood ornament (as opposed to a shiney chrome barnstar) because a hood ornament is just a chrome thing with no other distinguishing features. Somehow I don't like the steering wheel suggestion. Hmmm - OK - so how about I try a car key? SteveBaker 18:39, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
I believe you have to think out of the box. Try to fend off the negative feelings towards the railway barnstar and rectangular shapes - all graphic files are rectangular after all. We do not really have to make our barnstar look like all other barnstars - it's rather them that should catch up with our great design :D If the resulting design won't pass as a barnstar, why not call it something else? We might use the barnstar theme to signify that it belongs to the "Wikipedia awards" family, or not, like in the case of Wikiwings. A hood ornament can be portrayed so that the fact that it is standing on a car's bonnet is evident. Bravada, talk - 18:48, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
PS. How would you feel about inviting Wikipedia artists from outside of the Project to propose some more designs? Honestly, if you want to be the author of the Project's award, I believe you have the full right to it, given your contributions.
A barnkey.
Honestly, I really don't feel any need to be the person who paints the award for the sake of fame and fortune! If anyone else wants to contribute - I'm all for that. But on the offchance that nobody does...I'm here to help. I do feel it's important for our barnstar to fit in harmoniously with all of the others - and whilst I like the railway star image a lot, I don't think it fits the bill for that reason. However, this isn't about their star - it's about ours. SteveBaker 19:44, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
Well, I'm okay with the key, but have to say I liked the wheel quite a bit better. The wheel was easier to recognize as barnstar (it's round). Regards, Signaturebrendel 19:53, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
Yeah - I agree - but now we have opinions on both sides. I see a vote coming on - so lets make sure we have a bunch of other suggestions before we go any further. SteveBaker 20:07, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
Just wanted to say that the barnkey is great! My only concern would be that perhaps not everybody would recognize it instantly as a car key. Regarding Gerd's concerns - have you ever seen a barnstar used in Wikipedia without an appropriate and obvious description?
As I see no oposition to this idea, I will try to get some WikiPedia artists to join the effort and provide more choices. Regards, Bravada, talk - 20:21, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
Absolutely - let's get some more designs. SteveBaker 03:51, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
Yes, Bravada, I know all Barnstars are clearly labeled, but for esthetic purposes it is still nice if they're easily recognizable. As I said I'm fine with the key too, but liked the wheel better-In this case I'll make things easier and would, if there is a vote, cast my vote in favor of either one. Signaturebrendel 23:59, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
Well, my sense of esthethics clearly differs, as for me it is nice that e.g. the railway barnstar is not that strikingly recognizable - I like understatement. That said, today browsing through an old seventies car catalogue, one thing struck me - the Autobianchi Primula Coupé appears to have been available with a wheel pattern strikingly resembling a 6-spoke version of our Wikipedia Barnstar! I have found the pic online (low quality, but that's what I have) - see for yourselves: [1]. Bravada, talk - 02:38, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
Über Geschmack läßt sich streiten! (One could argue endlessly over taste) Signaturebrendel 03:46, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
The Geo Storm also has wheels that look like they are stars. Karrmann 02:51, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
Well, I just like the wheel first proposed, but as we all have different tastes I am also ready to vote for other proposals-the key is fine with me too. I do want to say, however, that I somehow cannot help myself but be fond of the idea of using a wheel as a barn star-I don't know, but I just like that idea. Regards, Signaturebrendel 03:52, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
The wheel I originally proposed is an actual car wheel - it was on sale on eBay. I just emailed the owner and asked if I could use the photo (Yes, I could) - then I touched up the highlights and emphasised the grooves along the arms of the star to make it look more like a barnstar. There are dozens and dozens of wheel patterns with five armed stars out there though. I like the idea of a more subtle star that's not immediately obvious. That's what I was trying for with the key. At first you see a car key - and it's only a moment or two later that you see the embossed barnstar on the bow. It's a standard GM car key - from an era just before everyone started cramming electronics and other junk into big plastic lumps. I can put this treatment onto just about any key you guys could come up with - I did some Porshe and RollsRoyce keys first - but those actually look even more plain than the GM key I finally settled on. But if you have a better key to choose from - I'm game to add the barnstar to it. SteveBaker 03:51, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
Okay seems like we settled on a key-barnstar design (that may not be my first choise, but its fine with me). Anyways, the GM key seems allright but just to throw an idea out there-how about a Mercedes-Benz key (w/o plastic) with the MB symbol revised to look like a bartnstar. I now I want to avoid confusion I am not stating that the MB symbol should serve as the Barnstar, the symbol should be photoshopped to take on a more abstract form. This would be an interesting play on the car logo idea. Anyway, just some food for though. Regards, Signaturebrendel 05:46, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

(reset indent again) I don't think we "settled on" anything yet - is there any rush? I think we might wait, perhaps some other people will come with other propositions, or Steve will have yet another idea. I have asked some Wikipedia artists, who designed nice barnstars before, whether they would like to submit their propositions, so I suggest we would wait for them.

As concerns the car key, now that you told me it's a GM key I can see the GM logo peeking from behind more and more :D I have no idea how the pre-electronics Mercedes key looks like, but perhaps if somebody could find an image, it would be good to try that too. Finally, I think the wheel itself is a good idea, especially not a sole rim, but a whole wheel with a tire sitting in a wheelwell. I absolutely loathe shiny Pimp-My-Ride Giovannis, but a nice-looking wheel would absolutely do the trick for me. I invite you once again to take a look at the Primula - totally accidentally, Autbianchi designers managed to incorporate the barnstar theme in a very good way! Bravada, talk - 12:11, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Yeah - now you come to mention it - it does look like a ghost of the original GM logo is still there. I promise to fix that if we decide we want that image - but I don't plan to spend more time on it until/unless we do because it's already good enough to give you the idea. So far, I hear Gerdbrendel expressing a preference for the wheel - but not objecting to the key. I prefer the wheel - but could live with the key if there was a strong majority for it. I think Bravada likes the key - but so far is the only person who has actually said so. On the other hand, on the Wikipedia:Barnstar_and_award_proposals/New_Proposals#Automotive_Barnstar page, there are another three people (Jared, Gray Porpoise and Digital me) who said they love the wheel graphic. So I'd say it was pretty strongly in favor of the wheel right now. We need more people contributing artwork - or at least proposing ideas that I could turn into artwork for you. SteveBaker 22:15, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
I am pestering a number of graphic artists for contributions now, so hopefully we might have more choice. Frankly speaking, I like the CONCEPT of the wheel more, I just hate the gaudy Giovanni rim :D (not your artwork, but the base). Concerning ideas - I am still under the impression how the Autobianchi Primula wheels resemble our barnstar pattern - see here [2] and here [3]. Unfortunately, I haven't got hold of any photos of these in higher resolution (not to mention free), and my puny attempts to recreate this design ended up so that I am even more ashamed of my lack of PhotoShop talent. But if you had some spare time, perhaps you might give it a try - I would start with any five- or six-spoke rim with a reasonably thick tire on it. I tried to resize the central element of the barnstar (how do you call it?) to make it serve as a central wheelcover and it worked, it was making it all fit into an image of a wheel in a wheelwell where I had to admit defeat. Would be great if you could do that! Bravada, talk - 22:26, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
OKay, Danke Bravada-Ferien ist das richtige Wort ;-). Okay I still like the wheels but I see your point they are a but pimpy-I woudln't put them on my car either but they just male such a perfect barn star. Anyways-you're right what's the hurry. Regards, Signaturebrendel 17:47, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

More Barnstar proposals

So far, we have:

But how about...

For those who wanted a 'wheel' design for the Automotive barnstar - but not the chrome wheel I did before, here is a suitably doctored Simca1000 wheel following a suggestion from Bravada over on the Wikipedia:Barnstar_and_award_proposals/New_Proposals page. I'm not sure which of the cropped designs looks best. The one at the extreme left is a bit too subtle IMHO - at normal barnstar sizes it's really not obvious that it's a barnstar at all. I think the one that's second from the right is probably the best mix of "This is a Barnstar" and "This isn't obviously a barnstar until you look carefully". SteveBaker 11:31, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Today on GIMP My Ride.... :D You have even repainted the Simca - I like the color much more than the blue, actually! More seriously, these are really good! The middle two show what it's all about without compromising the quality! The only problem will be that nobody will believe anything has been modified here - your mods are immaculate! Bravada, talk - 11:52, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
<blush> Well, the blue didn't tone in with the yellowish rims - so I retinted the car. Also the resolution of the original image was poor and had been saved with a very high level of JPEG compression - so I had to smooth out the paint quite a lot so we could blow it up to a reasonable size. I juiced up the chrome a little too. Actually adding the highlights to turn the spokes on the hubcaps into stars was the easy part! I left-right mirrored it because people 'buy' highlights better when the light appears to come from above and to the right than they do when it's above and to the left...dunno why that is - it's a subtle perceptual 'kink' in our brains...but it somehow made the faked star look more convincing.
The trouble is that now I can't look at a car without seeing bloody barnstars!
I am not sure whether I want a Toyota Barnstar to be our WikiProject Award, but this is just great! I was wondering whether we could find a free high-res pic of a profile shot of a car with a similar rim/wheelcover pattern - it would be an even better base for such an award! I'll let you know if I find something, and I guess we should all now browse the Commons and perhaps also Flickr :D Bravada, talk - 12:12, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
No - I don't like the Toyota either. We could search wheel photos forever and hack dozens of them into barnstars - but it's not very productive. I personally like the Simca - it's understated. I don't think a modern car fits the bill at all, the wheels are just too boring. Something older is more to my taste - but then I am restoring a 1963 Mini and a 1972 VW Bug - so the Simca is right in the ballpark for my tastes. I looked at things like Model T Ford wheels - you could stick a barnstar into one of those fairly easily - but close-up, it looks like a cart-wheel and it just doesn't scream "CAR!" at you like the Simca wheel does.
But there must be some actual artists out there who could do us a good job...it would be nice to see some contributions from other people. SteveBaker 12:49, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
Actually I am all for the Simca Barnstar (or perhaps 1000 GL Barnstar?), I was just worried about more universal support :D But for now, there are two support votes and opposition :D As concerns other artists, I have pestered a number of people who I have seen doing really good graphic design stuff on WP, and by now I have only received either no answer or a negative one (including being informed that a person doesn't like cars!). I have myself made an attempt on the Simca, and the catastrophic results convinced me that I am not at all skilled in this area :D Bravada, talk - 13:01, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
The Simca wheel is the best suggestion so far. It needs a better version of course. Does it have to be a star? The Spirit of Ecstasy nest to a Mercedes star is my suggestion. Rolls Royce is traditionally considered automotive perfection. --Dahlis 22:04, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
OK - I'm up for criticism. You say the Simca star "needs a better version" - could you tell me what you don't like about it - maybe I can fix up whatever issues you have with it.
Does it have to be a star? Well, yes and no. Each project (and indeed, anyone who feels like it) can award any damned thing they like to whomever they like for whatever they like...and people do. But the five pointed 'barnstar' is a long-standing Wikipedia tradition and every single award on the WP:Barnstar page is a star. Some effort goes into making them look nice and to having them fit into the overall 'theme'. So whilst you - and this project - can award any darned thing it likes - what I would like to see is an automotive barnstar...and that has to be a star.
As for Nelly in her nighty and a Mercedes star - we have to be reasonably careful not to infringe on trademark and copyrights for these things - which IMHO rules both of those out no matter what. There are no fair use provisions that would apply here. SteveBaker 01:23, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
I do like the Simca wheels-but think it would be better to have a picture that is not at an angle. As for the cooperative symbols-this can easily erupt into a POV war (Tell a BMW driver that his car is not "perfection" and explain why only an MB star and Nelly in her nighty are featured-we should abstain from using any type of coperate logo-the barnstar should be neutral. Regards, Signaturebrendel 02:20, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
I doubt that the NPOV rules apply to user pages - which is the only place where Barnstars appear - but at any event, we agree that corporate logos would be a bad idea. I can look for a Simca 1000GT photo taken from square-on - but I thought the idea here was to make the star less 'in your face' and more subtly hidden in the photo. A three quarter view does a better job of that IMHO. SteveBaker 03:07, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
I agree with Steve on both accounts. Just a sidenote - this image (it's a Simca 1000 GL not GT btw, the "luxury" version, the "sporty" version was Rallye) is the only free one I have seen of a Simca 1000 with those wheelcovers, so I guess there aren't too many of them with this pattern. Simca 1301s seem, however, to have been getting those standard, and perhaps some 1501s. Bravada, talk - 19:39, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
I think the simca star would look better in a picture that is not in an angle. I do like that fact that the star is a bit less "in your face". But i think a head on photo would look better . --Dahlis 15:52, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
BTW, I have to take back my words - I must've been having some delusions. Quite many Simcas were actually fitted with those wheelcovers. Examples: [4], [5], [6]. Btw, all the pics from Garage de l'Est are now fully available for use in Wikipedia again, I have cleared it out with Mr. Stedehouder and he agrees for everybody to use it for any purpose, which includes us and uploading it to the Commons. An example how to do that with all the appropriate tags and stuff: [:commons:Image:1964 Simca 1500.jpg]. I hope you will find one of these images more befitting for the Silver Wheelcover Award :D Bravada, talk - 18:18, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
Well, those photos are certainly more square-on - but they don't have that nice cream-coloured rim (which makes the car look very 1950's) and the hubcaps aren't so shiney. I'll see what I can do with them tonight. I might try sticking one of those wheels into the existing image so it looks like the steering wheel has been turned to make the wheel face the camera. Dunno...I'll see what happens when I have them in GIMP and can play around a bit. SteveBaker 18:34, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
I played around a bit with the three 'more square on' Simca images and nothing I came up with really pleased me in any way worth showing - the images just didn't jump out of the screen at me and scream "AWARD". They just kinda sat there and look like a boring old car wheel. If anyone else can do a good job with them - that would be a good thing. But right now, I'm happier with the more diagonal view of the red car with the cream wheel. SteveBaker 04:31, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

One note

Since y'all are developing this award here instead of on the Award Proposal page I just wanted to bring a couple of things to your attention. The consensus on the WikiProject Awards (which this appears to be) is that only things listed on the Barnstar page are called Barnstars. Everything else is called an award or a star. Just an FYI. If you're making a topical barnstar for automotive related issues, I would suggest moving this debate to the proposal page. Finally, most of the awards listed on the two aformentioned pages tend to focus on the star image. --evrik 02:41, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Well, so does Steve's "Simca Barnstar". Some of the Project "stars" (actually only one of the project awards is not called a star, and some are still called Barnstars) look like travestations (travesties?) of the original barnstars, but some simply incorporate the star theme in this way or another, like the Military history WikiProject Award or Indigenous American Star. I think Steve's design is right on spot with regard to that. That said, if we aren't supposed to call it a "barnstar", I believe it could be even more appropriately referred to as "Silver Wheelcover"! Bravada, talk - 03:04, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
I started the discussion over on the barnstar page - and was told to move the discussion here! My impression is that a discussion of which image we want should happen here first - and when we have consensus, it should go over to the Barnstar talk page to get a final "OK" from the community at large. Now, as to whether the star images we've been looking at "count" as barnstars is a different matter. Most of the barnstars in current use are pretty much square-on obvious images of the barnstar - but the railroad proposal isn't. It's much more subtle...and a vast majority of people here like that. So the idea of having the classic barnstar appearing embedded into another image is an up-coming thing. Should we call that a barnstar? Hell yes! We've gone to a lot of trouble to incorporate the classic star image into our award. Life would have been a lot easier if I hadn't had to do that! The fact that it's recognisably a barnstar - to people outside of the automotive group - is very important to me - and the fact that it will ultimately appear in the list of standard awards on the barnstar page is also very important. Whether the participants at the barnstar talk page will agree is unknown (although they seem to like the railroad star and nobody complained about my chrome wheel star). However, I'm 100% sure that this group doesn't want something as boring as "The standard brown star with a car stuck in front of it". So - let's let the process work itself out. Let's come to a consensus here - then move it to barnstar talk - and get a vote on it there. If we fail at either of those stages, we'll find some more images and go around again. SteveBaker 17:04, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Automotive Barnstar

The following discussions are an archived debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.
Automotive Barnstar

The Automotive Barnstar may be awarded to an editor who contributes significantly to expand or improve Wikipedia's coverage of Automobiles. The award was proposed and designed by SteveBaker 2006 following a suggestion by Bravada.

Note: This image was recently approved as the award for WikiProject Automobiles.
From my talk page:
The following discussions are archived. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Why did you remove the Automobile barnstar? I believe I followed all the instructions for creating such a thing. If I messed up, it can only be because the rules are pretty vague.

There was 100% agreement about the need for such a thing - not one person objected (either on the barnstar page or on the automotive page) - the image we selected was the one we all wanted - again, we had almost 100% agreement. It doesn't appear to violate any guidelines. Your edit comment says to look in the discussion page - but there is no mention of the reason you removed it. Please respond or I shall assume you made a mistake and go ahead and reinstate it. SteveBaker 03:42, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

I removed the Automotive Award from the topical Barnstar page because I think it was placed there prematurely. There has generally been a different set of standards for WikiProject Awards than for barnstars. I made a couple of comments on the proposal page earlier about the difference between a WikiProject Award and a Barnstar. I will note that the majority of the development of the Award was done at the WikiProject Automoblie pages - which is fine for that type of award. Since the barnstar pages have been devloped there has been a clear move to limit the number of barnstars, or to enable poeple to create awards that fit their needs.

SteveBaker, if you want to propose a barnstar, then you have to do it here, and it has to be vetted by the community. The process may be vague and unevenly applied, but there are some loose standards. I hope that explaisn my actions. --evrik 17:58, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Oppose - the award's image is good as it is. --Gray Porpoise 02:03, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

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