< December 15 December 17 >

December 16

Category:Giro d'Italia cyclists

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. The subcategories were moved to Category:Giro d'Italia. Category:Tour de France cyclists and Category:Vuelta a España cyclists were mentioned as parallel cases but were not nominated in this nomination.
Nominator's rationale: WP:PERFCAT; we generally don't categorize sportspeople by what events they participate in (e.g., no Wimbledon tennis players, or such; except the Olympics) why should the Giro d'Italia be an exception? We categorize winners (see Category:Wimbledon champions) and may do so here but we we ought not categorize by mere participation which is akin to a performance cat. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 22:14, 16 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Baseball venues in Abilene, Texas

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:Sports venues in Abilene, Texas and Category:Baseball in Abilene, Texas. (non-admin closure) William Allen Simpson (talk) 11:52, 13 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: his small category (4 articles) is unlikely to grow significantly in the near future. User:Namiba 20:54, 16 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Four entries has been consistently judged as a small category here. There are potentially thousands of similar small categories that are at the intersection of numerous category trees which are not created because they are category clutter and the very reason why WP:SMALLCAT was written.--User:Namiba 14:38, 17 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
SMALLCAT means - in my experience - 1-3 categories, and I distinctly recall in the past 3 being mentioned as the general cap. If people have been "consistently judging" 4 as a SMALLCAT then that sort of creep needs to be reversed. - The Bushranger One ping only 23:18, 17 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Note: 3 of the 4 articles contain no more than two sentences and would likely be deleted/merged if nominated. Creating a series of single line stubs on old/small ballparks does not justify the continuation of a category. Also note that I removed Category:Baseball venues in West Texas, which has been nominated for deletion.--User:Namiba 14:05, 18 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Note: I've merged 3 of the 4 articles into their respective articles. They were stubs of 1-3 sentences in length with few if any independent sources and no claims to outstanding characteristics.--User:Namiba 15:19, 19 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Players of American football from Detroit

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Withdrawn. pending outcome of an RfC. (non-admin closure) SportingFlyer T·C 14:39, 17 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: An overcategorisation - we only categorise people by their general occupation (sportspeople), not by their specific occupation (see [1] [2], WP:OCLOCATION, and for instance the broad categories at Category:People from St. Louis by occupation). There's currently no consensus on whether a limited exception exists for cities where this might be defining, but after a search, I don't see any reason why Detroit would be eligible for this exception for American football. SportingFlyer T·C 20:54, 16 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
A debate on this very topic just ended 6 days ago. There was no consensus in that wide-ranging discussion and there is no reason to believe that there will be now. The discussions you cite are from 2013.--User:Namiba 20:58, 16 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
This category was created two days ago, and is for a different sport entirely, and for a city where the location isn't a defining characteristic. The previous discussion closed as no consensus and wasn't a rubber stamp to start expanding these sorts of categories. SportingFlyer T·C 21:16, 16 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The same principal exists: there is no consensus for or against creating sport-city categories such as this one. I don't think targeting one category in a much larger tree (there are dozens of similar categories for cities in the United States and around the world) makes much sense. Rather than starting an endless series of deletion discussions for each of these categories, I propose that we have a wider-ranging discussion on occupation-city categories. If there was no consensus to delete Basketball players from Shkodër or Category:Basketball players from Los Angeles, I don't see why there would be a consensus to delete this category.--User:Namiba 21:30, 16 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I think it's completely different, but that's fine. I agree with the central discussion - I'm willing to withdraw this if you're willing to help set it up/stop the proliferation of these categories until we resolve it? If so let me know and I'll move the discussion to your talk page (or mine if you'd prefer.) SportingFlyer T·C 21:42, 16 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think either of our talk pages is the right place for such a forum. If you created a RFC at Wikipedia talk:Categorization, I think that would be the proper format. If that occurs, I will stop making new categories until the conclusion of that process.--User:Namiba 14:35, 17 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Cuban atheists

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Delete. (non-admin closure) William Allen Simpson (talk) 11:41, 13 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Currently only contains one article, Fidel Castro. Previously also contained Mariela Castro but that was cited to a poor source. Gbear605 (talk) 19:58, 16 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Physical properties

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge. Good Ol’factory (talk) 02:50, 26 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Depopulated, redundant category. —swpbT • go beyond • bad idea 19:11, 16 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Television series about suburbia

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:09, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Category with a serious subjectivity problem. The term "suburb" has two slightly different meanings -- it can be either a smaller town near but outside the city limits of a bigger city, or a residential neighbourhood in the city which is defined by detached single-family homes instead of row housing, condominiums or apartment complexes. But this category has the potential to collect almost any drama or comedy series about a family (The Simpsons?) who live in a detached home, regardless of whether it's set in a city neighbourhood, a smaller town in a big city's metropolitan area, a small rural town that doesn't fit any definition of "suburb" at all or a completely unspecified location that just seems suburban -- and furthermore, even for the shows that are clearly set in suburbia, it still isn't always patently obvious that the show is necessarily about that. (Is Santa Clarita Diet about suburbia per se, or is it about a living-dead zombie woman who eats people and merely happens to live in a suburb?) So this isn't so much a category with clear and unambiguous inclusion criteria, as a recipe for subjective editwarring. Bearcat (talk) 15:29, 16 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Just because you're not aware of edit-warring doesn't mean it hasn't happened. I examined this precisely because a show you've probably never heard of was added to it within the last 24 hours despite being set in a small town that meets no normal definition of "suburbia" at all. Bearcat (talk) 17:00, 16 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
A huge number of cats have had articles incorrectly added to them. When that happens, they should be removed. In the large majority of cases the best response is to remove them from the cat rather than delete the cat.
Have any articles been repeatedly added & removed from this cat? If not, it's unlikely that such edit-warring will start after over 6y. Jim Michael (talk) 18:37, 16 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
An article can only be removed from an incorrect category if somebody notices that it's an incorrect category — meaning if the show I caught hadn't been literally set in my own grandparents' hometown, meaning I've been there and know that it's a small rural farm town and not a suburb of anything, its incorrectness would not have been noticed. And that's precisely why we don't do categories for subjective and undefined inclusion criteria where inclusion comes down to opinion and/or interpretation rather than clearly objective facts that can be verified. And I don't need to have monitored the category for six years and kept a permanent list of every show that might ever have been added to it erroneously: I need only show one example of incorrect use to demonstrate that there's a problem. There may very well be several other shows still in the category which don't actually belong there — I can't speak to that at all, because I'm not familiar with all of the shows in it, and can only speak to shows I know (which is why I also took issue with The Simpsons and Santa Clarita Diet.) Bearcat (talk) 19:14, 16 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
An article being wrongly placed in a cat is very common & doesn't indicate that the cat should be deleted.
The Simpsons is often described as being set in suburbia, being about a suburban family etc., so many sources think it is defining. The Simpsons house states in its Design section that the house is suburban. Jim Michael (talk) 22:07, 16 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Being set in a suburb and being about suburbia are two different things. postdlf (talk) 23:23, 16 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Set in has a clearer & broader definition, which is why I suggest it be renamed accordingly. Jim Michael (talk) 11:05, 17 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"Common" or not, it's unacceptable and must always be caught and fixed immediately, because it reflects badly on the project if we fail to do that. Bearcat (talk) 04:26, 17 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
That's a good point. This subcat is nominated for a second time, but neither the parent cat you mention - nor either of the other subcats - have ever gone to CfD. Everyone in this discussion who wants it deleted has put forward arguments which are about scope/definition &/or whether it's defining. None have said anything that's specific to its medium. A TV show's setting is no more or less relevant &/or defining than a film or novel's setting. Either all the cats should be discussed or none should. Jim Michael (talk) 22:07, 16 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • No objection if somebody wants to, but I'm in the middle of a project and cannot take it on myself. Bearcat (talk) 04:31, 17 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you - I extend my renaming suggestion to all of them. That is, to change about to set in, thereby making the scope & definition clearer. I think it is in some cases defining. A Wikipedia article or even a dissertation with a title such as Suburbia in fiction could be written.
Whether they're kept, deleted or renamed, it's clear that the same should happen to all of them, because none of the arguments put forward here are medium-specific. Jim Michael (talk) 17:21, 17 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete all as non-defining. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 22:36, 17 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete all as trivial and non-defining. If kept, support rename to "set in". Marcocapelle (talk) 09:33, 18 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:National Basketball Association over-the-air television broadcasters

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:07, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Propose deleting Category:National Basketball Association over-the-air television broadcasters (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: Non-defining category for the member articles. Leave this to the list, List of historical NBA over-the-air television broadcasters. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 08:53, 16 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:American Basketball Association flagship television stations

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:06, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Propose deleting Category:American Basketball Association flagship television stations (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: Non-defining category; league hasn't existed since 1975–76. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 08:52, 16 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:The WB network affiliates

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:05, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Former television network affiliation is a non-defining category. List of former WB affiliates should be upmerged into Category:The WB; the station article can just have it removed. Similar Category:Former UPN affiliates and Category:Former WB affiliates were deleted in June. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 08:51, 16 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:American Football Association (1978–1983)

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename (non-admin closure) Marcocapelle (talk) 18:38, 28 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: The article was recently moved without discussion from American Football Association (1978–1983) to American Football Association (1977–1983). I propose renaming the category to match. Good Ol’factory (talk) 02:00, 16 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Education sites affected by shootings in the United States

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. (It looks to me like these are already listed at List of school shootings in the United States.) Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:04, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Propose deleting Category:Education sites affected by shootings in the United States (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: Per WP:NONDEF, being involved with a school shooting is not defining for any of these institutions. User:Namiba 01:49, 16 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Homeland War Memorial Medal recipients

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:02, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Propose Deleting/Listifying Category:Homeland War Memorial Medal recipients
Nominator's rationale: Per WP:NONDEFINING (WP:OVERLAPCAT and WP:OCAWARD)
According to the main article, over 400,000 of the Homeland War Memorial Medal have been issued which is remarkable since Croatia has just over 4 million total residents. The medal is a campaign medal for all Croatian participants in the Croatian War of Independence, a kind of award we've consistently found non-defining. There wasn't a list so I created one right here in the main article although, given the potential size, that list may become unwieldy. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:05, 16 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Recipients of the Royal Order of Cambodia

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:01, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Propose Deleting/Listifying Category:Recipients of the Royal Order of Cambodia
Nominator's rationale: Per WP:PERFCAT and WP:OCAWARD (WP:NONDEFINING)
When foreign leaders visit the royal family of Cambodia, or vice versa, the Royal Order of Cambodia is given out as souvenir to commemorate the visit. Leopold II of Belgium, Hamengkubuwono VIII and Charles de Gaulle are not remotely defined by this award. (Per the article, there was intent to also issue this award locally but the only Cambodian people we have are a few royals and high ranking officials and, of those, 8 mention the award in passing—1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8—and two not at all—9, 10—so it's not defining for them either.) The recipients are already listified here in the main article. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:05, 16 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
More